Will God Save Us from Ourselves?

[Dubious]

For me, god is the most useless entity conceptualized by humans as a function of knowing or understanding anything.

For me I marvel at what man has built over the centuries, indeed the millennia. Beautiful Cathedrals and Churches giving hope to people in times of great hardship, indeed places of solace. All because of what one man went through to enlighten the world with His wisdom and love.

Aside from being an inaccurate comprehension of reality, atheism offers nothing.

Yes, the cathedrals and churches are indeed beautiful and majestic as they were meant to be but they were also as much a matter of business as for worship hoping to entice pilgrims - which was big business in those days meant to produce income for the community - to worship the false relics housed in said cathedrals and churches. In short, these structures also had a secular purpose. There wouldn't have been much consolation if that purpose didn't materialize.

It's true; to a theist, atheism offers nothing; but then to an atheist the opposite is true, theism offering nothing but falsification and a thorough mutilation of what is proven to be real.

All because of what one man went through to enlighten the world with His wisdom and love.

Yeah, right!! He didn't express much love when it came down to gentiles. Also, what he taught was already old hat by the time he got around to it.

[attofishpi]

It's true; to a theist, atheism offers nothing; but then to an atheist the opposite is true, theism offering nothing but falsification and a thorough mutilation of what is proven to be real.

What do you mean by 'falsification'?

What do you mean by 'mutilation of what is proven to be real'? - can you provide examples?

All because of what one man went through to enlighten the world with His wisdom and love.

Yeah, right!! He didn't express much love when it came down to gentiles. Also, what he taught was already old hat by the time he got around to it.

Re any issue with gentiles I am only familiar with one occasion where a woman complained about her daughter being possessed by a demon and was rather tough on her initially.

Re old hat - yes some stuff such as the golden rule was out the bag already but I am not familiar with much else though the film zeitgeist did have many comparisons. I considered that the Christ entity may have 'popped' into existence throughout prior time finally culminating in being Jesus and going to His death-resurrection.

Really not certain about such matters. What I do know is God exists and I do believe Jesus was Christ and as advised many times communicated to me...He DID what was purported in the NT.

[Dubious]

What do you mean by 'falsification'?

I mean everything which renounces and purposely obstructs logic, reason and actual history itself beginning with the very first line in the bible and proceeding from there to some silly Adam & Eve story and beyond ending with the sorry and obscene tale of Jesus having to die for our sins. Theists live in their own universe in spite of having to realistically live in this one regardless of their beliefs.

But it also depends on how the god concept is presented to us. Almost all who talk about or believe in god refer to the biblical one belonging to a purely Jewish text of which Christianity and Islam are direct descendants. Millenniums have passed and in spite of everything now known, including the history of how all this derived, people's minds are still in the cradle when it comes to believing such absurdities.

Conversely, if I think of god as an abstract purely impersonal power having nothing to do with any of the above, can I insist it doesn't exist? At that point, logic and reason no-longer apply to determine its status, causing its TO BE or Dasein question to be no-longer worth contemplating.

What I do know is God exists and I do believe Jesus was Christ and as advised many times communicated to me...He DID what was purported in the NT.

If you 'know' god exists and believe Jesus was Christ or the son of god doing as directed in the NT, then so be it. What is left to talk about without going around in circles!

[attofishpi]

What do you mean by 'falsification'?

I mean everything which renounces and purposely obstructs logic, reason and actual history itself..

Surely, logic is only obstructed by someone being inept in applying their logic to what is being presented, and here we are being presented with a Bible -- which God (IF exists) has permitted to be phonetically identical to "buy bull"?

Y would God allow that?

Perhaps God wants reasonable intelligent people to reason? Ergo, not just accept the Bible literally but to rigorously question it.

..beginning with the very first line in the bible

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

So an entity states it created "heaven" and Earth. I admit the heaven bit confuses me but apparently it pertains to stuff we see --> out there beyond the sphere we are stuck upon.

I wouldn't get too upset about that bit.

Now this, this is where things get interesting --from a tech--REAL_IT_Y<---->SIN_A.I. POV..

3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Hey presto!! someone turned a switch on!

..and proceeding from there to some silly Adam & Eve story..

R U certain it is silly?

A_DAM ----> holds water
EVE----> prior to?


We are taught that there are two TREES - the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge.

Seriously, even an atheist must marvel at the intelligence being presented here - wot..how many thousands of years ago?

The garden was planted eastward - every tree good for food. My comprehension of the LOGIC system, the 'S' can be removed rather often in words (the SIN wave IS an 'S'..quanta)

Thus, EASTWARD becomes EAT_WARD. Weather that comes around from the Earth provides WET from the WE-S-T - such that rain falls and feeds the Earth permitting us to EAT in the EA-S-T.

.. and beyond ending with the sorry and obscene tale of Jesus having to die for our sins. Theists live in their own universe in spite of having to realistically live in this one regardless of their beliefs.

Re Je_sus having to die. KNOW He didn't HAVE to die. He chose to do so because.. Y ?

But it also depends on how the god concept is presented to us. Almost all who talk about or believe in god refer to the biblical one belonging to a purely Jewish text of which Christianity and Islam are direct descendants. Millenniums have passed and in spite of everything now known, including the history of how all this derived, people's minds are still in the cradle when it comes to believing such absurdities.

What is absurd? (I'd recommend avoid Islame in this discussion) -- what is absurd about the HIS_STORY of Christ etc..

What I do know is God exists and I do believe Jesus was Christ and as advised many times communicated to me...He DID what was purported in the NT.

If you 'know' god exists and believe Jesus was Christ or the son of god doing as directed in the NT, then so be it. What is left to talk about without going around in circles!

Dunno, I guess we are in some form of forever loop until one of us acknowledges the other is correct.

[Dubious]

Dunno, I guess we are in some form of forever loop until one of us acknowledges the other is correct.

...since that's not a likely scenario, to break the loop, the easiest resolution is simply agree to disagree. There's going to be only one reality which will affect us all in the end; I'd be lying if I presented myself as knowing for certain how that will develop.

[attofishpi]

Dunno, I guess we are in some form of forever loop until one of us acknowledges the other is correct.

...since that's not a likely scenario, to break the loop, the easiest resolution is simply agree to disagree. There's going to be only one reality which will affect us all in the end; I'd be lying if I presented myself as knowing for certain how that will develop.

..well then albeit and so be it.

[Fairy]

Maybe it comes down to whether or not there is a benevolent, loving God. I hope there is, but the skeptic in me who watched Carl Sagan religiously on PBS growing up has his doubts.

None of this, including the question ''Will God Save Us from Ourselves? '' has anything to do with whether there is a Benevolent God or a Malevolent Male God name Ben, or Adam for that matter.

If you suffer it is because of you, if you feel blissful it is because of you. Nobody else is responsible – only you and you alone. You are your hell and your heaven too.

Let's all be Smart Alec's as if we know everything. Wait! We do know Everything, we are Everything. One LOVE All Alone.

It is beautiful to be alone, it is also beautiful to be in love, to be with people. And they are complementary, not contradictory.

Life begins where fear ends.