Pavlov: and the desolate reductionism of science

[Sculptor]

Pavlov constructed his famous experiement conditioning dogs to salivate at the sound of a bell.

He discoered what is know as the Conditioned Reflex

What Pavlov missed in his conclusion is that there was a conscious being between the bell and the salivary glands of the dog's mouth. He reduced the act to a "conditioned response".

However what really happened is that on hearing the bell, the dog remembers that when a bell rings he gets food. He then thinks about food and anticipates it. This is called imaginition. The act of that conscious stimulation is what makes his mouth water. It is my view that Pavlov should never have been allowed any where near dogs or other sensitive animals.

The warm, sensitive, thinking and imaginitive animal is taken out of the equation and thought of as a black box of behaviourlism.
It will be noted that, xperiments on orphaned children, involving drilling a hole in their cheeks and applying electric shocks, were continued by his assistant Nikolay Krasnogorsky.

Nice...

[Impenitent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAizj1BuAMw

Chuck was here...

-Imp

[promethean75]

I had no idea Pavlov was drillin holes in the childrens. Wtf kind of shit is that? I used to be cool with Pav but this changes everything.

[alan1000]

It is always a good idea to read posts carefully (I'm talking to you, Promethean75).

The initial post, by and large, reflects modern orthodox thinking. What is the actual philosophical question being posed here?

[accelafine]

But of course it's ok to shoot dogs and burn them alive as long as it suits your political agenda. Got it.

[alan1000]

If we can return to philosphy for a momennt, what sculptor needs to clarify is the distinction between Pavlov and Skinner on this question.

[Iwannaplato]

If we can return to philosphy for a momennt, what sculptor needs to clarify is the distinction between Pavlov and Skinner on this question.

Pavlov: classical conditioning - association
Skinner: operant conditioning - consequences

Pavlov: acted as if the dogs had no inner life
Skinner: skeptical about the importance and existence of anyone's inner life

Pavlov and Skinner: experimented on living things.

Pavlov and Skinner: both part of the development of behaviorism

Pavlov and Skinner: both kinda cut off from emotions and social intuition and inadvertently cruel - directly on Pavlov's part, indirect on Skinner's part, given the effects of his system of thought and how much and how widely it caught on.