Was Hitler as bad as some make him out to be?

[Gary Childress]

Your professor said to avoid Hitler? Well that's good advice, but also kinda unnecessary. He's been dead for a while now, you aren't gonna run into him at the grocery store

Haha.

[Harbal]

A post made a while back in another thread still has me thinking about it.

In my opinion, Hitler is NOT someone we ought to sympathize with. We really ought to steer clear of what happened in Nazi Germany. Why? Because there were "concentration" camps and Germany invaded many countries unprovoked. Hitler was Hillter and he was not good. Full stop. End of story. Can we move on now?

Aren't you interested in what was going on in Hitler's head, and why? And how he was able to attract massive support, and get himself into such a position of power. Shouldn't we try to understand what happened in Nazi Germany, so we can recognise the signs of it happening again somewhere?

Can't say I'm interested in those things. No.

They fascinate me.

[Harbal]

I oppose Hitler too. Sympathy and opposition aren't mutually exclusive for me.

I oppose murderers, but I'm sure there are many murders who have led lives it would be hard not to feel sorry for.

If they're in prison, I'm sure they should stay there. They can have some sympathy anyway.

When I was going to school growing up, one of my philosophy professors, Thelma Lavine, basically stated in not uncertain terms in one of my classes with her that Hitler and Nazi Germany are the utmost examples of evil in our time and to be avoided.

It isn't "evil", Gary, it's human psychology, and the more we understand it, the better. Thinking of it as evil, or not thinking about it at all, leaves us defenceless against it.

[Age]

A post made a while back in another thread still has me thinking about it.

In my opinion, Hitler is NOT someone we ought to sympathize with. We really ought to steer clear of what happened in Nazi Germany. Why? Because there were "concentration" camps and Germany invaded many countries unprovoked. Hitler was Hillter and he was not good. Full stop. End of story. Can we move on now?

No.

And especially no when you keep bringing up the very thing, itself.

[Atla]

His Voice is nothing other than his own unconscious, into which the German people have projected their own selves; that is, the unconscious of seventy-eight million Germans. That is what makes him powerful. Without the German people he would be nothing.

In comparison with Mussolini, Hitler made upon me the impression of a sort of scaffolding of wood covered with cloth, an automaton with a mask, like a robot or a mask of a robot. During the whole performance he never laughed; it was as though he were in a bad humor, sulking. He showed no human sign.

His expression was that of an inhumanly single-minded purposiveness, with no sense of humor. He seemed as if he might be a double of a real person, and that Hitler the man might perhaps be hiding inside like an appendix, and deliberately so hiding in order not to disturb the mechanism.

With Hitler you do not feel that you are with a man. You are with a medicine man, a form of spiritual vessel, a demi-deity, or even better, a myth. With Hitler you are scared. You know you would never be able to talk to that man; because there is nobody there. He is not a man, but a collective. He is not an individual, but a whole nation. I take it to be literally true that he has no personal friend. How can you talk intimately with a nation?

Interesting take by Jung. Hitler, the messiah, the vessel for the German superiority complex born out of the German inferiority complex and the need for revenge. Germany couldn't rob the rest of the planet like countries such as England, Spain, France etc. could, and then was also beaten down in WW1.

[Gary Childress]

I oppose Hitler too. Sympathy and opposition aren't mutually exclusive for me.

I oppose murderers, but I'm sure there are many murders who have led lives it would be hard not to feel sorry for.

If they're in prison, I'm sure they should stay there. They can have some sympathy anyway.

When I was going to school growing up, one of my philosophy professors, Thelma Lavine, basically stated in not uncertain terms in one of my classes with her that Hitler and Nazi Germany are the utmost examples of evil in our time and to be avoided.

It isn't "evil", Gary, it's human psychology, and the more we understand it, the better. Thinking of it as evil, or not thinking about it at all, leaves us defenceless against it.

No. it's not evil to study what happened and why. However, there seem to be people out there who call themselves Nazis and wave swastikas, with full knowledge of what those things stand for. I just want to make sure that we all understand that Hitler and Nazism are bad territory to get sucked into (if that happens). I think when we start sympathizing with people like Hitler, then we've got to step back and recheck our bearings.

[Impenitent]

pro hamas democrats who have been protesting against the Jews recently could never be considered nazi-like...

-Imp

[Gary Childress]

pro hamas democrats who have been protesting against the Jews recently could never be considered nazi-like...

-Imp

I don't think they were advocating to kill jews or exterminate them, so no, I'd say they couldn't be considered Nazi-like. The protests were over what was happening to Palestinian civilians.

