The Fundamental Model of Reality

[Atla]

If like you say…”everyone is in a state of delusion” if that is true, then wouldn’t that state be what is supposed to be?

Imagine if everyone realised they were in this state, knowing they were deluded and stopped associating with the delusion. What then? wouldn’t that be the end of knowledge for everyone?
Wouldn’t everyone just be abiding in thought-free nondual awareness? How would that work in a world that is conditioned to operate within a reality that appears as a space / time dual reality?

Very good question. If we all did as roy suggests, our world would come to a complete standstill. We see reality the way we do because we are designed that way, and it is necessary in order for us to function.

However, 'we' could 'see' things differently, but still function.

For example, 'we' could see that there is no actual separation anywhere, while also knowing that the brain has to 'separate' the One Thing into many, conceived, things because this is the only way that the brain, and human beings, are able to comprehend, understand, and make sense of 'the world'/the Universe' in which they have found "themselves", within.

If you were actually any good at finding the "ACTUAL TRUTH", you would realize that there being no separation anywhere doesn't mean that there is only one mind.

[Fairy]

You are in a state of delusion. Everyone around you is also in a state of delusion.

A cult member is unable to see the reality that a non-member is trying to show them.

If like you say…”everyone is in a state of delusion” if that is true, then wouldn’t that state be what is supposed to be?

Imagine if everyone realised they were in this state, knowing they were deluded and stopped associating with the delusion. What then? wouldn’t that be the end of knowledge for everyone?
Wouldn’t everyone just be abiding in thought-free nondual awareness? How would that work in a world that is conditioned to operate within a reality that appears as a space / time dual reality?

Very good question. If we all did as roy suggests, our world would come to a complete standstill. We see reality the way we do because we are designed that way, and it is necessary in order for us to function.

Thanks, I am inclined to agree it’s a very good question, it’s one of those questions that only the individual who asks it can answer. Since it’s a metaphysical philosophy that points to the fundamental principle of life, which is able to ponder it’s own existence and ask “Who” exactly is aware of the state of delusion, or even the state of thought-free awareness.

Thought would be required for any answer to be possible, so thoughts are an unavoidable and undeniable part of the fundamental aspect of nondual beingness, that is known as the appearance of human experience, else we wouldn’t be able to function. Quite right Harbal

[Fairy]

If like you say…”everyone is in a state of delusion” if that is true, then wouldn’t that state be what is supposed to be?

Imagine if everyone realised they were in this state, knowing they were deluded and stopped associating with the delusion. What then? wouldn’t that be the end of knowledge for everyone?
Wouldn’t everyone just be abiding in thought-free nondual awareness? How would that work in a world that is conditioned to operate within a reality that appears as a space / time dual reality?

Very good question. If we all did as roy suggests, our world would come to a complete standstill. We see reality the way we do because we are designed that way, and it is necessary in order for us to function.

However, 'we' could 'see' things differently, but still function.

For example, 'we' could see that there is no actual separation anywhere, while also knowing that the brain has to 'separate' the One Thing into many, conceived, things because this is the only way that the brain, and human beings, are able to comprehend, understand, and make sense of 'the world'/the Universe' in which they have found "themselves", within.

However, while it is apparently true that people could see things differently. Even though the differences would only be illusory. The differences would always remain, within the illusion of the “seer”anyway.

Either way, it’s all the same difference where there is none, so it won’t matter how reality plays out, it’ll just be different that’s all, and that’s how the thinking human brain is able to function by making those essential associative distinctions between being and not being.

[Age]

Very good question. If we all did as roy suggests, our world would come to a complete standstill. We see reality the way we do because we are designed that way, and it is necessary in order for us to function.

However, 'we' could 'see' things differently, but still function.

For example, 'we' could see that there is no actual separation anywhere, while also knowing that the brain has to 'separate' the One Thing into many, conceived, things because this is the only way that the brain, and human beings, are able to comprehend, understand, and make sense of 'the world'/the Universe' in which they have found "themselves", within.

If you were actually any good at finding the "ACTUAL TRUTH", you would realize that there being no separation anywhere doesn't mean that there is only one mind.

Okay.

