has philosophy lost its way?

[iambiguous]

Is Philosophy still Relevant?
Pantagruel from a thread at The Philosophy Forum

Has our civilization evolved to the point where philosophy can be dispensed with?

Well, it certainly appears to have evolved such that more and more human interactions seem to revolve around pop culture, social media, the "consumption of mass quantities", and the clamor for one's 15 minutes of fame. Most no longer have philosophies of life so much pursuits of particular lifestyles.

At its inception, Philosophy was really an amalgam of all knowledge. However, with the diremption of philosophy and science since Bacon, and the ever-increasing hegemony of science (technology), has philosophy moved from being an "outlier" to a superfluous branch of study?

So, shouldn't the main focus then be on exploring what can and [perhaps] cannot be known by mere mortals? The distinction I make here is between a God and a No God world. With God, the One True Path seems unequivocal. But without God?

Then those among us who insist that what they know -- about everything? -- is in fact a reflection of one or another religious creed or political dogma or school of philosophy.

Specific "tangible" areas, such as formal logic, could be assimilated into sciences such as math. While others could become the stuff of history? Does philosophy still contribute? When you are reading it, do you feel you are contributing?

Reading it and writing it are one thing. Connecting the dots between words and worlds another thing altogether.

Given a particular context.

[iambiguous]

Is Philosophy still Relevant?
Leontiskos from a thread at The Philosophy Forum

I know this is a bit different than what you are getting at, but there is an important sense in which philosophy was never relevant. Socrates was executed; Aristotle fled for his life; Plato felt impotent before the Athenian polis and the demos; the Hellenistic philosophers were very often proto-monastic groups, living apart from society and its norms. Philosophy was often granted importance where there was religious ascendency, but that has now passed. In many ways our modern pragmatism which is averse to philosophy is not so different from the past.

On the other hand, how would one go about establishing that all of this is in fact true? Philosophically or otherwise. And how would one go about factoring in all of the extraordinary changes that have unfolded given pragmatism back then and pragmatism today?

As always, there are factors that never change much at all over the centuries. Those biological imperatives embedded in the human genome, or the fact that one way or another there are things we absolutely must have in order to subsist at all...food, water, shelter.

And then down through the ages, we have witnessed any number of profound social, political and economic upheavals -- spiritual movements, ideological dogmas, religious crusades, struggles revolving around race or gender or sexual orientation.

And doesn't pragmatism today basically revolve around what's left of democracy and the rule of law around the globe? It's the "my way or the highway" objectivists who want that gone. Then the millions upon millions who live their lives wholly in sync with pop culture and mindless consumption. Then the part that political economy plays in sustaining an amoral "show me the money" mentality in regard to the global economy.

Is it really possible for philosophers to reconfigure all of this into one or another "most rational" rendition of "the best of all possible worlds"? Or a modern-day Platonic Republic sustained by philosopher kings? Or, today, philosopher queens as well?

[Systematic]

Philosophy Has Lost Its Way

Of course philosophy has lost its way. It's about knowing things--not just believing them.

[Impenitent]

justified and true?

-Imp

[iambiguous]

Is Philosophy still Relevant?
Fooloso4 from a thread at The Philosophy Forum

...there is an important sense in which philosophy was never relevant. — Leontiskos

I think this overstates the case. We still read Plato and Aristotle. They played the long political game and made significant advances for freedom of inquiry and thought.

Or does this too overstate the case? For me the bottom line is always the same...we read particular philosophers and decide whether, given our own political prejudices rooted existentially in dasein, they share our own significantly advanced understanding of that which encompasses freedom of inquiry and thought.

Then those like me who insist we take our theoretical assessments down out of the technical clouds and defend them existentially against those who embrace conflicting assessments.

The philosopher has established his place in the cave alongside the poets, theologians, politicians, and sophists.

But what we still have not established, however, is the manner in which we go about differentiating human interactions from either inside or outside of the cave. Whose interpretation of the shadows on the cave wall? Whose interpretation of the Theory of Forms for those able to leave the cave and "see the light". In other words, share Plato's own assessment of a Republic governed by philosopher kings.

