How wokeness is torpedoing the solidarity with Ukraine

[Walker]

The Ukraine War is a horrible war. It's also an arranged war. The American government announced it intended to have Ukraine apply to enter NATO, which it soon did, knowing full well that this would provoke Putin into action. They said they knew that at least a dozen years before they did it; and ten years ago, Nigel Farage warned the EU outright, that they simply had to stop poking Putin in Ukraine.

They did it anyway.

The American government has also been clear that they want this war to continue until "regime change." This will not happen. So they're talking about a perpetual overseas war, that is guaranteed to end in failure, as well. Ukrainians will continue to be immolated. Ukraine will be lost to Russia. But the rich will get much richer as a result. The taxes from ordinary Americans will fill their pockets.

Why did they start it? Because war is their tax-grab money laundry. They want it producing for them, set on "high," for as long as they can make it go. And they don't care about Ukraine. If they did, they would be suing for terms, at the very least. But better, they never would have provoked the war.

"Solidarity with Ukraine," is a phrase that in their mouths means, "Pay to keep the war going." To be in genine solidarity with Ukraine, one should be looking at stopping the war, and NATO should not be interfering in volitile countries on Russia's border.

You should give your firstborn or at least some of your organs to Putin, it's always important to placate the Russians.

Ridiculous. One does not placate dictators. But then, one also doesn't push them into a war, or corner them by declaring that you're aiming to kill them if they lose. So there are a lot of things one does not do...and yet, some of them have been done.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ ... ar-Weapons

At the time of Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine held the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, including an estimated 1,900 strategic warheads, 176 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), and 44 strategic bombers. By 1996, Ukraine had returned all of its nuclear warheads to Russia in exchange for economic aid and security assurances, and in December 1994, Ukraine became a non-nuclear weapon state-party to the 1968 nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT). The last strategic nuclear delivery vehicle in Ukraine was eliminated in 2001 under the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START). It took years of political maneuvering and diplomatic work, starting with the Lisbon Protocol in 1992, to remove the weapons and nuclear infrastructure from Ukraine.

Comment: With nukes, Ukraine would certainly have been a strong NATO member. Without nukes, it was ripe for invasion from the Motherland by an ambitious tyrant (Putin).

The nuke deal was pretty good for Russia.

[Immanuel Can]

Again: no one wanted war with Russia.

That's good news. They'll be ending it today, then.

[Atla]

Again: no one wanted war with Russia.

That's good news. They'll be ending it today, then.

Sure, once you lead by example and give Putin your firstborn or at least some of your organs, the Ukrainians will know what to do too.

[Immanuel Can]

Again: no one wanted war with Russia.

That's good news. They'll be ending it today, then.

Sure, once you lead by example and give Putin your firstborn or at least some of your organs, the Ukrainians will know what to do too.

See, this is precisely the problem. As the above, nobody in the Biden admin apparently has any idea how to negotiate a peace. They think they have to push this war to "regime change," which means that lots more Ukrainians, Russians and potentially Americans end up dead. And they can't even think about how to get started with a diplomatic solution: they don't even have an alternate first proposal in play.

So there's too possibilities: either they're just that dumb, or they're just that keen to keep the war going. Either way, what's needed is a "regime change," alright...but in America, as well as in Russia. At the very least, they need a non-senile president, some non-venial representatives, and a few good diplomats. Apparently, there's none of the above there right now. If there were, there'd at least be peace talks...if the war would even have started in the first place, but for this regime.

It's the Ukrainians this intransigence is killing. It's not my child or me. But that doesn't make it less evil.

[Atla]

That's good news. They'll be ending it today, then.

Sure, once you lead by example and give Putin your firstborn or at least some of your organs, the Ukrainians will know what to do too.

See, this is precisely the problem. As the above, nobody in the Biden admin apparently has any idea how to negotiate a peace. They think they have to push this war to "regime change," which means that lots more Ukrainians, Russians and potentially Americans end up dead. And they can't even think about how to get started with a diplomatic solution: they don't even have an alternate first proposal in play.

