TRUMP AHEAD?

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seeds
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by seeds »

_______
"...You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious..."
— Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi - commenting on the denizens of...

... ̶M̶o̶s̶ ̶E̶i̶s̶l̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶p̶a̶c̶e̶p̶o̶r̶t̶ planet Trump (and especially PN forum).

Yeah, that's right, let's just embrace the inevitable and change our planet's name to one of the following...
  • 1. Trumpiter.
    2. Trumptune
    3. Trumpcury
    4. Trumpturn
    5. Trumpanus - (my pick)
    6. Or just plain old "Planet Trump."
    7. Suggestions?
Note: The best suggestion [must contain the name "Trump," or perhaps "Donald"] will win an official [1/16th scale] replica of Trump's golden thunder pot (toilet), along with an autographed Trump Bible - !!!plus!!! - your choice of any one of Trump's glorious trading cards...

Image

(P.S., later we can discuss renaming the solar system to the "Trump System," then the galaxy to the "Trumpy Way," then the universe to the "Trumpiverse," and so on.)
_______
seeds
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by seeds »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 7:07 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:49 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:32 pm
We are not at least insofar as you have made no statement about the injustice and destructiveness of this recent NY trial and what such law-fare portends.
If Trump is innocent of the charges he was convicted of, then yes, it should be brought to the Supreme Court for review and the Supreme Court ought to overturn the erroneous convictions.
You have missed the point.

First, the misdemeanor was artificially escalated to be not one but some dozens of felonies. That in itself reveals the intentions and game-plan of the prosecutor. Second, this right in an election cycle.

But the largest, the most important and consequential issue here is •election interference•.
Please tell me that you're trolling Gary for funzies.

Please reassure us that no one with your "seeming" level of intelligence, is dumb enough to actually believe what you wrote above.

(Continued in next post)
_______
seeds
Posts: 2880
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by seeds »

_______

(Continued from prior post)
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:55 pm When I look at the social justice movements of the 60s, civil rights, Vietnam protests, I see a much more real and urgent call for justice than I do watching the Trump affair. I'm just curious if AJ would have been a dissenter in the 1960s as well.
In one sense I agree. The cost of the Vietnam war was millions of lives lost and vast social, economic and ecological damage done. Not to speak of the relatively incomparable social and political damage to the US.

But none of this has bearing on the present use of law-fare with what certainly has all the appearance of a stark attempt to affect the outcome of this election.

The logic seems to be: it is a lesser evil to use such means in order to derail Trump’s possible, or likely, return to the presidency. In any case, I cannot discern another motive. It seems plain as day.
Perhaps the pursuit of actual "justice" is the motive?

Again, as mentioned in an alternate thread, you keep using your tiny mental "microscope" to focus-in on a mere one of the innumerable "cells" that make up the stinking and bloated body of Trump's moral (and actual law-breaking) crimes.

His seemingly limitless money supply has allowed him to surround himself with a cadre of unethical lawyers who somehow manage to jam-up the wheels of justice in such a way that allows him to avoid any accountability for his transgressions.

And the point is that even if these recent felony convictions aren't as serious as, say, his treasonous acts of stealing top secret documents and lying about having them to those who were seeking their return,...

(which, btw, it looks like the corrupt bimbo judge in Florida [Aileen Cannon] is going to let him get away with it)

...again, the point is that nailing his slippery rump on any charges whatsoever, is way overdue.

Besides, are you so stupid as not to realize that if he isn't thwarted in what you are calling "election interference" via "lawfare," that if he does return to power,...

...he is going to figure out a way to pardon himself of all the valid issues he's being indicted for, and the idiots of the GOP (and perhaps even the Supreme Court) are going to aid him in that insanity?

Are you really that much of an ignoramus, Alexis?

If so, then it's certainly not a very good form of advertising for your 10-week email course.
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Gary Childress
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Gary Childress »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:34 pm
Alexiev wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 7:38 pm It's still clear that Trump promoted sleazy and illegal shenanigans, for which he was properly found guilty.

