Now to tie together some of the themes I have been writing
about of late.... of having hope, the human condition,
of the actions that help one reach the spiritual realm......
If there has been a thematic feeling during the last 124 years,
it has been the alienation of human beings.... and what have we
become alienated from? Well, practically everything... the list of
things that we are not alienated from is far shorter than the list
of things we are alienated from...
We human beings have become problematic to ourselves....
part of the evidence for this belief lies in our inability to
define, to work out what is the essential human experiences....
my thread about ''essential human experiences'' for example....
if aliens from space were to ask us, what is the essential human
experience, what would we say? and its clear we have no answers for
this question.......
Unlike many societies before us, we have no idea what it means to
be human.....a human being is?..... the Greeks for example, spent
much time on this very question.... a human being is? The Romans,
not so much.... the entire Medieval age was one long search for
what it means to be human.... and their answer was, to be human,
is to be in the service of god.... an answer that impacts us to this very day....
and the Rennaissance, a rebirth, what was reborn? An understanding of
what it means to be human.... Humanity apart from religious considerations....
that was the Rennaissance... considering human beings apart from
religious considerations... think of a book like Robinson Crusoe....
it is one long exploration of the human condition (yes, it was published
in 1719, but it is still an exploration of the human condition)
and the Enlightenment? another study of what it means to be human....
if we strip human beings of their isms and ideologies, what is left?
the last 500 years has been one long working out the human condition
in regards to isms and ideologies.... for example, having a democracy
tells us that human beings are one thing, a dictatorship tells us
that human beings are something else..... both our political
and economic ideologies are commentaries on what it means to be
human..... capitalism says one thing about the human condition
and communism says another.... and who is right?
we, who are alive in 2024, what does it mean to be human?
in our seeking out the trinkets of existence, we have lost hope
and meaning and an understanding of what it means to be human.....
for the seeking of the trinkets, of seeking out wealth, fame, power,
material possessions and titles, we have lost ourselves.......
we are alienated from ourselves, our state, our society, our isms
and any understanding of what it means to be human.....
for instance, the seeking of wealth, in capitalism, we
are dehumanized......we are devalued... and this nihilism,
and that is exactly what nihilism is, the devaluation of
human beings and their values, has gone down to our
very soul.....we have become alienated from each other
from the seeking of the trinkets of existence....
for I can only connect to you, based on money, fame,
power, material possessions or titles... there is no other
point of connection between us human beings...
we are, as has been noted before, isolated atomic beings..
nothing more than atoms moving on planets earth... we are
detached from each other in our pursuit of wealth and material
possessions..... our alienation from each other comes from
the fact that we are competing with each other for a very
small piece of the economic pie.....
Recall that over half the wealth of planet earth is held
by roughly 5000 people... and we are competing for a sliver
of the rest of the leftover wealth.... that is in part the alienation
of human beings from each other due to the atomization of
human economic activity.... as is the atomization of human beings
due to political and social pressures.... we are not encouraged nor
are we even allowed to connect to other human beings...
think of the breakroom in our modern world... in my breakroom
we might have up to 12 people in it, and all 12 are connected
to their cell phones, playing games or talking to family or watching
video's..... are any of the 12 connecting to the other by talking?
Nah, talking, connecting to other people is so 20th century.....
which leads us to our technology, which is just another brick in
the wall...... think of our technology as another means of
disconnecting from each other....... of disconnecting from
our society, our state....I have been up for several hours and have
yet talked to anyone at all.... and that is the reality of our day....
we are isolated, atomic individuals who simply race around the
universe without every connecting to another.....
and this lack of connection is, in part, why we have lost
hope in ourselves..... hope is faith that the world will
change in some fashion that helps us..... but who is talking about
the positive hope of change today? No one..... that the future can be
brighter/better than today is not even held to be possible.....
it is this hope we are lacking, that the future is going to be better
than today......and I personally believe that the future will be
better than today, if, IF we work to make that happen.....
another side effect of our modern existence is the passive nature
of human beings....as JFK said, it is not what society/state
can do for us, but what we can do for the society/state.....
we have lost hope, and it has, in part, it has help to create
the alienation and despair we have today in our modern world.....
the malaise of our times, the one that has lasted since
Jimmy Carter famous speech, that malaise, is one of
the loss of hope and the possibilities of tomorrow.....
what is possible for me to achieve? I can become, as
a possibility, one of the greatest philosophers of all time....
and that goal drives me, even haunts me..... personally,
I feel that time is running out for me..... age will finally catch
me and prevent me from making any more progress in
my philosophy...... but still, still I run like the wind to
keep ahead of forces that will silence me....
a cousin of mine passed away a couple of days ago,
and I am, as always reminded that my time is limited....
and I am not given hope in this... knowing that my
time is so limited....
and for these reasons and many more, we have become problematic
to ourselves.... we have become alienated from ourselves and each
other......the atomic nature of our state, our society, socially,
politically, economically, philosophically, has contributed to us
human beings not having any sense of what it means to be human....
I am an atom... as are you..... so, what connects us to each other,
to our state, our society, our civilization?