So there's too possibilities: either they're just that dumb, or they're just that keen to keep the war going. Either way, what's needed is a "regime change," alright...but in America, as well as in Russia. At the very least, they need a non-senile president, some non-venial representatives, and a few good diplomats. Apparently, there's none of the above there right now. If there were, there'd at least be peace talks...if the war would even have started in the first place, but for this regime.

It's the Ukrainians this intransigence is killing. It's not my child or me. But that doesn't make it less evil.

More Russian propaganda. Putin's revisionist plans have fuck all to do with who is currently the US president.

[Immanuel Can]

Sure, once you lead by example and give Putin your firstborn or at least some of your organs, the Ukrainians will know what to do too.

See, this is precisely the problem. As the above, nobody in the Biden admin apparently has any idea how to negotiate a peace. They think they have to push this war to "regime change," which means that lots more Ukrainians, Russians and potentially Americans end up dead. And they can't even think about how to get started with a diplomatic solution: they don't even have an alternate first proposal in play.

So there's too possibilities: either they're just that dumb, or they're just that keen to keep the war going. Either way, what's needed is a "regime change," alright...but in America, as well as in Russia. At the very least, they need a non-senile president, some non-venial representatives, and a few good diplomats. Apparently, there's none of the above there right now. If there were, there'd at least be peace talks...if the war would even have started in the first place, but for this regime.

It's the Ukrainians this intransigence is killing. It's not my child or me. But that doesn't make it less evil.

More Russian propaganda. Putin's revisionist plans have fuck all to do with who is currently the US president.

That's not what the Dems were saying...until they were caught blatantly lying about that, of course. Of course, they knew what their own motives were, so truth wasn't required, apparently.

But there are also Repubs who don't want the war to end. Any politician who still supports it can enjoy the gravy train flowing from the military-industrial complex. They're happy to reward anybody who will vote "the right way."

But where are the diplomats? Where are the proposals for settlement or peace? Who thinks Putin will just roll over and lose? The absence of any plan to save Ukraine is eloquent testimony to what's really going on.

And you're supporting it. And if so, you're clearly no friend of Ukrainians.

[Atla]

See, this is precisely the problem. As the above, nobody in the Biden admin apparently has any idea how to negotiate a peace. They think they have to push this war to "regime change," which means that lots more Ukrainians, Russians and potentially Americans end up dead. And they can't even think about how to get started with a diplomatic solution: they don't even have an alternate first proposal in play.

So there's too possibilities: either they're just that dumb, or they're just that keen to keep the war going. Either way, what's needed is a "regime change," alright...but in America, as well as in Russia. At the very least, they need a non-senile president, some non-venial representatives, and a few good diplomats. Apparently, there's none of the above there right now. If there were, there'd at least be peace talks...if the war would even have started in the first place, but for this regime.

It's the Ukrainians this intransigence is killing. It's not my child or me. But that doesn't make it less evil.

More Russian propaganda. Putin's revisionist plans have fuck all to do with who is currently the US president.

That's not what the Dems were saying...until they were caught blatantly lying about that, of course. Of course, they knew what their own motives were, so truth wasn't required, apparently.

But there are also Repubs who don't want the war to end. Any politician who still supports it can enjoy the gravy train flowing from the military-industrial complex. They're happy to reward anybody who will vote "the right way."

But where are the diplomats? Where are the proposals for settlement or peace? Who thinks Putin will just roll over and lose? The absence of any plan to save Ukraine is eloquent testimony to what's really going on.

And you're supporting it. And if so, you're clearly no friend of Ukrainians.

Explain friend of Ukrainians, why should Ukraine give up the part of the country that was occupied by Russia?

[Immanuel Can]

More Russian propaganda. Putin's revisionist plans have fuck all to do with who is currently the US president.

That's not what the Dems were saying...until they were caught blatantly lying about that, of course. Of course, they knew what their own motives were, so truth wasn't required, apparently.

But there are also Repubs who don't want the war to end. Any politician who still supports it can enjoy the gravy train flowing from the military-industrial complex. They're happy to reward anybody who will vote "the right way."

