WOKE and proud of it....

[Alexis Jacobi]

Well, according to IC, that might not be as scandalous to him as it is to others. I can imagine left wing pro-Palestinian "woke" protestors in agreement with you on that.

First, the term for one’s orientation we are using here — the woke, wokeness — is thoroughly inadequate for productive conversation.

To say that The Woke take the side of Palestinians, and their opposites (not defined) •support Israel•, will lead to an absurd discussion, framed incorrectly.

One will have to choose to exit this absurd framing just to get to a point where the actual, real issues could be discussed.

Sadly, this is not a possibility for IC whose perspectives are determined nearly entirely by Christian Zionism.

This might interest.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I haven't given much thought to his point of view, but one of my favorite long form journalists in recent years is David Grann. The movie Killers of the Flower Moon is based on his book (which I've read). It certainly is controversial, as are his other books and New Yorker pieces.

Bad example. He does not write on political topics — the zone where controversy and disagreement abounds.

[Gary Childress]

Well, according to IC, that might not be as scandalous to him as it is to others. I can imagine left wing pro-Palestinian "woke" protestors in agreement with you on that.

First, the term for one’s orientation we are using here — the woke, wokeness — is thoroughly inadequate for productive conversation.

So are you suggesting that "woke" is not a good description to plaster across the left? In that case we agree.

As far as "antisemitism" there are social justice advocates who have been fighting that label also. Chomsky is often referred to as a "self hating Jew". Some on the left who protest the Israeli response in Gaza have been given that label as well. Not to say that there aren't such things as antisemites who just hate Jews and openly wave swastikas and what not to assert their prejudices. That's out there too. But overall, I think most people are more interested in seeing innocent people's lives spared whether Palestinian or Jew.

[Alexiev]

I haven't given much thought to his point of view, but one of my favorite long form journalists in recent years is David Grann. The movie Killers of the Flower Moon is based on his book (which I've read). It certainly is controversial, as are his other books and New Yorker pieces.

Bad example. He does not write on political topics — the zone where controversy and disagreement abounds.

The attempts to gain oil rights from the Osage was political and controversial. I'm sorry if my examples don't suit your argument. Oh, well. I gave a political example earlier: straight reporting about some law being passed.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I haven't given much thought to his point of view, but one of my favorite long form journalists in recent years is David Grann. The movie Killers of the Flower Moon is based on his book (which I've read). It certainly is controversial, as are his other books and New Yorker pieces.

Bad example. He does not write on political topics — the zone where controversy and disagreement abounds.

The attempts to gain oil rights from the Osage was political and controversial. I'm sorry if my examples don't suit your argument. Oh, well. I gave a political example earlier: straight reporting about some law being passed.

That Osage issue is over 100 years old. It cannot have the topical heat that roils in contemporary American politics.

You have therefore not presented an example of a MSM journalist whose article we could examine for integrity and honestly.

I agree that many journalists have leeway in what they can report, but my overall view is that the lines of journalism opinion are controlled (by their corporate owners).

I do not know where to turn for •objective journalism• today. There are independent journalists (YouTube, Rumble, Bitchute) who have platforms where they say things the MSM will not allow. But they, too, are partisans of particular orientations. And in this sense they cater to their audience (and their audience supports them through donations).

But there is no MSM outlet (that I am aware of) that offers a balanced perspective. Why? Because we really do not know what that is supposed to be.

Socially, politically, it is a time of discord and of extremely different perceptual orientations. One could only report fairly if one kept out of the fray. But on the big-money platforms that might be impossible, given the stakes.

[Alexiev]

Bad example. He does not write on political topics — the zone where controversy and disagreement abounds.

The attempts to gain oil rights from the Osage was political and controversial. I'm sorry if my examples don't suit your argument. Oh, well. I gave a political example earlier: straight reporting about some law being passed.

That Osage issue is over 100 years old. It cannot have the topical heat that roils in contemporary American politics.

You have therefore not presented an example of a MSM journalist whose article we could examine for integrity and honestly.

I agree that many journalists have leeway in what they can report, but my overall view is that the lines of journalism opinion are controlled (by their corporate owners).

I do not know where to turn for •objective journalism• today. There are independent journalists (YouTube, Rumble, Bitchute) who have platforms where they say things the MSM will not allow. But they, too, are partisans of particular orientations. And in this sense they cater to their audience (and their audience supports them through donations).

But there is no MSM outlet (that I am aware of) that offers a balanced perspective. Why? Because we really do not know what that is supposed to be.

Socially, politically, it is a time of discord and of extremely different perceptual orientations. One could only report fairly if one kept out of the fray. But on the big-money platforms that might be impossible, given the stakes.