Kropotkin
atomistic existence
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
what has been lost in our modern society, modern state has
been the ARTS... for the ARTS are a means of connections between
human beings.... I read Robinson Crusoe and you read the same book
and we are connected by that book.... I can recall in high school,
and the miniseries Roots was on.... and today, today we cannot understand
the power that miniseries had on our society.......it was a shared event
that connected us to the past, our shared past.... and it was a
connection that I feel to this very day...... a TV series 47 years ago....
and that is the power of ART.... of making connections.... and something
that we lack today because we lack ART in our lives today..... ART which
is a method of connecting us to each other and to our society/state....
when was the last time you saw ART that moved you, connected you
to another? and we are the poorer for that lack of connections.....
and that is the modern question, how do we reestablish our connections
to each other? to our state, to our society?
the old values, the isms and ideologies that at one time, created
connections between ourselves, they have no more value because
they no longer connect us to each other.... the isms of nationalism
or of religions, the loss of faith in our modern world.... that is
a loss of connection to each other......the loss of hope,
which is another shared connection to each other......
I am an atom, and you are an atom.... on what grounds are
we going to connect to each other?
Kropotkin
been the ARTS... for the ARTS are a means of connections between
human beings.... I read Robinson Crusoe and you read the same book
and we are connected by that book.... I can recall in high school,
and the miniseries Roots was on.... and today, today we cannot understand
the power that miniseries had on our society.......it was a shared event
that connected us to the past, our shared past.... and it was a
connection that I feel to this very day...... a TV series 47 years ago....
and that is the power of ART.... of making connections.... and something
that we lack today because we lack ART in our lives today..... ART which
is a method of connecting us to each other and to our society/state....
when was the last time you saw ART that moved you, connected you
to another? and we are the poorer for that lack of connections.....
and that is the modern question, how do we reestablish our connections
to each other? to our state, to our society?
the old values, the isms and ideologies that at one time, created
connections between ourselves, they have no more value because
they no longer connect us to each other.... the isms of nationalism
or of religions, the loss of faith in our modern world.... that is
a loss of connection to each other......the loss of hope,
which is another shared connection to each other......
I am an atom, and you are an atom.... on what grounds are
we going to connect to each other?
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
can we imagine what our world looks like without connections?
I can... and you can to if you were to understand our friend
Gary Childress.... what is my ''diagnosis'' of him?
He is simply someone who has lost his connections to the state/
society/ himself... he is lost because he is unable to
connect to his surroundings.... is he mentally unstable? not
at all.... he is a modern man who is facing un unprecedented
world where our connections to each other has been torn asunder.....
and he is reacting exactly like he should be.... given the current
situation..... if nothing else, Gary is really our future selves....
unless we can make some connections to ourselves, to our society/state
and to the world around us... Gary is an honest person.... one
who admits to those ''failings"' but those ''failings'' are nothing more
than the loss of connections that we must have to survive the
world..... I have talked in the past about our biological
and psychological necessities that we all have.... food, water,
shelter, and the psychological necessities we must have...
of safety/security, of the esteem of others, and of love...
and what exactly is love? Love is a deep connection we feel
toward another.... it is this love that brings us much of
the human society/state..... for our love is the connection
that ties much of the human society.... take away love from
the state, and it is much reduced.....it is a much smaller state
when love is taken away from us..... property rights, wills,
legal responsibilities, marriages and love take up much of
the legal and political systems actions.....
it is our connections that create much of the political and social
society we live in..... and if we were to lose those connections,
then what does our state/society look like? I would suggest that
our modern world is exactly what a state without connections would look
like.....
I am an atom, and you are an atom.... how are we to connect?
Kropotkin
I can... and you can to if you were to understand our friend
Gary Childress.... what is my ''diagnosis'' of him?
He is simply someone who has lost his connections to the state/
society/ himself... he is lost because he is unable to
connect to his surroundings.... is he mentally unstable? not
at all.... he is a modern man who is facing un unprecedented
world where our connections to each other has been torn asunder.....
and he is reacting exactly like he should be.... given the current
situation..... if nothing else, Gary is really our future selves....
unless we can make some connections to ourselves, to our society/state
and to the world around us... Gary is an honest person.... one
who admits to those ''failings"' but those ''failings'' are nothing more
than the loss of connections that we must have to survive the
world..... I have talked in the past about our biological
and psychological necessities that we all have.... food, water,
shelter, and the psychological necessities we must have...
of safety/security, of the esteem of others, and of love...
and what exactly is love? Love is a deep connection we feel
toward another.... it is this love that brings us much of
the human society/state..... for our love is the connection
that ties much of the human society.... take away love from
the state, and it is much reduced.....it is a much smaller state
when love is taken away from us..... property rights, wills,
legal responsibilities, marriages and love take up much of
the legal and political systems actions.....
it is our connections that create much of the political and social
society we live in..... and if we were to lose those connections,
then what does our state/society look like? I would suggest that
our modern world is exactly what a state without connections would look
like.....
I am an atom, and you are an atom.... how are we to connect?
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
and what of our other lost connections?
For example, that of nature......no matter how hard we try,
we cannot escape the fact that we are only a few generations away of
living off the land.... the modern idea of the frontier, that America
had a ''west'', was officially gone in 1893.... that is the turning point
of when America turned from a rural, agricultural society
to becoming an urban, city based society........
and we have lived uneasily between the two ever since.....
are we to hold rural values or are we to hold urban values?
that is the entire debate between the left and the right......
which set of values are we to hold to?
Human beings have had a long history within nature....
for we were becoming human within nature, a million years
of being/becoming human within nature....
to walk in nature is to reconnect with that long past of being human......
but our technical, urban based society no longer has any feeling for,
toward nature... and we have lost something important in that loss.....
for it is another type of alienation that we suffer from..... the primal
loss of what made us human..... our being within nature.....
not separate or apart from, but being within nature that we must
reconnect to..... for it is as much a part of us as love and esteem
is to us....... that connection to the nature that and was our womb
and our place of birth, and our home for a million plus years......
we can no more disconnect from our nature's past then we can stop
breathing or stop our heart from beating....
and thus, we have become disconnected and alienated from
ourselves because we are no longer connected to nature....
and that is our great loss..... this disconnection to nature....