But where are the diplomats? Where are the proposals for settlement or peace? Who thinks Putin will just roll over and lose? The absence of any plan to save Ukraine is eloquent testimony to what's really going on.

And you're supporting it. And if so, you're clearly no friend of Ukrainians.

Explain friend of Ukrainians, why should Ukraine give up the part of the country that was occupied by Russia?

A friend of Ukrainians would want an immediate end to the war, and the restoration of traditional Ukrainian territory. A true friend of Ukraine would already have peace talks ongoing, and a plan for less-that-total-annihilation of their opponent. A true friend of Ukraine would not be supporting either of the sides that have created and are now sustaining this useless war on Russia's border.

So let's at least open peace talks. And maybe let's start with a basic proposal. Let's say Russia returns to its old borders, and Ukraine agrees not to join NATO. That's a painless first-proposal. It gives each side what they CLAIM they want, and each side can claim to have gained something. Russia prevented the threat of NATO, and America can boast it "saved Ukraine." They can sell that story to their supporters.

Then we'll see if that's what they really want.

But I think you know it's not. For it's clear that anybody who announces from day 1 that they're aiming at "regime change," and has no diplomats or peace talks, is not aiming at peace of any kind. They're aiming at the longest war they can possibly create. They couldn't possibly choose a route more guaranteed to produce it.

[Atla]

That's not what the Dems were saying...until they were caught blatantly lying about that, of course. Of course, they knew what their own motives were, so truth wasn't required, apparently.

But there are also Repubs who don't want the war to end. Any politician who still supports it can enjoy the gravy train flowing from the military-industrial complex. They're happy to reward anybody who will vote "the right way."

But where are the diplomats? Where are the proposals for settlement or peace? Who thinks Putin will just roll over and lose? The absence of any plan to save Ukraine is eloquent testimony to what's really going on.

And you're supporting it. And if so, you're clearly no friend of Ukrainians.

Explain friend of Ukrainians, why should Ukraine give up the part of the country that was occupied by Russia?

A friend of Ukrainians would want an immediate end to the war, and the restoration of traditional Ukrainian territory. A true friend of Ukraine would already have peace talks ongoing, and a plan for less-that-total-annihilation of their opponent. A true friend of Ukraine would not be supporting either of the sides that have created and are now sustaining this useless war on Russia's border.

So let's at least open peace talks. And maybe let's start with a basic proposal. Let's say Russia returns to its old borders, and Ukraine agrees not to join NATO. That's a painless first-proposal. It gives each side what they CLAIM they want, and each side can claim to have gained something. Russia prevented the threat of NATO, and America can boast it "saved Ukraine." They can sell that story to their supporters.

Then we'll see if that's what they really want.

But I think you know it's not. For it's clear that anybody who announces from day 1 that they're aiming at "regime change," and has no diplomats or peace talks, is not aiming at peace of any kind. They're aiming at the longest war they can possibly create. They couldn't possibly choose a route more guaranteed to produce it.

And what does this have to do with the real world? Russia doesn't want to return to its old borders.

[Immanuel Can]

Explain friend of Ukrainians, why should Ukraine give up the part of the country that was occupied by Russia?

A friend of Ukrainians would want an immediate end to the war, and the restoration of traditional Ukrainian territory. A true friend of Ukraine would already have peace talks ongoing, and a plan for less-that-total-annihilation of their opponent. A true friend of Ukraine would not be supporting either of the sides that have created and are now sustaining this useless war on Russia's border.

So let's at least open peace talks. And maybe let's start with a basic proposal. Let's say Russia returns to its old borders, and Ukraine agrees not to join NATO. That's a painless first-proposal. It gives each side what they CLAIM they want, and each side can claim to have gained something. Russia prevented the threat of NATO, and America can boast it "saved Ukraine." They can sell that story to their supporters.

Then we'll see if that's what they really want.

But I think you know it's not. For it's clear that anybody who announces from day 1 that they're aiming at "regime change," and has no diplomats or peace talks, is not aiming at peace of any kind. They're aiming at the longest war they can possibly create. They couldn't possibly choose a route more guaranteed to produce it.