[Harbal]

When I was going to school growing up, one of my philosophy professors, Thelma Lavine, basically stated in not uncertain terms in one of my classes with her that Hitler and Nazi Germany are the utmost examples of evil in our time and to be avoided.

It isn't "evil", Gary, it's human psychology, and the more we understand it, the better. Thinking of it as evil, or not thinking about it at all, leaves us defenceless against it.

No. it's not evil to study what happened and why.

I meant that the whole Nazi thing was nothing to do with "evil", whatever that is actually supposed to be. I think we have to look at the thing in terms of human behaviour, and not as some manifestation of that mythical, and pointless, concept of evil.

[Impenitent]

pro hamas democrats who have been protesting against the Jews recently could never be considered nazi-like...

-Imp

I don't think they were advocating to kill jews or exterminate them, so no, I'd say they couldn't be considered Nazi-like. The protests were over what was happening to Palestinian civilians.

just like millions of Germans who didn't believe at first...

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/17/us/c ... itism.html

"Last week, Columbia barred from campus Khymani James, a leader of the pro-Palestinian encampment, after a January video of his saying “Zionists don’t deserve to live” resurfaced."

-Imp

[Gary Childress]

It isn't "evil", Gary, it's human psychology, and the more we understand it, the better. Thinking of it as evil, or not thinking about it at all, leaves us defenceless against it.

No. it's not evil to study what happened and why.

I meant that the whole Nazi thing was nothing to do with "evil", whatever that is actually supposed to be. I think we have to look at the thing in terms of human behaviour, and not as some manifestation of that mythical, and pointless, concept of evil.

Fair enough.

[Harbal]

No. it's not evil to study what happened and why.

I meant that the whole Nazi thing was nothing to do with "evil", whatever that is actually supposed to be. I think we have to look at the thing in terms of human behaviour, and not as some manifestation of that mythical, and pointless, concept of evil.

Fair enough.

Okay, I can see you are totally disinterested, Gary.

[Iwannaplato]

The OP, including the title, has a few different ideas/questions/possibilities related to Hitler.

Was Hitler as bad as some make him out to be? I think so, though I don't really know what judgment specifically is being aimed at Hitler by some.
Ought someone sympathize with Hitler? I don't think one ought to, though it might be a good thing for some people to sympathize with him. A lot depends on what version of sympathize we're intending. Hitler hated Jews. I sympathize with that. That's a problem to me. Hitler was an extremely fallible human being who based a lot of his decisions and conclusions irrationally. I could find some sympathy for him there. I don't however sympathize with his actions. But I could find on some level sympathy for any confused and idiotic creature in a very challenging and often nightmarish universe. Ought I feel that in relation to Hitler. I don't think so. Would it make me a bad person, if at that level of bare humanity I feel some sympathy for him? No I don't think so.

Should I try to move closer to his worldviews? No.

Should I find some way to justify his decisions and actions? I can't see why.

We don*t know the original context where someone suggested feeling sympathy for Hitler or what that meant.

It seems to me that this issue can just be kind of creating volatility over equivocations of 'sympathize'.

I think we should be very specific about what we mean - and I know some people have made efforts to do this, or this is just going to be thread where people get upset, where there is at root perhaps no difference of opinion at all.

Unfortunately or fortunately I can see and feel parts of me that are hateful and nuts. Fortunately I am aware. Unfortunately there are and have been nuts and hateful in me. There but for the grace of God (or certain aspects of parenting or certain friends or some luck in what I encountered in this life or that I had some good books to read at a key moment in my childhood) go I and all that. There were Hitlers in me. I don't mean anti-semites or world leaders. But there were insane, enraged, desperate portions of me and perhaps small, contingent parts of my biography kept them from getting the upper hand.



Sympathize with means many things. That seems to be the central word in the OP.
Was Hitler as bad as some make him out to be? is the title of thread.

[Gary Childress]

Unfortunately or fortunately I can see and feel parts of me that are hateful and nuts. Fortunately I am aware. Unfortunately there are and have been nuts and hateful in me. There but for the grace of God (or certain aspects of parenting or certain friends or some luck in what I encountered in this life or that I had some good books to read at a key moment in my childhood) go I and all that. There were Hitlers in me. I don't mean anti-semites or world leaders. But there were insane, enraged, desperate portions of me and perhaps small, contingent parts of my biography kept them from getting the upper hand.

Probably most of us can relate to anger and hateful moments in thought. I certainly can. There but for the grace of God perhaps go I as well, I suppose. If I act on those thoughts and do such enormous harm as kill someone (let alone 6 million), then I think people ought to villainize me.


\_(*_*)_/

[Walker]

Never underestimate the power of dogs.

https://short-history.com/hitlers-favou ... fc8f047924