I'm not going to bother looking up examples, but I disagree. Of course what you call "journalism opinion" is, well, opinionated. It is also "controlled" by corporate owners, in that they hire the editorialists and the op Ed. writers. We cannot assume that such control inevitably leads to biased points of view and, worse, misrepresentation of the facts. Clearly it sometimes does. But the mainstream media (I think) is less biased and more accurate in reporting factual information than less well known media. The better known the outlet, the more criticism it will receive for misinforming the public.

One problem is that TV news channels hire editorializing talking heads. They do so because blabbing about the news is far cheaper than actually reporting it. Hire one talking head and your ratings remain equal to those of a full newsroom. As much as I despise Sean Hannity, I may hate Rachel Maddow even more. She's always smuggly hinting at things, without actually reporting on them.

My original point stands. Most mainstrean reporters work hard to report the facts. Of course the news media is replete with editoralusts, columnists, tv agitators, and other media types whose job is different, and who often misrepresent facts or, at least, pick and choose which ones to mention.

[Consul]

Hard to argue with those stats..

WE WANT VIOLENT CRIME - NO BORDER CONTROL - LETS VOTE FOR LABOUR!!!

Here's what Hein de Haas, a leading migration expert, writes:

"Myth 12: Immigration sends crime rates soaring

[T]he evidence undermines the myth that immigration has sent crime rates soaring. In fact, this myth is a double myth. The first part is that immigration increases crime. The second is that crime rates have gone up. In fact, the reverse is true: not only is there solid evidence that immigration lowers crime, but crime rates have actually gone down! A major study of trends in crime data between 1988 and 2004 across twenty-six Western countries showed reductions of 77.1 per cent in theft from cars, 60.3 per cent in theft from persons, 26 per cent in burglary, 20.6 per cent in assault and 16.8 per cent in car theft. In the United States, between 1990 and 2013, violent crime and property crime went down by 50 and 46 per cent, respectively.

Murder (homicide) rates have decreased in nearly all Western countries, too. For instance, between 1991 and 2019, intentional murder rates in the UK dropped from an annual rate of 1.0 to 0.5 per 100,000 inhabitants, while in Germany they dropped from 1.4 to 0.7 and in France from 1.7 to 0.8. Although murder rates are much higherin the US, the long drop in annual murder rates, from 10.2 per 100,000 inhabitants in 1991 to 5.4 in 2019 has been remarkable.

Our societies have actually become safer while immigration populations have grown. This is largely a spurious correlation, however, as these drops in crime are mainly explained by factors such as income growth, better education, decreasing unemployment and population ageing. However, in contrast to what politicians suggest, immigration has reinforced rather than decelerated the crime drop in Western countries, as immigrants are generally less criminal than the native-born. Crime is more prevalent among the second generation of some immigrant groups that experienced downward assimilation into adversarial urban subcultures that can become conducive to crime. However, there is no evidence that particular ethnic, racial or religious backgrounds are inherently more prone to criminal conduct. Because some immigrant-origin and minority groups are over-represented among the poor and the unemployed, these groups are also tend to be over-represented in crime statistics.

However, prejudice and racial profiling make minority groups a disproportionate target of arrest, sentencing and imprisonment, perpetuating a vicious cycle of prejudice, segregation and disadvantage. This is a serious problem, as it reinforces the feeling of being treated like second-class citizens, reducing trust among discriminated-against groups in the willingness of police and the government to protect them. It can further contribute to a culture of hostility, resistance and distrust towards the police, judiciary and governments. This is particularly true in a political climate where influential politicians and the media accuse migrants of committing the most heinous crimes.

This is not a reason to deny, trivialize or soft-pedal real problems that exist. The disproportionate involvement in crime or intimidating behaviour among some marginalized minority youth is a serious problem, not only because it can make neighbourhoods unsafe and unpleasant to live in, but also because it keeps putting these groups at a disadvantage. However, in order to effectively address and avoid such problems, it is important to understand their causes. Besides the problem of racial profiling, crime is strongly linked with economic marginalization and particularly the socially, morally and mentally crippling consequences of racist discrimination and long-term unemployment.

This shows these problems can only really be tackled if effective law enforcement is combined with policies that actively counter racial profiling and job market discrimination and give disadvantaged youth real opportunities for social mobility through education and work – regardless of their racial or ethnic background."

(de Haas, Hein. How Migration Really Works: A Factful Guide to the Most Divisive Issue in Politics. New York: Viking/Penguin, 2023. pp. 206-8)

[Alexiev]

Nice pist, Consul.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Oh for fuck’s sake! A migration advocate. A notable difference.

This goes to Ibn Wilbur al-Boneman‘s point: (paraphrased, perhaps expanded): facts are selected and narratives are woven around them.

Who are you people!!

Have you no self-consciousness??!!

In his work, De Haas has advanced a new, long-term view of migration as an intrinsic part of global change and development. He is lead author of The Age of Migration: International Population Movements in the Modern World, a seminal text book in the field of migration studies.