Is that what "your" "mind" told 'you' to say and believe is absolutely true?

Or, do 'you' not believe that this is absolutely true? Do 'you' only think or presume this is true?

Or, is it 'you' that is telling "your" 'mind' here to think or believe is true?

In fact, if 'you' actually knew how to find and 'know' what the actual Truth really is here. Are 'you' able to do this?

Also, and by the way, I had already realized that just because there is no actual 'separation', besides within the conceptual thoughts', only,.that this meant there is only One Mind.

There is only One Mind for other reasons.

Why do 'you' believe, absolutely, that there are many minds, and that 'you', "yourself", have your own personal mind?

Or, if you do not, absolutely, believe this is true, then why do 'you' only, partly, believe that it may only be true, or false, instead?

Also, and obviously, for there to be many minds, owned and/or possessed by 'you', human beings, to 'you' "atla", then this means, to 'you' anyway, that there duality exists and that 'you' also believe in dualism, correct?

If no, then are 'you' will to share with 'us' what 'you' actually believe is true and right here?

If no, then why not?

Are 'you' afraid of some thing?

[Age]

If like you say…”everyone is in a state of delusion” if that is true, then wouldn’t that state be what is supposed to be?

Imagine if everyone realised they were in this state, knowing they were deluded and stopped associating with the delusion. What then? wouldn’t that be the end of knowledge for everyone?
Wouldn’t everyone just be abiding in thought-free nondual awareness? How would that work in a world that is conditioned to operate within a reality that appears as a space / time dual reality?

Very good question. If we all did as roy suggests, our world would come to a complete standstill. We see reality the way we do because we are designed that way, and it is necessary in order for us to function.

Thanks, I am inclined to agree it’s a very good question, it’s one of those questions that only the individual who asks it can answer. Since it’s a metaphysical philosophy that points to the fundamental principle of life, which is able to ponder it’s own existence and ask “Who” exactly is aware of the state of delusion, or even the state of thought-free awareness.

What do you mean by 'metaphysical philosophy', and, if only the one who asks the question is the one able to answer the question, the will you answer the question/a here, for 'us'?

If no, then why not?

Thought would be required for any answer to be possible, so thoughts are an unavoidable and undeniable part of the fundamental aspect of nondual beingness,

If I am correct, there has been a saying, 'One, with thought'.

that is known as the appearance of human experience, else we wouldn’t be able to function. Quite right Harbal

Does a new born human baby have thought?

If no, then it can still function, correct?

Or, if a human baby does have thought, then what language are those thoughts in?

[Age]

Very good question. If we all did as roy suggests, our world would come to a complete standstill. We see reality the way we do because we are designed that way, and it is necessary in order for us to function.

However, 'we' could 'see' things differently, but still function.

For example, 'we' could see that there is no actual separation anywhere, while also knowing that the brain has to 'separate' the One Thing into many, conceived, things because this is the only way that the brain, and human beings, are able to comprehend, understand, and make sense of 'the world'/the Universe' in which they have found "themselves", within.

However, while it is apparently true that people could see things differently. Even though the differences would only be illusory.

How is it possible for 'you' to be able to differentiate 'the illusory' from the 'non illusory', while others can not?

The differences would always remain, within the illusion of the “seer”anyway.

So, are 'the difference' that 'you see' within 'the illusion' of 'you', also?

Or, do 'you' not have 'any illusions', at all?

Either way, it’s all the same difference where there is none, so it won’t matter how reality plays out, it’ll just be different that’s all, and that’s how the thinking human brain is able to function by making those essential associative distinctions between being and not being.

That within human bodies there are 'thoughts' is not doubted, but that there 'has to be' 'thoughts' for the human brain to function is in doubt.

See, the human body and human brain can function with just signals alone, but that 'thought' 'comes-to-exist', also, is the result of a previously functioning human body and brain.

Si, a human body can function without 'conceptual thinking'. However, for Life/the Universe,, Itself, to 'come-to-know' they 'Self' It needed a physical body and species with the ability of being being able to grasp, retain, and recall any and all of the knowledge, which is learned through the ability of the One Truly open Mind to be able to learn absolutely any and every thing.