The relationship between the philosopher and the city rests on two things: the return to the cave and their being able to mind their own business.

Or else?

The former is done in part for the sake of the latter. If the tension between the city and philosophy is to be managed the philosopher must prove to be of benefit to the city. The extent that this is no longer a primary problem is a testament to the success of philosopher. While Plato created a civic religion, its effectiveness depends on the appearance of being something else, namely the truth.

Cue, among others, Machiavelli?

Nowadays, philosophers outside of academia and the APA are not exactly the rock stars that they once were down through the ages in particular cultures and communities. And from my frame of mind that revolves largely around the gap between the way professional philosophers discuss philosophy in the hallowed halls and the relevance of that to the lives we actually live.

[iambiguous]

Is Philosophy still Relevant?
Fooloso4 from a thread at The Philosophy Forum

I agree with Nietzsche:

"THE REAL PHILOSOPHERS, HOWEVER, ARE COMMANDERS AND LAW-GIVERS; they say: "Thus SHALL it be!" They determine first the Whither and the Why of mankind, and thereby set aside the previous labour of all philosophical workers, and all subjugators of the past--they grasp at the future with a creative hand, and whatever is and was, becomes for them thereby a means, an instrument, and a hammer. Their "knowing" is CREATING, their creating is a law-giving, their will to truth is--WILL TO POWER. --Are there at present such philosophers? Have there ever been such philosophers? MUST there not be such philosophers some day? . . . (BGE, 211)

On the other hand, isn't that when Nietzsche invents the Ubermensch so that at least the law-givers and commanders are the "best and brightest"?

While much is made of Nietzsche’s Dionysian desires, it is the Apollonian maxim: know thyself, that is central to Nietzsche.

Right. And when Nietzsche bumped into others who, given the manner in which they know themselves in the world around them, fierce conflicts arose?

Again, the classic example of this Know Thyself mentality, in my opinion, are these FFO: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/

Of course, if how you've come to know yourself is not entirely in sync with how they have come to know themselves...?

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But to know yourself you must become who you are. This is not a matter of discovery but of creation. Nietzsche takes the exhortation to become who you are from the Greek poet Pindar. For both Plato and Nietzsche philosophy is a form of poiesis. Their knowing is creating. The "ancient quarrel between philosophy and poetry" is an interfamilial matter.

Talk about a "general description intellectual contraption"! We basically become who we think are given the existential components of our individual lives out in a particular world.

As for creation, isn't this largely what many of these folks...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ideologies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... philosophy
...champion themselves?

Clearly, if you create what you know then you had best be particularly intrigued by how you come to acquire a sense of identity in the first place.

[iambiguous]

Is Philosophy still Relevant?
Fooloso4 from a thread at The Philosophy Forum

While much is made of Nietzsche’s Dionysian desires, it is the Apollonian maxim: know thyself, that is central to Nietzsche. But to know yourself you must become who you are. This is not a matter of discovery but of creation.

And, of course, any number of us are convinced not only that we do know who we are, but that others had damn well better come around to the same conclusions if they wish to be thought of as either Enlightened or Saved. Also, for the overwhelming preponderance of us, we create little or nothing. Instead, we are indoctrinated as children to believe what we then sustain all the way to the grave. Or, re the Benjamin Button Syndrome, the dots are connected and we find ourselves on one of those paths above.

Nietzsche takes the exhortation to become who you are from the Greek poet Pindar. For both Plato and Nietzsche philosophy is a form of poiesis. Their knowing is creating. The "ancient quarrel between philosophy and poetry" is an interfamilial matter.

And, with any luck from Mother Nature, you come into this world with Übermensch encoded right into your genes. As for that interfamilial matter between philosophy and poetry, I'm afraid I'll still need "a context". How is that factored into your own life?

Thus...