Kropotkin
For example, that of nature......no matter how hard we try,
we cannot escape the fact that we are only a few generations away of
living off the land.... the modern idea of the frontier, that America
had a ''west'', was officially gone in 1893.... that is the turning point
of when America turned from a rural, agricultural society
to becoming an urban, city based society........
and we have lived uneasily between the two ever since.....
are we to hold rural values or are we to hold urban values?
that is the entire debate between the left and the right......
which set of values are we to hold to?
Human beings have had a long history within nature....
for we were becoming human within nature, a million years
of being/becoming human within nature....
to walk in nature is to reconnect with that long past of being human......
but our technical, urban based society no longer has any feeling for,
toward nature... and we have lost something important in that loss.....
for it is another type of alienation that we suffer from..... the primal
loss of what made us human..... our being within nature.....
not separate or apart from, but being within nature that we must
reconnect to..... for it is as much a part of us as love and esteem
is to us....... that connection to the nature that and was our womb
and our place of birth, and our home for a million plus years......
we can no more disconnect from our nature's past then we can stop
breathing or stop our heart from beating....
and thus, we have become disconnected and alienated from
ourselves because we are no longer connected to nature....
and that is our great loss..... this disconnection to nature....
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
to be alienated is to be ''estrange'' from....
Estrange: cause (someone) to be no longer close or
affectionate to someone... Alienate....
and we are estranged from each other, ourselves, from the state/society,
from isms and ideologies and from a spiritual aspect.....
If I were to pick a word outside of alienation to describe the modern
experience, I would have picked estranged....
we are no longer close to that which gave us hope and comfort
in the past.... isms, religions/god, institutions, even love is
estranged from us because we pursue the trinkets of existence
before we seek out love...... thinking that the trinkets of
existence will provide us with love..... they won't...
I am an atom.. you are an atom.... we are estranged from each other....
how do we connect?
Kropotkin
Estrange: cause (someone) to be no longer close or
affectionate to someone... Alienate....
and we are estranged from each other, ourselves, from the state/society,
from isms and ideologies and from a spiritual aspect.....
If I were to pick a word outside of alienation to describe the modern
experience, I would have picked estranged....
we are no longer close to that which gave us hope and comfort
in the past.... isms, religions/god, institutions, even love is
estranged from us because we pursue the trinkets of existence
before we seek out love...... thinking that the trinkets of
existence will provide us with love..... they won't...
I am an atom.. you are an atom.... we are estranged from each other....
how do we connect?
Kropotkin
Re: atomistic existence
Well certainly not smart phones and Youtube.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 5:32 pm
If there has been a thematic feeling during the last 124 years,
it has been the alienation of human beings.... and what have we
become alienated from?
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
One of the threads of great interest to me has to be
the ''''has philosophy lost its way''..... and my answer is
something different.... I think that the eternal questions that
haunt us, still exists....right from the beginning, we have had
the same questions about what it means to be human.......
but this is important, that the answers depend on the environment
the question is asked in........ that the meaning of human existence differs
from one state/society to another.....from one environment to another......
if the questions from the beginning are the same, then the answers by
say Socrates or Plato, no longer work for us... and hasn't in a couple of
thousands of years....the eternal questions are the same, it is us that
has changed.....
In my youth, I read the book ""Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance''
I am guessing in high school... it was gobblygook to me at the time....
it had no meaning or significance to me at the time... I wasn't ready for it....
I reread the book a decade or so later, after a fair amount of philosophy readings...
and this time, the book made sense and was quite appealing... and I read the
book about a decade later, perhaps in my late thirties... and it was another
experience altogether.... the book struck me as simplistic and really
didn't have anything to really say to me.....the book itself didn't change
one iota, I change and in doing so, I came to evaluate the book very
differently each time I read it......
and now we return the thread of ''has philosophy lost it's way?"
and the answer becomes clearer... it wasn't philosophy that
has changed, the eternal questions are still there... it is us that
has changed... in reading books, we, due to our modern sensibilities...
we read books differently today...... We read the books of Plato with
very different eyes than those who read Plato during his age....
we have 500 years of the various revolutions in our past...
the scientific, the political, the economic, the social and
of course, the philosophical revolutions......
the failure of ours comes from our reading the eternal books with
their eternal questions, but we are reading those books with modern eyes...
and the answers are now quite different than we thought, mainly because
we are in a very different place today..... Most around write like there
was no history behind us... that there was no World Wars, no Holocaust,
no Vietnam, no Watergate and no 9/11.......
that is what creates the modern problems of philosophy.... philosophers
assume that the past didn't exist.... that the problems created by 9/11,
for example, have magically disappeared... they haven't....
Philosophers and philosophy have a collective amnesia about
the past.....and you cannot write about philosophy without some,
at a minimum, acknowledge of the past....
philosophy has failed and it will continue to fail until we
answers the questions of the past..... in our own modern
idioms..... what does it mean to be human? that is an eternal
question, but it has and must have, a modern slant to that question
for it to make any sense to us..... the questions remain the same, it
is the answers that change......because we have changed....
our environment has changed, and it will continue to change...
and we must account for that in our philosophies of tomorrow.....
what does being human mean in our modern technological age?
that is the question, isn't it?