That is simply opinion. I might agree, or I might not. But it has no bearing.
No bearing on what? His court case? A minority of Americans elected a President in 2016 (thanks to the Electoral College) who had been engaging in illegal activity before his election. Are we supposed to drop our heads and cry at the "injustice" now? That's insane. And I ought to know.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

seeds wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:48 pm If so, then it's certainly not a very good form of advertising for your 10-week email course.
NB: It had to happen I guess: I added another week! It is now The 11-Week Email Course and it is available for a measly $2,999.00
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:08 pm That's insane. And I ought to know.
A formidable argument!
Gary Childress
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Gary Childress »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:02 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:08 pm That's insane. And I ought to know.
A formidable argument!
Glad I could help!
Alexiev
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Alexiev »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:34 pm
Obviously, the New York case is relatively trivial, and Trump's sentence will probably not involve prison.

It is not at all trivial since it involves felony convictions.
It's still clear that Trump promoted sleazy and illegal shenanigans, for which he was properly found guilty.

That is simply opinion. I might agree, or I might not. But it has no bearing.
There's no evidence that the jury was politically motivated.
How could you know anything at all about this?
How could I not know? If there was evidence the jury was politically motivated, Republicans would be shouting it from the roof tops.

A jury found Trump guilty based on testimony with which they were more familiar than you or I. Of course juries sometimes convict the innocent. But, in general, they make fair decisions, and from what I've read, this decision seems fair.

"Relatively trivial" simply means less heinous than the other crimes of which Trump is accused.
Walker
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Walker »

Alexiev wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:48 pm How could I not know?
Everyone knows. It's not a matter of knowing. It's a matter of approval. Many approve. Chilling.

*

Here’s a tidy summary of details about the corruption of the spirit of the Law that is the political persecution of Trump, totalitarian style. This also keeps the effort/return ratio in balance. Not much effort to cut and paste what would take awhile to compose, all for the predictable returns.

*

Judge Merchan’s Jury Instructions Prove Trump’s Trial Is About Power, Not The Law
BY: JOHN DANIEL DAVIDSON
MAY 30, 2024
https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/30/ju ... t-the-law/

If you’ve been following former President Donald Trump’s hush-money trial in New York, you might have seen the shocking news that the judge in that trial, Juan Merchan, issued bizarre and plainly unconstitutional jury instructions on Wednesday, telling jurors they need not agree on what crime Trump allegedly committed to reach a unanimous guilty verdict.

You read that right. According to Judge Merchan, the jury could come back with a guilty verdict without agreeing on whether Trump committed election fraud, tax fraud, or falsification of business records. He essentially divided the jury into three groups of four, saying that if they’re split 4-4-4 on what crime Trump committed, he’d treat that as unanimous. To say this is unusual is of course a gross understatement. As Guy Benson noted on X, it amounts to a “choose your own adventure” jury instruction.

To make sense of these instructions, however, one must first understand the insane underlying theory of the case the prosecution has attempted to make, which is no easy task. It goes something like this. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg indicted Trump on 34 counts relating to allegations that Trump instructed his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, to pay “hush money” to pornographer Stormy Daniels to conceal an alleged past affair, and then falsified business records to label the payments as legal fees instead of campaign expenses.

Setting aside that it would have been a violation of federal campaign finance law to label such payments as campaign expenses, Trump’s alleged falsification of business records would only qualify as felonies if they were done in the service of some other crime that Trump intended to commit or conceal. What crime was that? The prosecutors have been vague on that point. No one can really say what crime, if any, the alleged falsification of business records was connected with.


Even now, after closing arguments, it’s not clear what underlying crime Trump was trying to conceal. During closing arguments earlier this week, Merchan allowed the prosecution to claim repeatedly that Trump committed federal campaign violations, which is not true. He then said the prosecution had referenced three possible crimes that could constitute the illegal means Trump used to influence the election: a federal election violation (which didn’t happen), a tax violation, and falsification of records. Jurors need not agree on which of these three occurred, said Merchan, but could also reach a unanimous verdict so long as the crime they all agree to was in furtherance of another crime.

But it gets worse. Merchan also barred Trump’s defense lawyers from explaining to the jury that no campaign finance violations had occurred and then allowed prosecutors (who gave their closing statement after the defense) to claim, falsely, that federal campaign finance violations had indeed occurred. The judge didn’t try to correct prosecutors or clarify any of this for jurors before sending them away to deliberate.

It’s pretty clear by now, if it wasn’t before, that this entire trial is a fishing expedition designed to convict Trump of something. Jonathan Turley called it a “manufactured criminal theory,” which it obviously is. Last April when the indictment was unsealed, my colleague Margot Cleveland wrote that Bragg had attempted to “bootstrap a federal election violation onto state law by claiming Trump falsified the business records to conceal campaign finance crimes,” and that the charges were “even more pathetic than anticipated.”