This is where the ability of the Truly amazing brain, with in the human body and human species has come into play. The human brain is able to turn incoming information from the five sense of the body into stored 'thought', or stored 'knowledge' which is then able to be shared with any or all other human knowledge storing and recalling human brains.:

The 'human beings' has evolved because Life/the Universe, Itself, needs, and needed, a biological species with computer storing and recalling abilities to be able to come to know they 'Self'.

There was and is no need for you human beings to know "yourselves", also this is, and was, always going to a consequence of the 'I', {Life, God, Spirit, Universe), coming to know 'It Self'.

[Atla]

However, 'we' could 'see' things differently, but still function.

For example, 'we' could see that there is no actual separation anywhere, while also knowing that the brain has to 'separate' the One Thing into many, conceived, things because this is the only way that the brain, and human beings, are able to comprehend, understand, and make sense of 'the world'/the Universe' in which they have found "themselves", within.

If you were actually any good at finding the "ACTUAL TRUTH", you would realize that there being no separation anywhere doesn't mean that there is only one mind.

Okay.

Is that what "your" "mind" told 'you' to say and believe is absolutely true?

Or, do 'you' not believe that this is absolutely true? Do 'you' only think or presume this is true?

Or, is it 'you' that is telling "your" 'mind' here to think or believe is true?

In fact, if 'you' actually knew how to find and 'know' what the actual Truth really is here. Are 'you' able to do this?

Also, and by the way, I had already realized that just because there is no actual 'separation', besides within the conceptual thoughts', only,.that this meant there is only One Mind.

There is only One Mind for other reasons.

Why do 'you' believe, absolutely, that there are many minds, and that 'you', "yourself", have your own personal mind?

Or, if you do not, absolutely, believe this is true, then why do 'you' only, partly, believe that it may only be true, or false, instead?

Also, and obviously, for there to be many minds, owned and/or possessed by 'you', human beings, to 'you' "atla", then this means, to 'you' anyway, that there duality exists and that 'you' also believe in dualism, correct?

If no, then are 'you' will to share with 'us' what 'you' actually believe is true and right here?

If no, then why not?

Are 'you' afraid of some thing?

We already talked about your one mind idea, where you couldn't argue for it at all, and have now forgotten that it happened. You were too afraid to face that you are delusional and ran away. Also, you're the dualist, not me.

[Age]

If you were actually any good at finding the "ACTUAL TRUTH", you would realize that there being no separation anywhere doesn't mean that there is only one mind.

Okay.

Is that what "your" "mind" told 'you' to say and believe is absolutely true?

Or, do 'you' not believe that this is absolutely true? Do 'you' only think or presume this is true?

Or, is it 'you' that is telling "your" 'mind' here to think or believe is true?

In fact, if 'you' actually knew how to find and 'know' what the actual Truth really is here. Are 'you' able to do this?

Also, and by the way, I had already realized that just because there is no actual 'separation', besides within the conceptual thoughts', only,.that this meant there is only One Mind.

There is only One Mind for other reasons.

Why do 'you' believe, absolutely, that there are many minds, and that 'you', "yourself", have your own personal mind?

Or, if you do not, absolutely, believe this is true, then why do 'you' only, partly, believe that it may only be true, or false, instead?

Also, and obviously, for there to be many minds, owned and/or possessed by 'you', human beings, to 'you' "atla", then this means, to 'you' anyway, that there duality exists and that 'you' also believe in dualism, correct?

If no, then are 'you' will to share with 'us' what 'you' actually believe is true and right here?

If no, then why not?

Are 'you' afraid of some thing?

We already talked about your one mind idea,

LOL "atla". you outright and absolutely rejected that idea, which by the way you have never even 'looked into' nor 'discussed' at all, because of your pre-existing belief that 'you', and others, have what you call 'your own minds'.

I have not even begun to, really, talk about the idea, and Fact, that there is only One Mind, with you.

where you couldn't argue for it at all, and have now forgotten that it happened.

This here is another prime example of what happens when people, in the 'olden day's, were absolutely closed off to any 'new idea'. This one here is showing, exactly, how people 'misbehaved' when told of the 'new idea' that, actually, it is the earth that revolves around the sun.