Kropotkin
the ''''has philosophy lost its way''..... and my answer is
something different.... I think that the eternal questions that
haunt us, still exists....right from the beginning, we have had
the same questions about what it means to be human.......
but this is important, that the answers depend on the environment
the question is asked in........ that the meaning of human existence differs
from one state/society to another.....from one environment to another......
if the questions from the beginning are the same, then the answers by
say Socrates or Plato, no longer work for us... and hasn't in a couple of
thousands of years....the eternal questions are the same, it is us that
has changed.....
In my youth, I read the book ""Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance''
I am guessing in high school... it was gobblygook to me at the time....
it had no meaning or significance to me at the time... I wasn't ready for it....
I reread the book a decade or so later, after a fair amount of philosophy readings...
and this time, the book made sense and was quite appealing... and I read the
book about a decade later, perhaps in my late thirties... and it was another
experience altogether.... the book struck me as simplistic and really
didn't have anything to really say to me.....the book itself didn't change
one iota, I change and in doing so, I came to evaluate the book very
differently each time I read it......
and now we return the thread of ''has philosophy lost it's way?"
and the answer becomes clearer... it wasn't philosophy that
has changed, the eternal questions are still there... it is us that
has changed... in reading books, we, due to our modern sensibilities...
we read books differently today...... We read the books of Plato with
very different eyes than those who read Plato during his age....
we have 500 years of the various revolutions in our past...
the scientific, the political, the economic, the social and
of course, the philosophical revolutions......
the failure of ours comes from our reading the eternal books with
their eternal questions, but we are reading those books with modern eyes...
and the answers are now quite different than we thought, mainly because
we are in a very different place today..... Most around write like there
was no history behind us... that there was no World Wars, no Holocaust,
no Vietnam, no Watergate and no 9/11.......
that is what creates the modern problems of philosophy.... philosophers
assume that the past didn't exist.... that the problems created by 9/11,
for example, have magically disappeared... they haven't....
Philosophers and philosophy have a collective amnesia about
the past.....and you cannot write about philosophy without some,
at a minimum, acknowledge of the past....
philosophy has failed and it will continue to fail until we
answers the questions of the past..... in our own modern
idioms..... what does it mean to be human? that is an eternal
question, but it has and must have, a modern slant to that question
for it to make any sense to us..... the questions remain the same, it
is the answers that change......because we have changed....
our environment has changed, and it will continue to change...
and we must account for that in our philosophies of tomorrow.....
what does being human mean in our modern technological age?
that is the question, isn't it?
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
we can see the effects of this disconnect, this alienation of
human beings from their state/society/values/ and even each other,
within the actions of people within the state/society.......
not that violence has risen in America, the stats are quite clear
that violence has gone down in America over the last few years....
no, I am referring to the acts like shoplifting in America.....
and why has specifically has actions like shoplifting dramatically
increased? Increasingly, the relationship between corporation
and the individuals, has become ever more strained....
there is no connection between our corporations and the
individuals.... corporate America has begun to reap what it
has sown by corporate America devaluing human beings in its
dealings with its workers and consumers...... corporate America
has made it clear it doesn't give a rat's ass about us as human beings
nor as consumers.... we are simply a means to an end which is profits.....
it is easy to steal from a corporation because the corporation has
no interest in people as people.....we are simply cash cows to be milked....
nothing more....and corporate America doesn't even pretend anymore about
caring about people..... and this has caused alienation between people
and corporate America......there is very little connection between
corporate America and the people it serves.... and thus making it very easy
for people to steal from stores.... if the corporation doesn't give a shit,
why should we, so thinks the people..... and they are right....
and the same goes for government and the connection between
the government and the people it serves... there is clearly an
disconnect, an alienation between our government and the people.....
and alienation that seems to have gotten worse as the years have gone
on and the source material for this alienation comes from events in
the past... From Vietnam, to Watergate, to Raygun betraying his
oath of office with Iran-Contra.. and 9/11 and past that to Abu Gharib
and into today......with IQ45 quite clearly having passed state secrets
to his butt buddy Putin....and few if any Republicans seem to care.....
having made it clear that the right wing of America prefers Putin to
democrats/liberals.... and that loss of connection has severely
damaged America...
and what will return us to having connections to each other and to
our government and institutions? What will connect us?
first things first, is that under our current economic premise, that
we engage in the pursuit of wealth, individually..... that our economic
system of capitalism demands that we don't act collectively, or together....
under capitalism, we are atoms, fighting other atoms for what little
money exists for us..... recall that 500 people own over half the
wealth of planet earth... and that leaves very little money for the rest of us....
and this income inequality is one of the reasons, one of many, that
we must walk away from capitalism and begin again, economically.....
the connection we have with people, is a transactional monetary connection...
I hand you money and you hand me money......that is our entire connection
to each other.....you work for money, and then you hand that money over
to others, government and the like...... money, colored pieces of paper
becomes the glue to our society/our state..... and nothing is more
transitory than money....money is the true ''ad hoc'' of existence... of the
moment.....and within that transactional passing of money, where
are the connections that tie us, bind us together as human beings?
if there was a system that was anti-connection, it is capitalism...
the very nature of capitalism prevents people from connecting to
each other.....outside of transactional events like payday....
You want to make America great, we have to return to making
connections to each other, not by the exchange of money, but
by connecting as human beings...not by putting the ten commandments
into schools, but by having a real connection to each other, to the state/
society, to our places of businesses and to having a connection to ourselves.....
as long as we think our value as a human being is to be a consumer,
a producer, a worker, we shall lack connections to ourselves and each
other.... I am worth more than my bank account... as are you.....
let us try to act upon that.....
