Abortion is Not Permissible, Period!

[accelafine]

Killing other people is something humans do all the time. Right now, Ukrainians and Russians are killing each other. And nations are funding the killing, rejoicing in it, and hoping to exterminate the other side. The Gazans who invaded Israel, raped women, killed old men, put babies in ovens, and still hold hostages...do they look to you like people who have any reluctance to kill? And Marxists killed 140 million in the last century...where was their sense of "oughtness"?

You've got nothing. You talk, but only because you've never understood the problem, not because you've ever had any response that makes sense.

Unforgivable to pretend to care about people and their suffering, based solely on religious indoctrination and sycophancy.

This, even if it were entirely true, would have zero to do with the truth of the argument. Don't waste our time.

What if the raped Israeli women got pregnant by those monsters (if they actually survived)? Would you force them to continue with those pregnancies?

I'll tell you what: if you agree that the 99% of abortions that are elective are wrong and are murders, I'll discuss what we should do to help these poor Israeli women. If you won't, then don't you think it's pretty shameful of you to drag those hapless victims up merely to use them to try to justify the gratutious murders of children?

Want to do that?

Yes. Let's do that shall we? Which '1%' of abortions are fine with you, oh mighty little man? Your opinion is all important in this. Please mansplain to me which abortions you approve of (because I really do give a shit what you think).

[Immanuel Can]

If the author is realistic, he would have critiqued that God is not real, i.e. impossible to exists as real.

Why? Because you keep saying it? That's not a good reason to believe it.

Give your evidence that there's no God. Let's see what you've got.

I have provided the link above.

No, let's have it here and now.

But let's look even beyond that, too. If there's no God, it wouldn't imply that there ARE "oughts." There still wouldn't be any "oughts." Getting rid of God wouldn't give you any justification for a single moral precept: in fact, it would mean you have none at all, and no hope of any.

Do you understand the general meaning of the term 'morality'

Much better than you do, I guarantee. I can tell that from your attempted arguments.

I defined morality as the management of evil [as defined] to enable its related good to manifest.

See, you don't even realized that this totally begs the key question: you can't say anything is "evil" unless you are already using a moral standard. So you can't use reference to "evil" to explain your definition of morality. You need to have explained what makes things "good" or "evil" in the first place. And you haven't. So again, you've got nothing there.

Empirically the subject, feature and activities related to morality are ubiquitous to humans activities thus arising from human nature.

That wouldn't make them right, and it wouldn't mean we "ought" to do them. It would plausibly be like many other things human beings have done ubiquitously...slavery, rape, war, prostitution, genocide...just things we do, but we have no "ought" to do.

Just like elsewhere, "Oughts" and "ought-not-ness" are features of a moral system and the subject of morality.
So there is the oughtnot-ness to enslave, to rape, to kill another person.

No, all you are saying is that there is BOTH "oughtness and ought-notness," and you have no way of being sure what applies to any of these cases. Maybe, we "ought" to enslave people, because it gives us free labour. Maybe we "ought" to rape, because it's the quickest route to gratification. Maybe we "ought" to murder people, because they're in our way. Your explanation gives us no reasons to believe it's "ought-notness" that attaches to these things at all.

But again, you don't even understand the problem; so that's why you can't deal with it.

It is not mere necessary, it is an imperative thus more appropriate an 'oughtness to breathe'.

It's not an imperative at all. It's merely useful to the continuation of life. But we don't know if we "ought" to continue to live, either.

First you have missed out on what is morality-proper.

Ironic. You don't have any explanation of what makes something moral at all.

Again you missed my critical points.

They weren't critical. They weren't even coherent or relevant. They deserved to be ignored, because they had no rational value to the discussion.

But I didn't ignore them: I pointed out that people do, in fact, love to kill. They do it tons.

The presence of the moral fact is evident from the following;
1. that you and the majority do not seeming go about killing humans either naturally, or due to some internal restraining forces.
2. the killing of humans by humans is a serious crime in all countries.
3. all religions generally condemn the killing of humans

So this is just rubbish. First of all, #1 just says that some people don't feel they like to do it, and some do. The second is irrelevant, because some laws are good and some are evil, and we can't yet tell why we would assume killing was evil. The third one is manifestly untrue, in cases like Islam or Marxism.

