Mother Russia and America.....

[Peter Kropotkin]

as I have been reading to many ''heavy'' books of late, I decided
to ''lighten'' it up by rereading a book called ''Natasha's Dance''
A cultural history of Russia by Orlando Figes.......

and in this book, he brings out the point that Russia pre-1812,
the nobles, anyway, were following the agenda set by Peter the Great...
in which Russia turned to the west for its needs... Peter insisted that
the nobles turn away from Russian practices and adapt western
dress, beliefs and values.... Nobles so adopted this idea that
for the most part, Russian Nobles didn't even know Russian
and only spoke French.... For example, when a noble spoke to
the Tsar, it was in French... not Russian... and this holding to
the French as the torchbearers of civilization and ideals,
lasted in Russia until the invasion of Napolean in 1812...
when Russian Nobles actually began to learn Russian...

So, the question becomes, post Napolean, is Russia, to be guided
by western values or is Russia to be guided by its own values? In Russia itself,
a very strong faction supported the Westernization of Russia which lasted
until 1917........(and we get Lenin and Stalin, but that is another story)

We have in Russia two souls, one soul is the belief that the present
and future, is based in the west, and the other soul was that Russia
was best guided by its own values, usually peasant values and beliefs....

This dualism lies at the heart of the question of ''what it means to be Russian?''
of the west or Slavic/Asiatic? The question of which direction comes from
the inherent set up of the Russian state.... in that the vast majority of
the country was simple, uneducated serfs/slaves... 99% of all Russia
was serfs... the Nobility and the Church, was the rest of Russia...
there was no middle class, no intellectuals, no market for books..
that a very small number of people owned 99% of the wealth in Russia....
and that wealth was counted, as it was in the American south, by
the number of slaves/peasants one owned... one family owned over
10,000 serfs in Russia....and that owning a vast number of serfs
was common within the nobility.... and with the American south,
technology was a need because all power could come from the vast
number of people one owned.... if you have a vast number of people
doing deeds for you, why do you need technology? So both Russia
and the American south, had limited use of technology..... one of the reasons,
both fell behind in the race for wealth in the 19th century.....

So, I have laid out the groundwork for our understanding of the dualism
of Russia... and it is a very rough guide.. but it will do for what we are
going for......and in thinking about Russia, I was led to think about
the U.S.... do we have a dualism similar to Russia?
Whereas the Russian dualism is based on is Russia and Russians,
western based or is Russia/Russians, Slavic/Oriental?
Which direction does/should Russia/Russians look to?

that is part of the Russian question of ''what does it mean to be Russian?"

and now we face the second part of my question, how do we compare
and contrast the Russian example, to America? Can we use some of
these Russian questions to help us understand what it means to be
an American?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

and in thinking about America, as a dualism, like Russia,
what is the basis of our American dualism?

We see in America today, a fight for the soul of America....
the left and the right are in a fight to the death over
what it means to be an American......

but let us better understand the nature of this fight....
again, drawing on the Russian comparison, what seems to
be the conflicting aspect of American values? What drives our
modern day conflict between the right and the left?
(the points I arrive at, are not new or original, but the
conclusion?)

the conclusions of historians and those who study such
things, is that the American frontier, closed up in 1893....
and in 1893/1900, the demographics of America was that
the larger percentage of people lived in rural, agriculture
areas...maybe 50% of all American people live in cities...
of course, that changed very quickly... and today,
a much larger percentage of the population lives in
the cities or the suburbs... not in the rural areas.....
and roughly four out of every five people living in the U.S.
live in cities/suburbs today...
for example in California, roughly 94% of the population lives
in cities/urban areas....and nationally, roughly 80% of all Americans
live in urban areas....

I point these things out in terms of the massive change in America from
a rural, agricultural country to a massively urban area in less than in
two generations....now I point out as context.... in 1893, the ending
of the American frontier, my grandmother on my mom's side, as alive...
and her father fought in the American Civil War... that in 159 years,
my family spans only 4 generations... and from the ending of the west...
and it's been 131 years since then....

so, not very much time as passed since the loss of the American frontier...
and wherein lies the American conflict? that we still cling to an America,
within its beliefs and values, of being rural and agricultural country....
the unease within America lies in the tension that lays between the rise
of the urban/cities and the old ways of rural America....

the two, are not only geographical opposites, but politically,
socially, economically, legally, and philosophically opposed to each other....
the city/urban areas are in conflict with, have tensions with the older,
rural America....therein lies the conflict in America... between the urban/cities
and the rural America... we can see this in the demonization of cities/urban
areas by the conservative/rural value systems within America...

if one were to listen to conservative talk radio, that urban America
is a ''warzone'' and entire cities were destroyed during the BLM marches...
the one city that gets mentioned a lot is Portland... and yet, the entire
area of ''destruction'' in Portland is a small area around the civic center
where a few fences were burned down...I was there a few years ago,
I love the Portland bookstore, Powells... and I saw nothing that indicated
any type of destruction in the entire city... Instead of accepting the lies
of right-wing radio, how about going to see for oneself?

anyway, this demonization of cities and urban areas are part and parcel
of the American struggle between two thoughts/value systems...
one is the rural mindset and the other is the urban mindset.....

for example, look at the music that comes out of both...
country-western out of the rural areas and rap/crap, comes
out of the urban areas... is this list complete and exhaustive?
nah, as with all things, it is more like a tendency...
country-western tends to come from rural area's,
and rap/crap, tends to come from urban area's...
(note, I hate rap and I equally hate country-western)

so, what does it mean to be an American, given this
dualism/split of America, into rural areas and urban area's?
which values, urban or rural, best represent America?
and therein lies the modern story of liberalism and
conservatism....