Kropotkin
human beings from their state/society/values/ and even each other,
within the actions of people within the state/society.......
not that violence has risen in America, the stats are quite clear
that violence has gone down in America over the last few years....
no, I am referring to the acts like shoplifting in America.....
and why has specifically has actions like shoplifting dramatically
increased? Increasingly, the relationship between corporation
and the individuals, has become ever more strained....
there is no connection between our corporations and the
individuals.... corporate America has begun to reap what it
has sown by corporate America devaluing human beings in its
dealings with its workers and consumers...... corporate America
has made it clear it doesn't give a rat's ass about us as human beings
nor as consumers.... we are simply a means to an end which is profits.....
it is easy to steal from a corporation because the corporation has
no interest in people as people.....we are simply cash cows to be milked....
nothing more....and corporate America doesn't even pretend anymore about
caring about people..... and this has caused alienation between people
and corporate America......there is very little connection between
corporate America and the people it serves.... and thus making it very easy
for people to steal from stores.... if the corporation doesn't give a shit,
why should we, so thinks the people..... and they are right....
and the same goes for government and the connection between
the government and the people it serves... there is clearly an
disconnect, an alienation between our government and the people.....
and alienation that seems to have gotten worse as the years have gone
on and the source material for this alienation comes from events in
the past... From Vietnam, to Watergate, to Raygun betraying his
oath of office with Iran-Contra.. and 9/11 and past that to Abu Gharib
and into today......with IQ45 quite clearly having passed state secrets
to his butt buddy Putin....and few if any Republicans seem to care.....
having made it clear that the right wing of America prefers Putin to
democrats/liberals.... and that loss of connection has severely
damaged America...
and what will return us to having connections to each other and to
our government and institutions? What will connect us?
first things first, is that under our current economic premise, that
we engage in the pursuit of wealth, individually..... that our economic
system of capitalism demands that we don't act collectively, or together....
under capitalism, we are atoms, fighting other atoms for what little
money exists for us..... recall that 500 people own over half the
wealth of planet earth... and that leaves very little money for the rest of us....
and this income inequality is one of the reasons, one of many, that
we must walk away from capitalism and begin again, economically.....
the connection we have with people, is a transactional monetary connection...
I hand you money and you hand me money......that is our entire connection
to each other.....you work for money, and then you hand that money over
to others, government and the like...... money, colored pieces of paper
becomes the glue to our society/our state..... and nothing is more
transitory than money....money is the true ''ad hoc'' of existence... of the
moment.....and within that transactional passing of money, where
are the connections that tie us, bind us together as human beings?
if there was a system that was anti-connection, it is capitalism...
the very nature of capitalism prevents people from connecting to
each other.....outside of transactional events like payday....
You want to make America great, we have to return to making
connections to each other, not by the exchange of money, but
by connecting as human beings...not by putting the ten commandments
into schools, but by having a real connection to each other, to the state/
society, to our places of businesses and to having a connection to ourselves.....
as long as we think our value as a human being is to be a consumer,
a producer, a worker, we shall lack connections to ourselves and each
other.... I am worth more than my bank account... as are you.....
let us try to act upon that.....
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
lines from a book....
'''I know no more where I belong''
and the question arises, where do I belong? Hence we see
the blind terror of the religious because they have tossed in
their lot with god and religions... and given the events of the
last century, can we even pretend there is a god after
the World Wars and Holocaust and Abu Gharib.... and the religous
blame man/human beings for their being evil, and yet, somehow,
god escapes blame for the acts of evil in the world.... it is always
human beings fault, never god's fault for evil....
and how can I hold faith with a god who is never at fault or
to blame for the evil in the world?
and as long as we have god to account for us, we cannot
begin to take the blame ourselves for the evil in the world....
either evil is god fault or it is ours..... we can't have it both ways....
as the religious try to do....and this inability to assign blame
for the universe is just another way to avoid accountability
which is another means of connection.... the act of
becoming accountable for our actions is the act of connection.....
for it is rare that true evil is the work of one person..... true
evil, such as the Holocaust and Jim Crow laws takes a lot of
people to act, to make them work..... it is not the work of
one that allow the Holocaust...and taking accountability,
responsibility for that action requires many if not all.....which
is why denial of the holocaust is a crime in Germany.... any sort of
denial is to avoid accountability or responsibility for their actions......
But here in America, we have failed to take accountability, responsibility for
our own genocide....that of the Native American...and what is the act of
genocide? that is an act where a group of people are deemed to be of
little or no value.... hence are candidates for genocide...
and any attempts to devalue or dehumanizing human beings can
lead us to similar acts of genocide..... thus, the right wing call that
immigrants are not equal human beings, allow us to commit our own acts
of evil against them....in our calling immigrants inhuman, we
denigrate them and make it easy to commit acts that are evil against
them.....
so, one path to connecting to each other begin by accepting,
acknowledging that human beings are equal... of equal value
and equal worth.... and this step helps us to avoid another
holocaust, another genocide.... this act of accepting human
beings are equal, is a first step to reconnecting to others.....
rejecting people as not being equal, that is a disconnection
from others...tolerance and equality are steps to our reconnecting
to each other..... but only first steps....