Now that the oral argument phase of the trial is over, the prosecution’s case hasn’t improved. In fact, it appears to be so weak that Merchan is discarding not just basic legal norms to get the jury to convict, but also basic reason. After all, how can a jury reach a unanimous verdict if they don’t even agree on what happened?

The only way to understand any of this is to realize that this isn’t about the law or seeing justice done for a crime. It’s about power. Denying Trump basic constitutional rights such as due process, as Merchan has done repeatedly in this case, is a way to demonstrate that Trump has no power compared to the New York Democrats who are trying to jail him before the November election. That was also the purpose of the unintentionally humorous press conference with actor Robert De Niro the Biden campaign held outside the courthouse this week.

These demonstrations of power aren’t meant merely to demoralize Trump and restrict his ability to campaign for president, they’re also meant to demoralize his millions of supporters all over the country. Trump voters are meant to understand that their man is going down and they would be smart to submit to those who actually have power: Democrats.

It’s also something more than that. It’s a threat. After all, if they can do this to Trump, just imagine what they can do to you.
Walker
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Walker »

Don't be surprised under the Brave New Spirit of Law that anyone who doesn't vote Democrat will have to pay a heavy tax under some pretext, continuing a trusty old tradition of the Barbary pirates.
Alexiev
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Alexiev »

Walker wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:16 am Don't be surprised under the Brave New Spirit of Law that anyone who doesn't vote Democrat will have to pay a heavy tax under some pretext, continuing a trusty old tradition of the Barbary pirates.
I stopped reading your post after I saw that it did not suggest the jury was politically motivated, so had nothing to do with my claim. Maybe I'll read it later.
Gary Childress
Posts: 11747
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: It's my fault

Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Gary Childress »

Walker wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:08 am
Alexiev wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:48 pm How could I not know?
Everyone knows. It's not a matter of knowing. It's a matter of approval. Many approve. Chilling.

*

Here’s a tidy summary of details about the corruption of the spirit of the Law that is the political persecution of Trump, totalitarian style. This also keeps the effort/return ratio in balance. Not much effort to cut and paste what would take awhile to compose, all for the predictable returns.

*

Judge Merchan’s Jury Instructions Prove Trump’s Trial Is About Power, Not The Law
BY: JOHN DANIEL DAVIDSON
MAY 30, 2024
https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/30/ju ... t-the-law/

If you’ve been following former President Donald Trump’s hush-money trial in New York, you might have seen the shocking news that the judge in that trial, Juan Merchan, issued bizarre and plainly unconstitutional jury instructions on Wednesday, telling jurors they need not agree on what crime Trump allegedly committed to reach a unanimous guilty verdict.

You read that right. According to Judge Merchan, the jury could come back with a guilty verdict without agreeing on whether Trump committed election fraud, tax fraud, or falsification of business records. He essentially divided the jury into three groups of four, saying that if they’re split 4-4-4 on what crime Trump committed, he’d treat that as unanimous. To say this is unusual is of course a gross understatement. As Guy Benson noted on X, it amounts to a “choose your own adventure” jury instruction.

To make sense of these instructions, however, one must first understand the insane underlying theory of the case the prosecution has attempted to make, which is no easy task. It goes something like this. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg indicted Trump on 34 counts relating to allegations that Trump instructed his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, to pay “hush money” to pornographer Stormy Daniels to conceal an alleged past affair, and then falsified business records to label the payments as legal fees instead of campaign expenses.

Setting aside that it would have been a violation of federal campaign finance law to label such payments as campaign expenses, Trump’s alleged falsification of business records would only qualify as felonies if they were done in the service of some other crime that Trump intended to commit or conceal. What crime was that? The prosecutors have been vague on that point. No one can really say what crime, if any, the alleged falsification of business records was connected with.


Even now, after closing arguments, it’s not clear what underlying crime Trump was trying to conceal. During closing arguments earlier this week, Merchan allowed the prosecution to claim repeatedly that Trump committed federal campaign violations, which is not true. He then said the prosecution had referenced three possible crimes that could constitute the illegal means Trump used to influence the election: a federal election violation (which didn’t happen), a tax violation, and falsification of records. Jurors need not agree on which of these three occurred, said Merchan, but could also reach a unanimous verdict so long as the crime they all agree to was in furtherance of another crime.