People, just like "atla", instantly rejected 'the idea', solely based on absolutely nothing at all except for their own already obtained and 'currently' held on pre-existing beliefs.

If a 'new idea' did not align with one's 'current' belief, then the 'new idea' was instantly dismissed, never 'looked into', never 'discussed', and just outright rejected, completely and absolutely.

The Mind is OPEN to any and every thing. The brain, however, through the 'belief-system' can be shut-closed, and locked solid.

You were too afraid to face that you are delusional and ran away. Also, you're the dualist, not me.

This is how absolutely closed and blind here.

Also, let 'us' not forget that the one who was just trying to express that, 'Actually it is the earth that revolves around the sun', and not the other way around, which you all believe is true, was also 'the one' who was continually accused of being 'delusional'.

And, as for 'me' 'running away' "atla", why do you make this claim and accusation, here? Obviously, well to some anyway, 'I' am the one who is still here.

Furthermore, as to 'your claim' that 'I' am a "dualist", this proves that 'you', obviously, still have absolutely no idea nor clue as to who and what 'you' human beings are, exactly, nor to who and what 'I' am, exactly.

By the way, 'you' believe, absolutely, that there are many minds', but then go on to also, contradictory, claim that 'you' are not a "dualist".

The hypocrisy and contradictions from this one continue.

[Atla]

Okay.

Is that what "your" "mind" told 'you' to say and believe is absolutely true?

Or, do 'you' not believe that this is absolutely true? Do 'you' only think or presume this is true?

Or, is it 'you' that is telling "your" 'mind' here to think or believe is true?

In fact, if 'you' actually knew how to find and 'know' what the actual Truth really is here. Are 'you' able to do this?

Also, and by the way, I had already realized that just because there is no actual 'separation', besides within the conceptual thoughts', only,.that this meant there is only One Mind.

There is only One Mind for other reasons.

Why do 'you' believe, absolutely, that there are many minds, and that 'you', "yourself", have your own personal mind?

Or, if you do not, absolutely, believe this is true, then why do 'you' only, partly, believe that it may only be true, or false, instead?

Also, and obviously, for there to be many minds, owned and/or possessed by 'you', human beings, to 'you' "atla", then this means, to 'you' anyway, that there duality exists and that 'you' also believe in dualism, correct?

If no, then are 'you' will to share with 'us' what 'you' actually believe is true and right here?

If no, then why not?

Are 'you' afraid of some thing?

We already talked about your one mind idea,

LOL "atla". you outright and absolutely rejected that idea, which by the way you have never even 'looked into' nor 'discussed' at all, because of your pre-existing belief that 'you', and others, have what you call 'your own minds'.

I have not even begun to, really, talk about the idea, and Fact, that there is only One Mind, with you.

where you couldn't argue for it at all, and have now forgotten that it happened.

This here is another prime example of what happens when people, in the 'olden day's, were absolutely closed off to any 'new idea'. This one here is showing, exactly, how people 'misbehaved' when told of the 'new idea' that, actually, it is the earth that revolves around the sun.

People, just like "atla", instantly rejected 'the idea', solely based on absolutely nothing at all except for their own already obtained and 'currently' held on pre-existing beliefs.

If a 'new idea' did not align with one's 'current' belief, then the 'new idea' was instantly dismissed, never 'looked into', never 'discussed', and just outright rejected, completely and absolutely.

The Mind is OPEN to any and every thing. The brain, however, through the 'belief-system' can be shut-closed, and locked solid.

You were too afraid to face that you are delusional and ran away. Also, you're the dualist, not me.

This is how absolutely closed and blind here.

Also, let 'us' not forget that the one who was just trying to express that, 'Actually it is the earth that revolves around the sun', and not the other way around, which you all believe is true, was also 'the one' who was continually accused of being 'delusional'.

And, as for 'me' 'running away' "atla", why do you make this claim and accusation, here? Obviously, well to some anyway, 'I' am the one who is still here.

Furthermore, as to 'your claim' that 'I' am a "dualist", this proves that 'you', obviously, still have absolutely no idea nor clue as to who and what 'you' human beings are, exactly, nor to who and what 'I' am, exactly.