Kropotkin
'''I know no more where I belong''
and the question arises, where do I belong? Hence we see
the blind terror of the religious because they have tossed in
their lot with god and religions... and given the events of the
last century, can we even pretend there is a god after
the World Wars and Holocaust and Abu Gharib.... and the religous
blame man/human beings for their being evil, and yet, somehow,
god escapes blame for the acts of evil in the world.... it is always
human beings fault, never god's fault for evil....
and how can I hold faith with a god who is never at fault or
to blame for the evil in the world?
and as long as we have god to account for us, we cannot
begin to take the blame ourselves for the evil in the world....
either evil is god fault or it is ours..... we can't have it both ways....
as the religious try to do....and this inability to assign blame
for the universe is just another way to avoid accountability
which is another means of connection.... the act of
becoming accountable for our actions is the act of connection.....
for it is rare that true evil is the work of one person..... true
evil, such as the Holocaust and Jim Crow laws takes a lot of
people to act, to make them work..... it is not the work of
one that allow the Holocaust...and taking accountability,
responsibility for that action requires many if not all.....which
is why denial of the holocaust is a crime in Germany.... any sort of
denial is to avoid accountability or responsibility for their actions......
But here in America, we have failed to take accountability, responsibility for
our own genocide....that of the Native American...and what is the act of
genocide? that is an act where a group of people are deemed to be of
little or no value.... hence are candidates for genocide...
and any attempts to devalue or dehumanizing human beings can
lead us to similar acts of genocide..... thus, the right wing call that
immigrants are not equal human beings, allow us to commit our own acts
of evil against them....in our calling immigrants inhuman, we
denigrate them and make it easy to commit acts that are evil against
them.....
so, one path to connecting to each other begin by accepting,
acknowledging that human beings are equal... of equal value
and equal worth.... and this step helps us to avoid another
holocaust, another genocide.... this act of accepting human
beings are equal, is a first step to reconnecting to others.....
rejecting people as not being equal, that is a disconnection
from others...tolerance and equality are steps to our reconnecting
to each other..... but only first steps....
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
In thinking about alienation, I was reflecting
on the political aspect of alienation.....
specifically in terms of dictatorships.....
In Germany after the first World War,
the rise of Hitler can be shown to occur because
of the widespread rise of alienation in Germany at that time.....
What is one way to overcome alienation? by attaching oneself
to a person, cause, event or idea..... We can also see this
in the rise of Mussolini which also occurred after the First World War...
I don't think that this is an accident.... when a country is gripped
by widespread alienation, I believe the natural result is to turn
to political dictatorship..... it gives or creates a cause
which allows one to connect to something.... and we
suggest that the rise of IQ45 stems from a widespread
alienation that exists in America today......the interesting thing
is that this alienation seems to, seems to bring about right wing
dictatorships..... the rise of communist China which came about
after the Second World War, seems to be an opposite answer to this....
but one of the things that seems to come about in widespread
alienation is the rise of dictatorships..... for now, we will hold
to alienation on both the left and the right.....althought historically,
widespread alienation seems to affect the right far more than the left.....
given that widespread alienation seems to be the fermenter of dictatorships...
we should contemplate the forces that has created this alienation....
we can see how World Wars can have that effect.... Perhaps the most
influential historical event in world history may have been the first World War....
much of our world today stems from the flow of history since the First World War......
the Russian Revolution which occurred in 1917/18, at the end of the First
World War seems to support the notion that widespread alienation seems
to drive much of what we see as current events......... that the Russian
people were completely alienated from the Russian state at that time,
cannot be denied.... and the rise of the left form of a dictatorship,
we might have been able to predict, given the real connection between
alienation and the rise of dictatorships.... for within alienation, also
brings about attempts to overcome alienation....
Human beings are not built to withstand much alienation before
we make or attempt to make changes that try to overcome this alienation.....
and I suspect that we will continue to be politically, socially, legally
and economically affected by our ongoing alienation..... from ourselves
to our state, to our society, to our economics, to the political and legal....
we will continue to destabilize until we overcome our alienations.....
and how do we overcome? as with any overcoming, we begin
with a reevaluation of values.... do we really hold these beliefs
or are our beliefs just vestiges of past beliefs that no longer hold
any value to us? Belief in god is one such belief that I hold is/has
been extremely damaging to us because it tears us away from
each other..... we focus on god or our own salvation...
and this creates atomistic values that separate us from
each other..... what do I care about my fellow man if all
I am concerned about is reaching heaven just for myself?
This drive to reach heaven turns us into individual atoms
seeking out our own goals... and the hell with everyone else.....
What do I care if Joe Blow reaches heaven.... or if he dies?
that doesn't impact me and my devote goal of reaching heaven......
the fact is that religion and belief in god.... atomizes us.....
separates us from each other because salvation is individually,
not collectively..... and hence we don't care if the state/society
is moral or immoral because all that matters is my own salvation...
that is my goal... what do I care about others? this creates
alienation in the state and the society..... it separates me from
others because my own goal of salvation can be hindered by others,
but not supported by others..... because they have their own agenda...
their own goals....their own path to salvation.....
so, the question here becomes this... how can we reach salvation
collectively, and not just individually? is this even possible?
Kropotkin
on the political aspect of alienation.....
specifically in terms of dictatorships.....
In Germany after the first World War,
the rise of Hitler can be shown to occur because
of the widespread rise of alienation in Germany at that time.....
What is one way to overcome alienation? by attaching oneself
to a person, cause, event or idea..... We can also see this
in the rise of Mussolini which also occurred after the First World War...