Studying and teaching philosophy does not make one a "real philosopher". Like Plato, Nietzsche is an elitist.

Just one more example of how, down through the ages, the "philosopher-king" mentality is merely attached to different moral and political prejudices.

The real philosopher is the rare exception. Whatever light the philosopher brings to the cave it remains a cave. The transformation brought about by philosophy is self-transformation.

Same thing.

Do you deem yourself to be a real philosopher? Okay, bring that down to Earth. How do you square the Apollonian and the Dionysian in your own relationships with others?

[iambiguous]

Why Is Philosophy Important Today, and How Can It Improve Your Life?
From clarity to tolerance: here’s your quick guide to why philosophy is important today, as well as how it can improve your life.

By Jack Maden from Philosophy Break

Philosophy essentially involves thinking hard about life’s big questions, including...why we are here, how we can know anything about the world, and what our lives are for.

And given fascinating, mind-boggling questions like this, one would imagine practically everyone would eventually come around to philosophy.

Yet few do. In part because it's not likely to be broached while indoctrinating children around the globe. Instead, in most families, neighborhoods, communities and nations, kids are taught to embrace a particular philosophy of life. God or No God.

Here at Philosophy Break, we believe the practice of philosophy is the antidote to a world saturated by information, and the more that people engage with philosophy, the more fulfilling their lives will be.

This seems to suggest that information doesn't really count until you're pinned down the most rational philosophy of life in which to truly understand it and integrate it into your interactions with others.

And, sure, philosophy has made the lives of any number of us fulfilling. I suspect, however, that revolves largely around the fact that just being on the One True path [it could be any of them] is the whole point of embracing a philosophy of life. The psychology of objectivism, I call it.

The addictive nature of the digital world, for instance, afflicts many of us. The relentless torrent of information saturates our attention spans.

Still, in the digital world, we are ever confronted with closing the gap between the information that we believe "in our head" and the information that we can actually demonstrate all reasonable men and women are obligated to believe in as well.

Then the contexts.

[iambiguous]

Why Is Philosophy Important Today, and How Can It Improve Your Life?
From clarity to tolerance: here’s your quick guide to why philosophy is important today, as well as how it can improve your life.
By Jack Maden from Philosophy Break

As Roman Stoic philosopher Seneca put it almost 2,000 years ago in his brilliant treatise, On the Shortness of Life:

"It is not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it. Life is long enough, and a sufficiently generous amount has been given to us for the highest achievements if it were all well invested. But when it is wasted in heedless luxury and spent on no good activity, we are forced at last by death’s final constraint to realize that it has passed away before we knew it was passing. So it is: we are not given a short life but we make it short, and we are not ill-supplied but wasteful of it… Life is long if you know how to use it."

Talk about a "general description philosophical contraption"! Isn't this just another example of positing things like "time wasted" and "higher achievements" and "heedless luxury" and "good activities" as though philosophers are actually able to make accurate assessments of when time is wasted, what achievements are the highest, what possessions are needless luxuries and what activities are good.

Streaming services hook us into one more episode, those of us with smartphones check them without thinking; but the compulsion to watch, to shop, to hit refresh on our newsfeeds — all of it can be reined in by contemplating the world around us, and our place within it.

In other words, the modern world is bursting at the seams with scientific knowledge and information, technologies and engineering feats, and all manner of extraordinary social, political and economic changes that those like Senaca way back then had absolutely no clue regarding.

How can we best spend our lives on earth? What makes you happy? What gives you purpose?

And, yes, if some are able to convince themselves that philosophy was able to provide them with answers that enabled them, in turn, to embrace a particular path that comforts and consoles them all the way to the grave...?

[iambiguous]

Why Is Philosophy Important Today, and How Can It Improve Your Life?
From clarity to tolerance: here’s your quick guide to why philosophy is important today, as well as how it can improve your life.
By Jack Maden from Philosophy Break

A lot of the anxieties and uncertainties we feel in our lives, from wondering if our occupations give us the meaning we need, to not being able to come to terms with death, are at root philosophical problems.