By the way, 'you' believe, absolutely, that there are many minds', but then go on to also, contradictory, claim that 'you' are not a "dualist".

The hypocrisy and contradictions from this one continue.

Age is so remarkably ignorant that she thinks that the "one mind" is a new idea. That alone says it all.

[Fairy]

What do you mean by 'metaphysical philosophy', and, if only the one who asks the question is the one able to answer the question, the will you answer the question/a here, for 'us'?

If no, then why not?

Metaphysical philosophy is pointing to the one who is beyond the separate sense of I which is the personal self. It's the realisation of one's nondual nature, the neutral self, the one who is non-reactive to thought. The one who is aware of thought, but is not the thought, the nameless one so to speak.

[Atla]

What do you mean by 'metaphysical philosophy', and, if only the one who asks the question is the one able to answer the question, the will you answer the question/a here, for 'us'?

If no, then why not?

Metaphysical philosophy is pointing to the one who is beyond the separate sense of I which is the personal self. It's the realisation of one's nondual nature, the neutral self, the one who is non-reactive to thought. The one who is aware of thought, but is not the thought, the nameless one so to speak.

The 'neutral self' is simply existence, the world, why do you personify it?

[Fairy]

If I am correct, there has been a saying, 'One, with thought'.

Yes, one with thought is correct. There is always here the one who is aware of thought that can ascertain the difference between itself as being first and foremost the neutral one, who is aware of thought, but does not say or claim to be the one who is aware aware of thought, which is an illusory duality.

That's the difference, the difference being the neutral one does not claim it is the one who is talking and walking. Only the sense of I am a separate one is the one who claims to be the talking and walking doing one. But saying there needs to be a sense of I am a separate one for things to happen is false, because everything that is happening, is happening completely by itself, and you are that happening.

It feels like there is an I person that is breathing, walking and talking, and doing things, but that's all functioning by itself, that is the proper self.

[Fairy]

Does a new born human baby have thought?

If no, then it can still function, correct?

Or, if a human baby does have thought, then what language are those thoughts in?

The baby is the thought, that the neutral one is being aware of, the thought I am a baby is a false claim, because the one who is aware of being a baby does not need to make the claim I am a baby in order to exist, it already exists whether the thought I am a baby or not appears. The one who is aware of the thought I am a baby, never claims to be the one aware of the baby thought.

The baby is always the neutral one who is functioning all by itself without the need to claim it is the one who is functioning as and through the baby, which is just a thought appearing in the neutral one, but is not that one.

[Fairy]

The 'neutral self' is simply existence, the world, why do you personify it?

The personification just happens to appear all by itself within existence itself, appearances are happening all by itself. It is existence itself that is simply aware of personification happening as an appearance, as if there is a sense of doership, like I am aware I am personifying this awareness to be a separate object to myself. There is no awareness in the separate self, because it's simply an appearance already being awared by the neutral one. The sense of there being Separate selves have no existence apart from the nondual pure neutral awareness itself, which is all of existence as a whole.

[Atla]

The 'neutral self' is simply existence, the world, why do you personify it?

The personification just happens to appear all by itself within existence itself, appearances are happening all by itself. It is existence itself that is simply aware of personification happening as an appearance, as if there is a sense of doership, like I am aware I am personifying this awareness to be a separate object to myself. There is no awareness in the separate self, because it's simply an appearance already being awared by the neutral one. The sense of there being Separate selves have no existence apart from the nondual pure neutral awareness itself, which is all of existence as a whole.

No offense, but imo this wording just sounds like the typical misguided beginner nondualism. Both the Hindus and the Buddhists often make the mistake of ascribing a special status to awareness. It's a secondary dualism smuggled back in, it's not 'pure' nondualism.

The pure nondual self doesn't have qualities like awareness. It's not a big entity that's 'aware of itself'. It's not a being in any sense of the world, unless proven so. The pure nondual self is simply existence itself, the world, it's simply existence itself that people keep conflating with awareness.

Awaraness as in self-awareness is a typical feature of the human mind, it's also part of existence just like rocks are. Most people reach self-awareness in early childhood.