But it gets worse. Merchan also barred Trump’s defense lawyers from explaining to the jury that no campaign finance violations had occurred and then allowed prosecutors (who gave their closing statement after the defense) to claim, falsely, that federal campaign finance violations had indeed occurred. The judge didn’t try to correct prosecutors or clarify any of this for jurors before sending them away to deliberate.

It’s pretty clear by now, if it wasn’t before, that this entire trial is a fishing expedition designed to convict Trump of something. Jonathan Turley called it a “manufactured criminal theory,” which it obviously is. Last April when the indictment was unsealed, my colleague Margot Cleveland wrote that Bragg had attempted to “bootstrap a federal election violation onto state law by claiming Trump falsified the business records to conceal campaign finance crimes,” and that the charges were “even more pathetic than anticipated.”

Now that the oral argument phase of the trial is over, the prosecution’s case hasn’t improved. In fact, it appears to be so weak that Merchan is discarding not just basic legal norms to get the jury to convict, but also basic reason. After all, how can a jury reach a unanimous verdict if they don’t even agree on what happened?

The only way to understand any of this is to realize that this isn’t about the law or seeing justice done for a crime. It’s about power. Denying Trump basic constitutional rights such as due process, as Merchan has done repeatedly in this case, is a way to demonstrate that Trump has no power compared to the New York Democrats who are trying to jail him before the November election. That was also the purpose of the unintentionally humorous press conference with actor Robert De Niro the Biden campaign held outside the courthouse this week.

These demonstrations of power aren’t meant merely to demoralize Trump and restrict his ability to campaign for president, they’re also meant to demoralize his millions of supporters all over the country. Trump voters are meant to understand that their man is going down and they would be smart to submit to those who actually have power: Democrats.

It’s also something more than that. It’s a threat. After all, if they can do this to Trump, just imagine what they can do to you.
If all that's true and Trump's trial was grossly skewed and mishandled by NY's Justice system, then it needs to go to the Supreme Court and the case needs to be resolved once and for all using conventional, textbook judicial procedures. Otherwise, justice will not be served and the controversy is going to go on forever.
Age
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Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:32 am
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:08 am
Alexiev wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:48 pm How could I not know?
Everyone knows. It's not a matter of knowing. It's a matter of approval. Many approve. Chilling.

*

Here’s a tidy summary of details about the corruption of the spirit of the Law that is the political persecution of Trump, totalitarian style. This also keeps the effort/return ratio in balance. Not much effort to cut and paste what would take awhile to compose, all for the predictable returns.

*

Judge Merchan’s Jury Instructions Prove Trump’s Trial Is About Power, Not The Law
BY: JOHN DANIEL DAVIDSON
MAY 30, 2024
https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/30/ju ... t-the-law/

If you’ve been following former President Donald Trump’s hush-money trial in New York, you might have seen the shocking news that the judge in that trial, Juan Merchan, issued bizarre and plainly unconstitutional jury instructions on Wednesday, telling jurors they need not agree on what crime Trump allegedly committed to reach a unanimous guilty verdict.

You read that right. According to Judge Merchan, the jury could come back with a guilty verdict without agreeing on whether Trump committed election fraud, tax fraud, or falsification of business records. He essentially divided the jury into three groups of four, saying that if they’re split 4-4-4 on what crime Trump committed, he’d treat that as unanimous. To say this is unusual is of course a gross understatement. As Guy Benson noted on X, it amounts to a “choose your own adventure” jury instruction.

To make sense of these instructions, however, one must first understand the insane underlying theory of the case the prosecution has attempted to make, which is no easy task. It goes something like this. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg indicted Trump on 34 counts relating to allegations that Trump instructed his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, to pay “hush money” to pornographer Stormy Daniels to conceal an alleged past affair, and then falsified business records to label the payments as legal fees instead of campaign expenses.

Setting aside that it would have been a violation of federal campaign finance law to label such payments as campaign expenses, Trump’s alleged falsification of business records would only qualify as felonies if they were done in the service of some other crime that Trump intended to commit or conceal. What crime was that? The prosecutors have been vague on that point. No one can really say what crime, if any, the alleged falsification of business records was connected with.