I don't think that this is an accident.... when a country is gripped
by widespread alienation, I believe the natural result is to turn
to political dictatorship..... it gives or creates a cause
which allows one to connect to something.... and we
suggest that the rise of IQ45 stems from a widespread
alienation that exists in America today......the interesting thing
is that this alienation seems to, seems to bring about right wing
dictatorships..... the rise of communist China which came about
after the Second World War, seems to be an opposite answer to this....
but one of the things that seems to come about in widespread
alienation is the rise of dictatorships..... for now, we will hold
to alienation on both the left and the right.....althought historically,
widespread alienation seems to affect the right far more than the left.....
given that widespread alienation seems to be the fermenter of dictatorships...
we should contemplate the forces that has created this alienation....
we can see how World Wars can have that effect.... Perhaps the most
influential historical event in world history may have been the first World War....
much of our world today stems from the flow of history since the First World War......
the Russian Revolution which occurred in 1917/18, at the end of the First
World War seems to support the notion that widespread alienation seems
to drive much of what we see as current events......... that the Russian
people were completely alienated from the Russian state at that time,
cannot be denied.... and the rise of the left form of a dictatorship,
we might have been able to predict, given the real connection between
alienation and the rise of dictatorships.... for within alienation, also
brings about attempts to overcome alienation....
Human beings are not built to withstand much alienation before
we make or attempt to make changes that try to overcome this alienation.....
and I suspect that we will continue to be politically, socially, legally
and economically affected by our ongoing alienation..... from ourselves
to our state, to our society, to our economics, to the political and legal....
we will continue to destabilize until we overcome our alienations.....
and how do we overcome? as with any overcoming, we begin
with a reevaluation of values.... do we really hold these beliefs
or are our beliefs just vestiges of past beliefs that no longer hold
any value to us? Belief in god is one such belief that I hold is/has
been extremely damaging to us because it tears us away from
each other..... we focus on god or our own salvation...
and this creates atomistic values that separate us from
each other..... what do I care about my fellow man if all
I am concerned about is reaching heaven just for myself?
This drive to reach heaven turns us into individual atoms
seeking out our own goals... and the hell with everyone else.....
What do I care if Joe Blow reaches heaven.... or if he dies?
that doesn't impact me and my devote goal of reaching heaven......
the fact is that religion and belief in god.... atomizes us.....
separates us from each other because salvation is individually,
not collectively..... and hence we don't care if the state/society
is moral or immoral because all that matters is my own salvation...
that is my goal... what do I care about others? this creates
alienation in the state and the society..... it separates me from
others because my own goal of salvation can be hindered by others,
but not supported by others..... because they have their own agenda...
their own goals....their own path to salvation.....
so, the question here becomes this... how can we reach salvation
collectively, and not just individually? is this even possible?
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
And this wouldn't be a Kropotkin thread if it didn't bring
in morals and ethical concerns....
thus, we get an Alienation and morality post......
we can best point out alienation and moral concerns with the
modern case of Abortion..... and those who oppose abortions....
the thesis on which anti-abortion activists operate on is simple,
Life is sacred thus abortions are against gods will.....
scratch any anti-abortionists long enough and eventually,
you will get a religious response to abortions....
whether they admit it or not, that is the bottom line objection
to abortions.... life is sacred.... and abortions are against one of
the ten commandments... thou shall not kill.......so far, Kropotkin,
I see nothing here that would suggest anything that might suggest
alienation or disconnection from the state or society, or even ourselves
in abortion rights..... the disconnect, the alienation of self comes
from one's justification of preventing abortion providers from providing
abortions...... the anti-abortionists, to whom life is sacred, has
in several instances, killed doctors who provide abortions....
anti-abortionists have bombed abortion clinics.... and anti-abortionists
have suggested that an adult who takes a minor across state line to
get an abortion, should get the death penalty.... and if you don't get
the disconnect within these sentences, congratulations...
you are probably anti-abortion....
and part of the moral failure here lies in the inability of those
who dictate morals and ethics, fail to see their own actions
and their own beliefs as being germane to the issue of life
being sacred... that they exclude their own values and actions
from being judged....this is a major disconnect from what they
do and what they believe in....they are alienated from
what they hold to be true and their own actions in this matter....
they will happily commit murder to end committing murder.... and they
don't/can't see that...... that is a disconnect from oneself....
they exclude themselves from a moral or ethical judgement
because it is vastly easier to judge others if one can pretend/assume
that your own judgement is above reproach...
or to put it another way... to make moral judgements of those who steal
all the while one is also stealing..... to escape any personal moral judgement
because the disconnect, the alienation one has to one's own feeling and
values....... it is a common human failing to exclude oneself from
any examination of moral values and judgements.....
to not even consider oneself in terms of the question of
right and wrong, but to examine others, to make moral, ethical
judgements of others while excluding oneself from the same moral,
ethical judgements.....
that is alienation 101......
and within that exclusion of oneself within moral judgements, lie
much of the problems that America faces today....... IQ45 and
his followers morally judge others, but will not judge themselves
in the exact same fashion..... hence part of the American crisis that
we face.... a question of the disconnect, the alienation of millions of
people from their own examination of their values and beliefs
all the while judging others......a disconnection that is tearing
America apart.....
