Tainted Relationship With God

[Age]

Funny things about words, they are in a loop of almost infinite definition.

Only if, and when, you human beings make them so.

We use words to define other words.

Well obviously.

For example, define a word, then define all the words that you used to define that word, then define all the words that you used to define those words and so on.

Why?

What would be the 'actual purpose' for doing this?

If it is to show and/or prove that words could be in a loop of 'almost' infinite definition, then I am pretty sure that this does not need actual proving here, as it is an already known Fact, by the readers here.

But, in saying this I could also point out and reveal that one could just define a word, by just 'looking in' a dictionary, and just define all of the words that were used to define that word, again by just 'looking in' the exact same dictionary, and then just keep doing the exact same thing here, until 'the dictionary' fulfils the 'almost' 'infinite definition loop', which was made up and created by human beings.

And, if there is 'not yet' 'a dictionary' nor 'a book of Life' in which every name, or word, within it provides a crystal clear big and full irrefutably Accurate picture of all-there-is, then you human beings, and 'your language', will just keep evolving, and changing, until 'that book' is written.

Which it obviously is HERE-NOW.

[Osric]

Probably both a statement and a question.

[Osric]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VllAt2Vv-Dw

Does anyone else think they would like a more interesting existence? Like maybe Doom or Dungeons and Dragons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVyS9hoQJiQ

I like the lyrics for Elena Siegman's songs.

[Osric]

Something interesting to me is that you can believe in God and not believe in the bible or that Jesus was the son of God. Sometimes I believe that we are merely a part of a greater organism. We are like the blood cells in our bodies, performing functions to maintain life. We have different levels of life, such as microscopic, molecular, atomic, and quantum. Who knows just how small or big existence really is? I find it interesting to think about.

[Age]

Something interesting to me is that you can believe in God and not believe in the bible or that Jesus was the son of God. Sometimes I believe that we are merely a part of a greater organism. We are like the blood cells in our bodies, performing functions to maintain life. We have different levels of life, such as microscopic, molecular, atomic, and quantum. Who knows just how small or big existence really is? I find it interesting to think about.

Existence really is big as infinite, in size, and as eternal, in 'time'.

And, at Existence's smallest fundamental level It is made up of matter, with a distance between.

[bahman]

One of the major motivators for a person to worship God I think is fear, mainly fear of pain and suffering that God can inflict on us should we not accept him as our lord and savoir.

That's not worship. That's just anxiety. If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.

There is: Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. – Matthew 25:41

[Immanuel Can]

One of the major motivators for a person to worship God I think is fear, mainly fear of pain and suffering that God can inflict on us should we not accept him as our lord and savoir.

That's not worship. That's just anxiety. If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.

There is: Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. – Matthew 25:41

How do you connect that with either "worship" or the "lordship" and "salvation" issue? Those spoken of in that passage have passed the point of any further choice, and are condemned forever. They don't "worship," have already rejected "lordship" and cannot any longer be "saved."

On the other hand, you will find "worship" practiced and "lordship" acclaimed among those already "saved." So it seems the salvation issue is the primary matter there.

Hell doesn't motivate worship or lordship, or motivate salvation. It's simply what happens to those who reject all of that.

[godelian]

One of the major motivators for a person to worship God I think is fear, mainly fear of pain and suffering that God can inflict on us should we not accept him as our lord and savoir.

It is rather that God reminds us of the various land mines littered in the landscape while he advises us not to step on them. As every misbehavior is its own punishment, I don't see it as God inflicting fear of pain and suffering on us. Furthermore, you do not have to accept him as our lord and savoir. You are free not to. Seriously, instead of watching out for the land mines, you can also just step on them. That is an equally valid approach to the matter.

[bahman]

That's not worship. That's just anxiety. If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.

There is: Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. – Matthew 25:41

How do you connect that with either "worship" or the "lordship" and "salvation" issue? Those spoken of in that passage have passed the point of any further choice, and are condemned forever. They don't "worship," have already rejected "lordship" and cannot any longer be "saved."

On the other hand, you will find "worship" practiced and "lordship" acclaimed among those already "saved." So it seems the salvation issue is the primary matter there.

Hell doesn't motivate worship or lordship, or motivate salvation. It's simply what happens to those who reject all of that.

I am responding to this: "If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.".

[Immanuel Can]

There is: Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. – Matthew 25:41

How do you connect that with either "worship" or the "lordship" and "salvation" issue? Those spoken of in that passage have passed the point of any further choice, and are condemned forever. They don't "worship," have already rejected "lordship" and cannot any longer be "saved."

On the other hand, you will find "worship" practiced and "lordship" acclaimed among those already "saved." So it seems the salvation issue is the primary matter there.

Hell doesn't motivate worship or lordship, or motivate salvation. It's simply what happens to those who reject all of that.

I am responding to this: "If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.".

I know. But your response only deals with one verse, and not one that can pertain to worship or lordship. So it's hard to see how your aimed-at "response" would be....well, "responsive" to the issue in question.

Maybe you can clarify.

[bahman]

How do you connect that with either "worship" or the "lordship" and "salvation" issue? Those spoken of in that passage have passed the point of any further choice, and are condemned forever. They don't "worship," have already rejected "lordship" and cannot any longer be "saved."