You've got nothing again. But I'll give you one more chance to figure it out, and then I'm moving on: because it's clear to me that so far, you don't even understand the Is-Ought problem, let alone have any relevant answer to it. And my time's too short to waste on going around in empty circles like you do.

[Immanuel Can]

Unforgivable to pretend to care about people and their suffering, based solely on religious indoctrination and sycophancy.

This, even if it were entirely true, would have zero to do with the truth of the argument. Don't waste our time.

What if the raped Israeli women got pregnant by those monsters (if they actually survived)? Would you force them to continue with those pregnancies?

I'll tell you what: if you agree that the 99% of abortions that are elective are wrong and are murders, I'll discuss what we should do to help these poor Israeli women. If you won't, then don't you think it's pretty shameful of you to drag those hapless victims up merely to use them to try to justify the gratutious murders of children?

Want to do that?

Yes. Let's do that shall we? Which '1%' of abortions are fine with you, oh mighty little man?

Are you prepared to accept that the 99% of abortions are gratuitous murders? If you are, we'll go on; because the case of the Israeli women is not the case of the 99%, and so any excuses pertaining to the Israeli women are irrelevant to them.

Well?

[accelafine]

This, even if it were entirely true, would have zero to do with the truth of the argument. Don't waste our time.


I'll tell you what: if you agree that the 99% of abortions that are elective are wrong and are murders, I'll discuss what we should do to help these poor Israeli women. If you won't, then don't you think it's pretty shameful of you to drag those hapless victims up merely to use them to try to justify the gratutious murders of children?

Want to do that?

Yes. Let's do that shall we? Which '1%' of abortions are fine with you, oh mighty little man?

Are you prepared to accept that the 99% of abortions are gratuitous murders? If you are, we'll go on; because the case of the Israeli women is not the case of the 99%, and so any excuses pertaining to the Israeli women are irrelevant to them.

Well?

So you believe those Israeli women should be forced to give birth to the babies of their rapists. Got it. If you didn't think that then you would be a scummy little hypocrite and that couldn't possibly be the case.

[accelafine]

In the US alone there are around 700K abortions per year. That would be 700K extra people added to the US population each year
According to Mr. Can, 7K of those are 'worthy' abortions. Apparently those 7K zygotes don't deserve to live according to Mr. Can's code of ethics.
That's straight from the horse's mouth. Mr. Can approves of 7 thousand 'baby murders' per year.

Have you seen this, God? Mr. Can is murdering your babies.

[Immanuel Can]

Yes. Let's do that shall we? Which '1%' of abortions are fine with you, oh mighty little man?

Are you prepared to accept that the 99% of abortions are gratuitous murders? If you are, we'll go on; because the case of the Israeli women is not the case of the 99%, and so any excuses pertaining to the Israeli women are irrelevant to them.

Well?

So you believe...

No, no...answer the question, or we go no farther.

[accelafine]

I don't make any judgement on other women's right to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy. It's none of my business. There's your answer little man. Scummy hypocrite.

[Immanuel Can]

According to Mr. Can, 7K of those are 'worthy' abortions.

I have never said that. I have no idea where you're getting that from.

[accelafine]

You are a religious fuckturd who doesn't give a rat's arse about either children or zygotes. There's nothing more to be said.

[Immanuel Can]

Scummy hypocrite.

I know why you won't answer, I think. Chances are, you're one of the people who've done it. And the thing that terrifies you is the thought that what you did is the worst thing a human being can do. It's so bad that you worry that you'd never be able to admit it to yourself. You even worry that God cannot forgive you. (He can, and will, if you are willing.) So you will never, no matter what I say, ever admit that what you did was wrong.

That kind of ends the discussion, doesn't it?

I would wish you to be delivered of that awful guilt. I would wish you to know forgiveness; for nothing is ultimately unforgiveable, with God. But whether or not you allow Him to deliver you will be in your hands. Arguing with me won't do it. Reinforcing what you know isn't really true won't do it. Hiding the truth from yourself won't do it. But God can.

I wish you well. I have no desire to hurt you. But sometimes, as Thomas Hardy famously realized, "If way to the better there be / It exacts a full look at the worst." If, one day, you face that "worst," you can be free of it. If you don't, you never will. And I'm pretty sure that on some deep level, you even know that's true.