And then those like me who suggest that one can live a largely fulfilling life without the need for either one or another philosophy of life or one or another One True Path. Or one or another essential meaning and purpose. Think of all the things you can choose to do from day to day to day that bring you great pleasure. It might revolve around the food you eat, the relationships you pursue, a job you love, music you listen to, sports you enjoy, hobbies that sustain you. As for coming to terms with death, that's the whole point: you embody the pursuits that bring you to fruition and they become "distractions" from all the grim stuff.

Only, sure, as you get closer and closer to oblivion even the distractions can begin to disintegrate...becoming less and less effective. So, no doubt about it, if you are able to convince yourself that your path really is the one true path to moral commandments and immortality and salvation...?

Well, for one thing, you're no doubt considerably more comforted and consoled than "I" am here and now. Especially if you are particularly adept at convincing yourself further that all the other paths are occupied by,..fools?

And philosophers have confronted and had hugely insightful things to say about these problems for thousands of years.

Really? Okay, in regard to occupations that give us meaning and the fact of our inevitable death, how are there not as many "solutions" among philosophers [as with religionists and ideologues] as there are schools of philosophy?

Instead [as is often the case] we get but more general description intellectual contraptions like this one:

Critically engaging with the enduring wisdom of philosophy is a fantastic way to both inform ourselves about the problems inherent within the human condition, and also face up to those problems and calm our existential fears and anxieties.

Given your own philosophy of life, how do you yourself go about facing up to the problems "inherent in the human condition"? How do you yourself "calm your existential fears and anxieties"?

And in a way that is different from how I construe the role that dasein plays here.

[iambiguous]

Why Is Philosophy Important Today, and How Can It Improve Your Life?
From clarity to tolerance: here’s your quick guide to why philosophy is important today, as well as how it can improve your life.
By Jack Maden from Philosophy Break

By engaging with the ideas of great thinkers throughout history, we’re empowered to think for ourselves — be it on matters of meaning and existence, how to make a better world, or simply working out what’s worth pursuing in life.

On the other hand, this might explain why the exchanges we have here can become so convoluted. As individuals, we may live very, very different lives prompting us to believe very, very different things. For example, about that which constitutes good behavior and bad behavior. And then when we read the great thinkers [philosophical or otherwise] down throughout history we are necessarily encountering men and women who may well have lived lives considerably beyond our capacity to grasp [let alone live] as they did.

So, when we "think for ourselves" that will often involve the thinking of others around us...from the cradle to the grave.

And my point always revolves around making that crucial distinction between the objective reality we seem to share interacting in the either/or world, and then this part: "be it on matters of meaning and existence, how to make a better world, or simply working out what’s worth pursuing in life."

Have not the great thinkers themselves [philosophers or otherwise] been all up and down the moral and political spectrum? Some positing objective morality through one or another "transcending font" [God]?

For as Socrates, the famous ancient Greek martyr of philosophy, declared:

"The unexamined life is not worth living."

We'll need a context, of course. Something however a bit more realistic than Plato's cave.

Philosophical contemplation is the starting gun that jolts us out of going through life as if we’re only going through the motions, living only according to the expectations of others, or living by norms we’ve never really thought about, let alone endorsed.

Most of my life I have been fascinated by philosophy. At first because I too believed it was the discipline allowing mere mortals in a No God world to find the One True Path to enlightenment. If only on this side of the grave. Now, however, I've come to conclude that being fractured and fragmented is entirely reasonable when confronting actual conflicting goods in actual sets of circumstances.

As for the "expectations" and "norms" that drive the objectivists among us here?

Pick one:
1] my way or the highway
2] my way or else

[Alexis Jacobi]

Pick one:
1] my way or the highway
2] my way or else

Very well

[bahman]

The philosophers think that this or that is true. How about both?

[henry quirk]

Pick one:
1] my way or the highway
2] my way or else

There's a third option...

You go your way; I go mine.

[promethean75]

Absolutely shameless.