On the other hand, you will find "worship" practiced and "lordship" acclaimed among those already "saved." So it seems the salvation issue is the primary matter there.

Hell doesn't motivate worship or lordship, or motivate salvation. It's simply what happens to those who reject all of that.

I am responding to this: "If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.".

I know. But your response only deals with one verse, and not one that can pertain to worship or lordship. So it's hard to see how your aimed-at "response" would be....well, "responsive" to the issue in question.

Maybe you can clarify.

A healthy relationship between God and humans must be based on mutual respect rather than fear of humans from God.

[Immanuel Can]

I am responding to this: "If you read the Bible, "pain and suffering to be inflicted" is not at all the emphasis.".

I know. But your response only deals with one verse, and not one that can pertain to worship or lordship. So it's hard to see how your aimed-at "response" would be....well, "responsive" to the issue in question.

Maybe you can clarify.

A healthy relationship between God and humans must be based on mutual respect rather than fear of humans from God.

"Mutual" respect? Elaborate, please: I can see a sense in which that could be right, but one in which it could be obviously absurd. God is God, and you and I are not. Some uneven balance of regard is inevitable. But what could you mean by "mutual respect"?

Do you mean that God owes us some kind of regard? It's hard to see why you'd think that. Do you think that we owe HIm some kind of regard? That might be right, but it can hardly be merely "mutuality."

[bahman]

I know. But your response only deals with one verse, and not one that can pertain to worship or lordship. So it's hard to see how your aimed-at "response" would be....well, "responsive" to the issue in question.

Maybe you can clarify.

A healthy relationship between God and humans must be based on mutual respect rather than fear of humans from God.

"Mutual" respect? Elaborate, please: I can see a sense in which that could be right, but one in which it could be obviously absurd. God is God, and you and I are not. Some uneven balance of regard is inevitable. But what could you mean by "mutual respect"?

Do you mean that God owes us some kind of regard? It's hard to see why you'd think that. Do you think that we owe HIm some kind of regard? That might be right, but it can hardly be merely "mutuality."

You have to wonder why God never does something wrong while we do. God is all-wise while we are not. You also have to ask yourself whose fault it is that we are not all-wise. We are the creatures of God whether this is true or not is the subject of debate but I think you agree with it. If we accept that God is all-wise and never does something wrong, then why He didn't create us all-wise? Either He couldn't create us all wise or He has a purpose. What His purpose could be rather than leaving us on our own so we learn from our mistakes and become all-wise. We have gone through hardship and get from what we were to what we are now. We did all these on our own. So shouldn't God respect us for what we did, what we do, and what we will?

[Immanuel Can]

A healthy relationship between God and humans must be based on mutual respect rather than fear of humans from God.

"Mutual" respect? Elaborate, please: I can see a sense in which that could be right, but one in which it could be obviously absurd. God is God, and you and I are not. Some uneven balance of regard is inevitable. But what could you mean by "mutual respect"?

Do you mean that God owes us some kind of regard? It's hard to see why you'd think that. Do you think that we owe HIm some kind of regard? That might be right, but it can hardly be merely "mutuality."

You have to wonder why God never does something wrong while we do.

Why? We aren't God. What would you expect?

God is all-wise while we are not. You also have to ask yourself whose fault it is that we are not all-wise.

Fault? Why does it have to be a "fault"? That's like saying, "It's too bad zebras aren't penguins." Zebras aren't penguins because zebras aren't penguins. Human beings are not God because human beings are contingent, fallible, moribund beings. I fail to see what else you would expect them to be, and why you'd expect it.

...why He didn't create us all-wise?

Does He owe us to do that? Does he owe zebras to make them penguins?

We have gone through hardship and get from what we were to what we are now.

You'll have to explain that. I don't understand the claim.

What is "what we were," and what is "what we are now"? It seems to me you were born a person, and you'll die a person. If you mean something more than that, you'll have to specify. I can't anticipate what you mean.

[bahman]

"Mutual" respect? Elaborate, please: I can see a sense in which that could be right, but one in which it could be obviously absurd. God is God, and you and I are not. Some uneven balance of regard is inevitable. But what could you mean by "mutual respect"?

Do you mean that God owes us some kind of regard? It's hard to see why you'd think that. Do you think that we owe HIm some kind of regard? That might be right, but it can hardly be merely "mutuality."

You have to wonder why God never does something wrong while we do.

Why? We aren't God. What would you expect?

Yes, we are not God so we do things wrong sometimes. What do you expect?

God is all-wise while we are not. You also have to ask yourself whose fault it is that we are not all-wise.

Fault? Why does it have to be a "fault"?

Why not? We do things wrong because we are not all-wise.

...why He didn't create us all-wise?

Does He owe us to do that? Does he owe zebras to make them penguins?

Yes, He owes us unless He has a purpose!

We have gone through hardship and get from what we were to what we are now.

You'll have to explain that. I don't understand the claim.

What is "what we were," and what is "what we are now"? It seems to me you were born a person, and you'll die a person. If you mean something more than that, you'll have to specify. I can't anticipate what you mean.

Just think of the history of humans to see what I mean.