[accelafine]

Pitiful little man.

I'm sure 'God' will be delighted to know that you believe those Israeli women should be forced to give birth to the babies of their rapists. Those zygotes deserve a chance at life too.

Your place in heaven is safe

[attofishpi]

..the thing that terrifies you is the thought that what you did is the worst thing a human being can do.

What planet R U on?

I could provide a very long list of things that are far worse than aborting a foetus. (ya know, sending a soul back for God to deal with some place else).

[accelafine]

Scummy hypocrite.

I know why you won't answer, I think. Chances are, you're one of the people who've done it. And the thing that terrifies you is the thought that what you did is the worst thing a human being can do. It's so bad that you worry that you'd never be able to admit it to yourself. You even worry that God cannot forgive you. (He can, and will, if you are willing.) So you will never, no matter what I say, ever admit that what you did was wrong.

That kind of ends the discussion, doesn't it?

I would wish you to be delivered of that awful guilt. I would wish you to know forgiveness; for nothing is ultimately unforgiveable, with God. But whether or not you allow Him to deliver you will be in your hands. Arguing with me won't do it. Reinforcing what you know isn't really true won't do it. Hiding the truth from yourself won't do it. But God can.

I wish you well. I have no desire to hurt you. But sometimes, as Thomas Hardy famously realized, "If way to the better there be / It exacts a full look at the worst." If, one day, you face that "worst," you can be free of it. If you don't, you never will. And I'm pretty sure that on some deep level, you even know that's true.

'Answer' what? You are the one who is anti-choice, not me. No, I don't think 99% of abortions are 'murder'. 100 percent of abortions are NOT murder. That's just a fact. Women can obviously do what they like with their pregnancies.

And you are correct. The discussion ended with you scraping the barrel of desperation with ''Waaah, you are only pro-choice because you must have had lots of abortions. Oooh. You must feel really guilty about that'' Fantastic debating skills.

But it's good to know you are sticking to your guns and not making exceptions. Every zygote has a sacred soul, even the zygotes of Hamas rapists and mass murderers. God bless you.

[Immanuel Can]

..the thing that terrifies you is the thought that what you did is the worst thing a human being can do.

What planet R U on?

This one. What is worse than taking your own flesh-and-blood, your own precious child, and ripping her limb from limb, so you don't have to ever know her?

And the perp? Her own mother. All the evils of gulags and gas chambers are milder than that -- and smaller in number.

[Immanuel Can]

Scummy hypocrite.

I know why you won't answer, I think. Chances are, you're one of the people who've done it. And the thing that terrifies you is the thought that what you did is the worst thing a human being can do. It's so bad that you worry that you'd never be able to admit it to yourself. You even worry that God cannot forgive you. (He can, and will, if you are willing.) So you will never, no matter what I say, ever admit that what you did was wrong.

That kind of ends the discussion, doesn't it?

I would wish you to be delivered of that awful guilt. I would wish you to know forgiveness; for nothing is ultimately unforgiveable, with God. But whether or not you allow Him to deliver you will be in your hands. Arguing with me won't do it. Reinforcing what you know isn't really true won't do it. Hiding the truth from yourself won't do it. But God can.

I wish you well. I have no desire to hurt you. But sometimes, as Thomas Hardy famously realized, "If way to the better there be / It exacts a full look at the worst." If, one day, you face that "worst," you can be free of it. If you don't, you never will. And I'm pretty sure that on some deep level, you even know that's true.

'Answer' what? You are the one who is anti-choice, not me.

I'm the pro-good-choice one. You're the pro-bad-choice one. We're both for choice, but I want to see it exercised at conception, and you, by way of murder.

No, I don't think 99% of abortions are 'murder'. 100 percent of abortions are NOT murder.

The willful killing of an innocent human being. That's murder.

Women can obviously do what they like with their pregnancies.

No, they can do what they want with their sexual practices. But once they make an evil decision, an even more evil decision does not correct that.

...you are only pro-choice because you must have had lots of abortions.

Interesting. I didn't say "lots." You did. One is enough, of course. One would still make a person so wracked with guilt as to be unable to see the situation objectively. How could you ever admit to yourself what you've done, if you don't believe there's Anybody to forgive it?