IQ45 and the MAGA party hold to rural values, and the democrats/
liberalism holds to urban values..... and the question isn't even
about the past or present, but about the future....
which values, urban or rural, give us our best chance of
moving into the future?

and we will approach that next....

Kropotkin

[Harbal]

as I have been reading to many ''heavy'' books of late, I decided
to ''lighten'' it up

I suggest you give Kindle a try. It doesn't matter which book you read, they all weigh the same.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I equally hate country-western).

And bluegrass?

[Peter Kropotkin]

as I have been reading to many ''heavy'' books of late, I decided
to ''lighten'' it up

I suggest you give Kindle a try. It doesn't matter which book you read, they all weigh the same.

K: I like holding/reading heavy/big books..... It is pretty common
for me to read 500 to 800 page books.. I like the feel and texture
of books...I tried Kindle once and hated it with a passion....
so, no thanks...

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

I equally hate country-western).

And bluegrass?

K: hate.... I mostly listen to jazz or classical music... as of this very moment,
I am listening to Chris Cross song, ''Sailing'' and oldy but goody... a
great deal of the music I listen to, is from the 70's or 80's.....
but that is mostly because that is the music I feel most comfortable with...

Kropotkin

[Harbal]

I tried Kindle once and hated it with a passion....

I'm not quite sure how a Kindle managed to provoke passion, but I agree that real books are a better experience.

[Alexis Jacobi]

K: Hate. I mostly listen to jazz or classical music. As of this very moment I am listening to …

Glad to know you recovered your hearing.

[Peter Kropotkin]

OK, back at the ranch....

values... which values are the values that we should hold now
and going forward?... I have argued for liberal values or said another
way... urban values... but let us first think about rural values...

The basic way to think of rural values is within this slogan...

''god, country, guns''

if one were to sum up conservative/rural values, you can't do any
better than this slogan... but let us look at these values...
it is clear from these values that they are static values...
there is little to no movement within these values...
for example, the values of god is meant to exist, past,
present and future... there is no movement in the values
of god... and of guns... the values associated with guns,
haven't change in over a century.... and that leaves us country.....
the values of rural America are the values of tradition, of stability,
with no change within those values.... there is no movement in
the rural values of the conservative...

let us now look at urban values....the values of liberals are
values which change, adapt, move with the changes within ones
environment.... science, which is a liberal value, is one of movement
and changed depending on what the science tells us... I note
that conservatives hate science...for that very reason... it can change
and adapt to the ever-changing world we live in...
urban values are much more ''ad hoc'' of the moment,
because with every passing moment, there is change..
and we need to adapt to those changes...

and values like homosexuality? those too are liberal values...
they are urban values... as is transexual values and other
''unnatural'' values... these values are considered to be
sin due to the fact that conservatives hold to the rural
values of ''god, country and guns''.... but they are ''sin''
only if one designates them to be....

the urban values are the values of diversity, of the acceptance
of the dignity and value of a human being..... all human beings
have value... that too is a liberal value...

given these two value systems, what of going into the future... what
value system should we go with... as a value system that will take us
into the future, which one is more suitable?

as rural, conservative's values are unable to cope with changing
events, because conservative's value stability, tradition, custom,
ritual.... and these values preclude movement and acceptance
of change... the conservative holds to the 1950's as the ideal age,
or as even some conservatives hold to the Medieval age as being
the ideal age to recreate.... pinning for the past isn't
about meeting the challenges of the future.....
which value system gives us the best chance to adapt
and change to meet an ever-changing world?

so, the challenge here for conservatives is to explain how
conservatism can meet the challenges of the future?
How does being/holding to conservative values, allow
us to change and adapt to a changing world?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

K: Hate. I mostly listen to jazz or classical music. As of this very moment I am listening to …

Glad to know you recovered your hearing.

K: Not at all.. I listen to headphones that are blasting full blast...
I routinely blow out my headphones for being played so loud,
and as I listen to very familiar music, as I described,
I can tell what I am listening to.... trust me when I say
my headphones are so loud, that it would hurt your hearing
if you were to listen to them....my wife can hear the music
on my headphones across the room...

Kropotkin

[accelafine]

K: Hate. I mostly listen to jazz or classical music. As of this very moment I am listening to …

Glad to know you recovered your hearing.

Hah! Well spotted. The man's a compulsive liar.

[Dubious]

I tried Kindle once and hated it with a passion....
so, no thanks...

Kropotkin

It has its advantages.

[Age]

as I have been reading to many ''heavy'' books of late, I decided
to ''lighten'' it up

I suggest you give Kindle a try. It doesn't matter which book you read, they all weigh the same.

K: I like holding/reading heavy/big books..... It is pretty common
for me to read 500 to 800 page books.. I like the feel and texture
of books...I tried Kindle once and hated it with a passion....
so, no thanks...

Kropotkin

This might explain why you do not read the replies here, on a screen.

[Peter Kropotkin]

K: Hate. I mostly listen to jazz or classical music. As of this very moment I am listening to …

Glad to know you recovered your hearing.

Hah! Well spotted. The man's a compulsive liar.

K: and your evidence?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

I suggest you give Kindle a try. It doesn't matter which book you read, they all weigh the same.

K: I like holding/reading heavy/big books..... It is pretty common
for me to read 500 to 800 page books.. I like the feel and texture
of books...I tried Kindle once and hated it with a passion....
so, no thanks...

Kropotkin

This might explain why you do not read the replies here, on a screen.

K: No, I just don't read your replies...

Kropotkin