Kropotkin
in morals and ethical concerns....
thus, we get an Alienation and morality post......
we can best point out alienation and moral concerns with the
modern case of Abortion..... and those who oppose abortions....
the thesis on which anti-abortion activists operate on is simple,
Life is sacred thus abortions are against gods will.....
scratch any anti-abortionists long enough and eventually,
you will get a religious response to abortions....
whether they admit it or not, that is the bottom line objection
to abortions.... life is sacred.... and abortions are against one of
the ten commandments... thou shall not kill.......so far, Kropotkin,
I see nothing here that would suggest anything that might suggest
alienation or disconnection from the state or society, or even ourselves
in abortion rights..... the disconnect, the alienation of self comes
from one's justification of preventing abortion providers from providing
abortions...... the anti-abortionists, to whom life is sacred, has
in several instances, killed doctors who provide abortions....
anti-abortionists have bombed abortion clinics.... and anti-abortionists
have suggested that an adult who takes a minor across state line to
get an abortion, should get the death penalty.... and if you don't get
the disconnect within these sentences, congratulations...
you are probably anti-abortion....
and part of the moral failure here lies in the inability of those
who dictate morals and ethics, fail to see their own actions
and their own beliefs as being germane to the issue of life
being sacred... that they exclude their own values and actions
from being judged....this is a major disconnect from what they
do and what they believe in....they are alienated from
what they hold to be true and their own actions in this matter....
they will happily commit murder to end committing murder.... and they
don't/can't see that...... that is a disconnect from oneself....
they exclude themselves from a moral or ethical judgement
because it is vastly easier to judge others if one can pretend/assume
that your own judgement is above reproach...
or to put it another way... to make moral judgements of those who steal
all the while one is also stealing..... to escape any personal moral judgement
because the disconnect, the alienation one has to one's own feeling and
values....... it is a common human failing to exclude oneself from
any examination of moral values and judgements.....
to not even consider oneself in terms of the question of
right and wrong, but to examine others, to make moral, ethical
judgements of others while excluding oneself from the same moral,
ethical judgements.....
that is alienation 101......
and within that exclusion of oneself within moral judgements, lie
much of the problems that America faces today....... IQ45 and
his followers morally judge others, but will not judge themselves
in the exact same fashion..... hence part of the American crisis that
we face.... a question of the disconnect, the alienation of millions of
people from their own examination of their values and beliefs
all the while judging others......a disconnection that is tearing
America apart.....
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
that our alienation, our disconnect has become so
extensive, that we don't/can't even see it anymore.....
it has become the heart of American politics, and the
business and legal and social practice in America today.....
the question is not are we alienated, disconnected, but
the question has become, can we even recognized our
alienation, our disconnect anymore... it has become so
ingrained in who we are, I don't think we can even see it
anymore....and the common defense these days will
be "Kropotkin, you are also alienated, disconnected''
as if that accusation will automatically exempt one
from any sort of examination of values or beliefs....
just accusing another of alienation will not excuse you
from being alienated yourself....
what to do? how do we reconnect, how do we end this widespread
alienation that has gripped the entire world?
Kropotkin
extensive, that we don't/can't even see it anymore.....
it has become the heart of American politics, and the
business and legal and social practice in America today.....
the question is not are we alienated, disconnected, but
the question has become, can we even recognized our
alienation, our disconnect anymore... it has become so
ingrained in who we are, I don't think we can even see it
anymore....and the common defense these days will
be "Kropotkin, you are also alienated, disconnected''
as if that accusation will automatically exempt one
from any sort of examination of values or beliefs....
just accusing another of alienation will not excuse you
from being alienated yourself....
what to do? how do we reconnect, how do we end this widespread
alienation that has gripped the entire world?
Kropotkin
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: atomistic existence
Kropotkin, what the fuck? No one cares about your babbling...
and I am not alienated, disconnected from anything, little less myself.....
If there was a word to describe our modern world,
that word would be alienation...the truth of the matter
is that our world is built on the creation of alienation....
our modern bureaucracies and institutions are practically
meant to disconnect, alienated us from each other and ourselves.....
the very act of attempting to communicate with a bureaucracy is
an act of alienation..... because we are forced to justify ourselves
to this bureaucracy... in any bureaucracy, we have too first of all,
be able to prove who we are, to even be able to talk to that
bureaucracy...... our very identity is in question in dealing
with a bureaucracy.... how is that not alienating?
and then to get what one is calling the bureaucracy for, is
problematic at best........ they have their rules and regulations
that prevent easy implementation of any actions that may be of benefit to
one...to get anything done in a bureaucracy is an exercise in
jumping through a vast number of hoops in hopes of getting
an acceptance of what one needs..... and there is no guarantee of
getting what one needs or wants..... bureaucracies and institutions
are designed to alienate one from oneself.... and from the society......
the question is not, am I alienated, but the question is, exactly
how deeply alienated am I? And for most people, they are so
deeply ingrained into being alienated, that they can't even
see or spot their real self....... and what can we do to make
change this situation of alienation from ourselves and the society
we live in?
Kropotkin
and I am not alienated, disconnected from anything, little less myself.....
If there was a word to describe our modern world,
that word would be alienation...the truth of the matter
is that our world is built on the creation of alienation....
our modern bureaucracies and institutions are practically
meant to disconnect, alienated us from each other and ourselves.....
the very act of attempting to communicate with a bureaucracy is
an act of alienation..... because we are forced to justify ourselves
to this bureaucracy... in any bureaucracy, we have too first of all,
be able to prove who we are, to even be able to talk to that
bureaucracy...... our very identity is in question in dealing
with a bureaucracy.... how is that not alienating?
and then to get what one is calling the bureaucracy for, is
problematic at best........ they have their rules and regulations
that prevent easy implementation of any actions that may be of benefit to
one...to get anything done in a bureaucracy is an exercise in
jumping through a vast number of hoops in hopes of getting
an acceptance of what one needs..... and there is no guarantee of
getting what one needs or wants..... bureaucracies and institutions
are designed to alienate one from oneself.... and from the society......
the question is not, am I alienated, but the question is, exactly
how deeply alienated am I? And for most people, they are so
deeply ingrained into being alienated, that they can't even
see or spot their real self....... and what can we do to make
change this situation of alienation from ourselves and the society
we live in?
Kropotkin