And what does this have to do with the real world? Russia doesn't want to return to its old borders.

Read carefully. How they react shows what BOTH SIDES actually want. Your assumption is that Putin won't take a nice, modest "win." Maybe that's right, and maybe because he feels he's winning and wants more. Or maybe you're wrong. Maybe he'd be happy to get out of a jam...particularly if it allows him to keep his "regime." Either way, if you don't make a first proposal, you'll never know.

A "first proposal" implies there will be a "second proposal,"and maybe a "third proposal," and maybe a "tenth proposal." But diplomatic proposals are the only way a war gets settled, short of somebody going extinct. But the Dems won't even make a single first offer, which shows for sure that they don't want peace. They're enjoying their war too much. So far, it hasn't cost them a single American life, and the moolah is just rolling in. Why would they stop it now? All it's costing them is dead Ukrainians and Russians.

[Atla]

A friend of Ukrainians would want an immediate end to the war, and the restoration of traditional Ukrainian territory. A true friend of Ukraine would already have peace talks ongoing, and a plan for less-that-total-annihilation of their opponent. A true friend of Ukraine would not be supporting either of the sides that have created and are now sustaining this useless war on Russia's border.

So let's at least open peace talks. And maybe let's start with a basic proposal. Let's say Russia returns to its old borders, and Ukraine agrees not to join NATO. That's a painless first-proposal. It gives each side what they CLAIM they want, and each side can claim to have gained something. Russia prevented the threat of NATO, and America can boast it "saved Ukraine." They can sell that story to their supporters.

Then we'll see if that's what they really want.

But I think you know it's not. For it's clear that anybody who announces from day 1 that they're aiming at "regime change," and has no diplomats or peace talks, is not aiming at peace of any kind. They're aiming at the longest war they can possibly create. They couldn't possibly choose a route more guaranteed to produce it.

And what does this have to do with the real world? Russia doesn't want to return to its old borders.

Read carefully. How they react shows what BOTH SIDES actually want. Your assumption is that Putin won't take a nice, modest "win." Maybe that's right, and maybe because he feels he's winning and wants more. Or maybe you're wrong. Maybe he'd be happy to get out of a jam...particularly if it allows him to keep his "regime." Either way, if you don't make a first proposal, you'll never know.

A "first proposal" implies there will be a "second proposal,"and maybe a "third proposal," and maybe a "tenth proposal." But diplomatic proposals are the only way a war gets settled, short of somebody going extinct. But the Dems won't even make a single first offer, which shows for sure that they don't want peace. They're enjoying their war too much. So far, it hasn't cost them a single American life, and the moolah is just rolling in. Why would they stop it now? All it's costing them is dead Ukrainians and Russians.

Right, so you just like to hear yourself talk after being brainwashed by Russian propaganda, and bring in your retarded religious animosity towards the "democrats".

Well FYI, no, Russians don't want to return to their old borders, that's the main reality of the conflict. Russia is somewhat open to peace talks yes, with the current borders.

[Immanuel Can]

And what does this have to do with the real world? Russia doesn't want to return to its old borders.

Read carefully. How they react shows what BOTH SIDES actually want. Your assumption is that Putin won't take a nice, modest "win." Maybe that's right, and maybe because he feels he's winning and wants more. Or maybe you're wrong. Maybe he'd be happy to get out of a jam...particularly if it allows him to keep his "regime." Either way, if you don't make a first proposal, you'll never know.

A "first proposal" implies there will be a "second proposal,"and maybe a "third proposal," and maybe a "tenth proposal." But diplomatic proposals are the only way a war gets settled, short of somebody going extinct. But the Dems won't even make a single first offer, which shows for sure that they don't want peace. They're enjoying their war too much. So far, it hasn't cost them a single American life, and the moolah is just rolling in. Why would they stop it now? All it's costing them is dead Ukrainians and Russians.

Right, so you just like to hear yourself talk after being brainwashed by Russian propaganda, and bring in your retarded religious animosity towards the "democrats".