His new book How Migration Really Works: A Factful Guide to the Most Divisive Issue in Politics was be published by Penguin in November 2023 (US edition with Basic Books) as well as in German, Dutch, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Greek and Korean translations.

He previously consulted for the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), the ILO (International Labour Organisation), the IOM (International Organisation for Migration), the United Nations Research Institute for Social Development (UNRISD), Oxfam Novib, the European Commission (Joint Research Centre), the UK Government Office of Science, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship of the Australian government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands,

[attofishpi]

What form of government have the UK voter allowed to control IMPORTANT information such that they refuse to allow it for a pathetic reason as that..

As of 2010, that'll be a Conservative government.

..thanks to continuous lying to the British voter that they will reduce net migration.

[attofishpi]

What do you think that graph shows? As far as I can make out, it just says that of the people charged with violent crimes in Denmark, blacks and Arabs are more likely to be convicted. It doesn't say anything about who is more likely to commit violent crimes. As it happens, according to Danmarks Statistik,
https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/s ... e-personer
most crime in Denmark is committed by Danes. Whodda thunk?

Sure, so Danes are higher represented in lots of the more 'petty' crimes in those stats clearly.

The graph is purely VIOLENT crimes..(RELATIVE to POPULATION)

Conviction rate of VIOLENT crime relative to native DANES.

[attofishpi]

Hard to argue with those stats..

WE WANT VIOLENT CRIME - NO BORDER CONTROL - LETS VOTE FOR LABOUR!!!

Here's what Hein de Haas, a leading migration expert, writes:

What he writes is either pure rubbish or based ONLY on LEGAL MIGRATION - not the tidal wave of illegals.


The LINK IS HERE as to where the stats came from:-
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-violent-c ... m=referral

Headline:
Germany recorded more than 214,000 criminal acts of violence last year, according to official police statistics.


Germany recorded a large rise in violent crime in 2023, the first year without pandemic restrictions, police statistics published Saturday showed.

Welt am Sonntag, which gained exclusive access to the data, said violent crime climbed 8.6%, to 214,099 cases — a 15-year high.

The newspaper said there was a nearly 7% increase in cases of dangerous and serious bodily harm, with 154,541 cases recorded — the highest number ever.

Cases of intentional simple bodily harm increased by 7.4% to 429,157.

More crime overall; Berlin is least safe state
Overall, the number of crimes recorded in Germany rose to 5.94 million last year, an increase of 5.5% over 2023 and 9.3% higher than in 2019, before the pandemic.

The number of suspects arrested rose by 7.3% to 2.246 million and 41.3% of them did not have a German passport.

Among the people without German nationality who were charged, 402,514 were described as refugees, asylum seekers and those who entered the country illegally.

In 2023, the offense of unauthorized entry rose 40% over the previous year, to 93,158 cases, while the offense of unauthorized stay increased by nearly 29% to 187,059 cases.

A third of crimes (1.971 million) were theft offenses, which rose 10.7% last year.

Berlin recorded the biggest rise in burglaries out of all German states, with an increase of 35.2%.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The Terrifying Rise of The Woke

[Consul]

Here's what Hein de Haas, a leading migration expert, writes:

What he writes is either pure rubbish or based ONLY on LEGAL MIGRATION - not the tidal wave of illegals.
The LINK IS HERE as to where the stats came from:-
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-violent-c ... m=referral

Headline:
Germany recorded more than 214,000 criminal acts of violence last year, according to official police statistics.

Germany recorded a large rise in violent crime in 2023, the first year without pandemic restrictions, police statistics published Saturday showed.
Welt am Sonntag, which gained exclusive access to the data, said violent crime climbed 8.6%, to 214,099 cases — a 15-year high.

It is correct that there has been a significant increase of the number of violent crimes in Germany during the last three years, which is not mentioned in de Haas' book.



Source: Official Police Crime Statistics Germany 2023 [in German]

The number of criminal non-Germans in Germany has significantly increased too, but so has the number of non-Germans in Germany. And as you can gather from the following figure, given the nearly parallel increase of the number of non-Germans, the percentage of criminal non-Germans among the non-Germans in Germany has not increased. There even seems to be a small decrease!

Moreover, I also read that ~33% of the victims of violent crimes are non-Germans (foreign citizens), but only ~15% of the population of Germany are non-Germans. This means that non-Germans in Germany are more likely to become victims of violent crimes than Germans!

[The blue columns and the numbers on the left side show the respective absolute numbers of non-Germans in Germany, and the red dots and the numbers on the right side show the respective absolute numbers of criminals among them.]

[Consul]

Oh for fuck’s sake! A migration advocate. A notable difference.

There's a notable difference between a migration expert who cares about facts, and an anti-migration demagogue who doesn't!