Even now, after closing arguments, it’s not clear what underlying crime Trump was trying to conceal. During closing arguments earlier this week, Merchan allowed the prosecution to claim repeatedly that Trump committed federal campaign violations, which is not true. He then said the prosecution had referenced three possible crimes that could constitute the illegal means Trump used to influence the election: a federal election violation (which didn’t happen), a tax violation, and falsification of records. Jurors need not agree on which of these three occurred, said Merchan, but could also reach a unanimous verdict so long as the crime they all agree to was in furtherance of another crime.

But it gets worse. Merchan also barred Trump’s defense lawyers from explaining to the jury that no campaign finance violations had occurred and then allowed prosecutors (who gave their closing statement after the defense) to claim, falsely, that federal campaign finance violations had indeed occurred. The judge didn’t try to correct prosecutors or clarify any of this for jurors before sending them away to deliberate.

It’s pretty clear by now, if it wasn’t before, that this entire trial is a fishing expedition designed to convict Trump of something. Jonathan Turley called it a “manufactured criminal theory,” which it obviously is. Last April when the indictment was unsealed, my colleague Margot Cleveland wrote that Bragg had attempted to “bootstrap a federal election violation onto state law by claiming Trump falsified the business records to conceal campaign finance crimes,” and that the charges were “even more pathetic than anticipated.”

Now that the oral argument phase of the trial is over, the prosecution’s case hasn’t improved. In fact, it appears to be so weak that Merchan is discarding not just basic legal norms to get the jury to convict, but also basic reason. After all, how can a jury reach a unanimous verdict if they don’t even agree on what happened?

The only way to understand any of this is to realize that this isn’t about the law or seeing justice done for a crime. It’s about power. Denying Trump basic constitutional rights such as due process, as Merchan has done repeatedly in this case, is a way to demonstrate that Trump has no power compared to the New York Democrats who are trying to jail him before the November election. That was also the purpose of the unintentionally humorous press conference with actor Robert De Niro the Biden campaign held outside the courthouse this week.

These demonstrations of power aren’t meant merely to demoralize Trump and restrict his ability to campaign for president, they’re also meant to demoralize his millions of supporters all over the country. Trump voters are meant to understand that their man is going down and they would be smart to submit to those who actually have power: Democrats.

It’s also something more than that. It’s a threat. After all, if they can do this to Trump, just imagine what they can do to you.
If all that's true and Trump's trial was grossly skewed and mishandled by NY's Justice system, then it needs to go to the Supreme Court and the case needs to be resolved once and for all using conventional, textbook judicial procedures. Otherwise, justice will not be served and the controversy is going to go on forever.
But, if "donald trump" does not get what it wants through the supreme court, then "donald trump" will then just say something like, 'See, the whole judicial system is grossly skewed'.

Which may trigger more people to vote for "Donald trump", which, in turn, will then give "donald trump" more 'permission', or more 'justification', to change 'the system' to be far more favourable to "donal trump" and to the "trump" family. you know like how the "kim" family was able to rise to have so much control and so much power over a whole nation, and its peoples.

Then, once "donald trump" is getting what it wants, everytime it wants something, then, and only then, will "donald trump" tell you people that 'justice is being served'.

And, quite remarkably, there will be some of you who will also believe 'this' to be true.
Walker
Posts: 16383
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Walker »

Alexiev wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:02 am
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:16 am Don't be surprised under the Brave New Spirit of Law that anyone who doesn't vote Democrat will have to pay a heavy tax under some pretext, continuing a trusty old tradition of the Barbary pirates.
I stopped reading your post after I saw that it did not suggest the jury was politically motivated, so had nothing to do with my claim. Maybe I'll read it later.
I'd say the jury was motivated by personal survival.
Walker
Posts: 16383
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: TRUMP AHEAD?

Post by Walker »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:32 am
If all that's true and Trump's trial was grossly skewed and mishandled by NY's Justice system, then it needs to go to the Supreme Court and the case needs to be resolved once and for all using conventional, textbook judicial procedures. Otherwise, justice will not be served and the controversy is going to go on forever.
We’ll see. When The Party can destroy a political candidate who is also an ex-president by corrupting the due process of Law, which they are doing to Trump, then Supreme means small potatoes.

SCOTUS justices are human, they live in neighborhoods, the personal welfare of their families is undoubtedly a consideration in The Brave New World where the illegal intimidation of justices and their families at their homes is allowed by the Democrat Party.

The cause and effect of the Trump Treatment has been made clear. Defying The Party in order to do what’s right comes at a great personal cost. Not many if any other than Trump could withstand the assault.
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