You're being very silly. The Dems are in charge. It's all on them, really. The Repubs can't launch any peace missions. And I have no idea what "religion" has to do with this at all; maybe you'll explain...(I won't hold my breath. )

Russians don't want to return to their old borders,

And you know this...how? Have you talked to any? Do you have a peace mission reaching out to Putin?

Russia is somewhat open to peace talks yes, with the current borders.

And again...you know this...how?

[Atla]

Read carefully. How they react shows what BOTH SIDES actually want. Your assumption is that Putin won't take a nice, modest "win." Maybe that's right, and maybe because he feels he's winning and wants more. Or maybe you're wrong. Maybe he'd be happy to get out of a jam...particularly if it allows him to keep his "regime." Either way, if you don't make a first proposal, you'll never know.

A "first proposal" implies there will be a "second proposal,"and maybe a "third proposal," and maybe a "tenth proposal." But diplomatic proposals are the only way a war gets settled, short of somebody going extinct. But the Dems won't even make a single first offer, which shows for sure that they don't want peace. They're enjoying their war too much. So far, it hasn't cost them a single American life, and the moolah is just rolling in. Why would they stop it now? All it's costing them is dead Ukrainians and Russians.

Right, so you just like to hear yourself talk after being brainwashed by Russian propaganda, and bring in your retarded religious animosity towards the "democrats".

You're being very silly. The Dems are in charge. It's all on them, really. The Repubs can't launch any peace missions. And I have no idea what "religion" has to do with this at all; maybe you'll explain...(I won't hold my breath. )

Russians don't want to return to their old borders,

And you know this...how? Have you talked to any? Do you have a peace mission reaching out to Putin?

Russia is somewhat open to peace talks yes, with the current borders.

And again...you know this...how?

Everything is related to religion in your case, for example aligning with Republicans and opposing Democrats.

What do you mean how I know this? By following the conflict. Last time was a few days ago when Russia suggested that it'd be interested in a ceasefire along the current borders.

After more than two years, if Putin were interested in returning to their old borders in exchange for no Ukraine NATO membership, he would have made that known by now.

[Immanuel Can]

Everything is related to religion in your case,

Not in this case. If you think Dem and Repub are "religions," you need your head read. And just to really disappoint you, I don't live in your country, have never been either a Dem or a Repub, and won't be voting for either. So you're just about as wildly wrong as a person can be.

But here's the obvious fact: the Dems are presently in charge of the war, the war they started, and have control over any peace process. Those venial reps among the Repubs might possibly be as bad; but at present, they have no power over that. It's up to the "commander in chief," who is too busy being incontinent and senile, and is clearly now operated with strings from behind the scenes.

Last time was a few days ago when Russia suggested that it'd be interested in a ceasefire along the current borders.

Then it's time for Biden to make a counter-proposal. Now, where are those peace talks going to be happening...?

Don't hold your breath. There are too many American politicians, on both sides of the house, that want this war to go on.

[Atla]

Not in this case. If you think Dem and Repub are "religions," you need your head read. And just to really disappoint you, I don't live in your country, have never been either a Dem or a Repub, and won't be voting for either. So you're just about as wildly wrong as a person can be.

But here's the obvious fact: the Dems are presently in charge of the war, the war they started, and have control over any peace process. Those venial reps among the Repubs might possibly be as bad; but at present, they have no power over that. It's up to the "commander in chief," who is too busy being incontinent and senile, and is clearly now operated with strings from behind the scenes.

Yes, in this case too. As for being wildly wrong, I didn't say that political parties are religions, nor that I live in the US.

So the Dems started the war, thank you for the "obvious fact". You're really losing it..

Then it's time for Biden to make a counter-proposal. Now, where are those peace talks going to be happening...?

Don't hold your breath. There are too many American politicians, on both sides of the house, that want this war to go on.

Yes of course there are many American politicians who want Russia to bleed out in this war, and/or profit from the weapons shipments. Although I think at this point this war may cost more to the US than it would like.

But overall you're just bullshitting because you can't handle the fact that this is primarily Putin's war, and he wants to annex a part of Ukraine, period.