WOKE and proud of it....

[Peter Kropotkin]

...of everything but grammar, history, and oneself. On those topics, it means "totally asleep."

K: show us, give us arguments that prove your point.....

Wokies don't know grammar. If they did, they wouldn't call themselves "woke." Wokies don't know history. If they did, they'd never support Marxism...unless they were homicidal maniacs. Wokies don't know themselves. They think they are virtuous, insightful, advocates for justice. They are the playthings of ideologues and authoritarians.

They aren't "awake" to any of these things that describe their real situation.

K: So, I asked specific arguments proving your point, and you gave us nothing but
more, typical ''ad hominem'' arguments...

so, please feel free to make your argument... without ''ad hominem''
arguments... the fact is I have expressly denounced Marxism...
as do most people on the left... so, you are left with, what argument
exactly? where is your proof for your accusations?

Kropotkin

[Immanuel Can]

K: show us, give us arguments that prove your point.....

Wokies don't know grammar. If they did, they wouldn't call themselves "woke." Wokies don't know history. If they did, they'd never support Marxism...unless they were homicidal maniacs. Wokies don't know themselves. They think they are virtuous, insightful, advocates for justice. They are the playthings of ideologues and authoritarians.

They aren't "awake" to any of these things that describe their real situation.

K: So, I asked specific arguments proving your point, and you gave us nothing but
more, typical ''ad hominem'' arguments...

It was you who made the human connection...you claimed that Wokies' critics didn't know what they were talking about. I just pointed out that it was far more true of the Wokies than of their critics. (In fact, the very term "Woke" implies "I'm awake, and you all are asleep," which is a gratuitous, unproved, ad hominem insult in itself...so how do you now get to complain? )

The fact is that there are three levels of critics: those who don't know anything about Wokism or Marx, but feel visceral discomfort with the attitudes and actions of Woke persons. This is a very large group.

Then there are the semi-informed, who know enough to make the Woke-Marx link, maybe, but not enough to have details.

Then there are the rest of us.

The same is true of Wokies. Most of the first level is composed of those "useful idiot" types who have no idea what they're really following. Most are hangers on, who think Wokism will mean free stuff. Their ideas are rudimentary, selfish and stupid.

Then there are the semi-informed: those with a page or two of Marx, maybe, and a bunch of newer idiots like Kendi or Di Angelo, but not much more. They have enough knowledge to think they're smart, but they're not much brighter than the masses they think they mobilize. They think they are leaders, activists; but they are pawns, too, and don't know the depth or the history of the ideology they worship.

Then there are the malevolent, demonic ideologues who run the show; real Marxists and opportunists, who see popular Socialism as either a way of finally realizing Marxist dreams, or the most expedient method of depriving the population of their property, their civil rights and autonomy, and only use Marxism to get there.

I have expressly denounced Marxism...

Is that because you're ignorant of your own roots, or are you lying? With Wokies, either would be quite routine.

[Harbal]

... the fact is that we on the left
don't think in terms of Marxism...

That's because you're a perfect example of Lenin's term, "useful idiots."

Do you have any evidence to support your accusation of usefulness?

[Peter Kropotkin]

let us simplify this, you keep trying to connect being ''WOKE''
with Marxism.... so, once again, make that connection.....
I am not a Marxist... and yes, at least I can tell the difference
which you clearly can't, between Marxism and being ''WOKE"....

Being ''WOKE" has nothing to do with Marxism....
so, make the connection if you can....

Kropotkin

[Immanuel Can]

That's because you're a perfect example of Lenin's term, "useful idiots."

Do you have any evidence to support your accusation of usefulness?

The quote boxes above are in the wrong order. I've taken the liberty of straightening them out, to reflect what it seems you intended.

And Point taken.

Of course, it means "useful" to Lenin and his agenda, not generically "useful."

The idiots parading around college campuses right now, who couldn't find Gaza on a map, don't know what "sea" and "river" are involved, and haven't a clue about the cause for which they're upsetting universities are no doubt "useful" to the genocidal Hamas organization in some propagandistic way, but not to anybody else, for sure.

[Immanuel Can]

...you keep trying to connect being ''WOKE''
with Marxism....

I don't have to "try." It IS. That's what it really is. So I'm guessing you're category 2, in this business?

Just go and read Race Marxism. That'll finish your nonsense about Woke being unassociated with Marxism, for sure.

[Peter Kropotkin]

That's because you're a perfect example of Lenin's term, "useful idiots."

Do you have any evidence to support your accusation of usefulness?

The quote boxes above are in the wrong order. I've taken the liberty of straightening them out, to reflect what it seems you intended.

And Point taken.

Of course, it means "useful" to Lenin and his agenda, not generically "useful."

K: you are aware that Lenin has been dead for over 100 years now, right?
right? and the Soviet Union fell over 30 years ago, right?
you are aware of this? Because you don't seem to up to date in your
analysis of history.....

Kropotkin

[Immanuel Can]

K: you are aware that Lenin has been dead for over 100 years now, right?

His body is dead, and stuffed, and propped up in Red Square. His rubbish ideas are very much alive. And lately, they're alive in 'Woke.'

[Immanuel Can]

By the way, this is by far the best ten-minute speech on Wokism that you will ever find. It just rocks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo

[Peter Kropotkin]

Peter Kropotkin:
K: you are aware that Lenin has been dead for over 100 years now, right?

IC: His body is dead, and stuffed, and propped up in Red Square. His rubbish ideas are very much alive. And lately, they're alive in 'Woke.'

K: ummm, so the ''WOKE'' discuss property rights, as Lenin did or they
discuss the ''Emancipation of the workers''... or the ''WOKE" discuss the
difference between the Menshevism and Bolshevism, or the question
of the proletarian vs the bourgeoisie, as Lenin did?
Ummmm, I must have missed that minute....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

By the way, this is by far the best ten-minute speech on Wokism that you will ever find. It just rocks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo

K: There is a specific reason why I avoid Youtube or anything like it,
I am deaf.... it is far easier for me to read something than to hear it....
I don't do telephones or conversations or talk to more than one person,
I can't....

Kropotkin

[Immanuel Can]

By the way, this is by far the best ten-minute speech on Wokism that you will ever find. It just rocks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo

K: There is a specific reason why I avoid Youtube or anything like it,
I am deaf.... it is far easier for me to read something than to hear it....

Put on the subtitles. Or else buy yourself a copy of Race Marxism, and read that. Either will do.

[Immanuel Can]

K: ummm, so the ''WOKE'' discuss property rights, as Lenin did or they
discuss the ''Emancipation of the workers''... or the ''WOKE" discuss the
difference between the Menshevism and Bolshevism, or the question
of the proletarian vs the bourgeoisie, as Lenin did?
Ummmm, I must have missed that minute....

Boy, do you ever need to hear Lindsay's speech to the EU. It would fix that mistake for you very quickly.

"Cultural" Marxism is a variation of Marxism. You're now speaking of "Classical" or "Economic" Marxism. The main difference is what they identify as the basis of grievance; after that, though, they have the same songbook: oppression, revolution, progress, History, envy, violence, repression, collectivism, big government...all the same 'furniture,' just put into a new 'house.'

[Will Bouwman]

."Cultural" Marxism is a variation of Marxism. You're now speaking of "Classical" or "Economic" Marxism.

Not according to the ever reliable Wikipedia:
"Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for modern progressive movements, identity politics, and political correctness.

[phyllo]

This is more interesting than the wikipedia article. I will just quote the end of the piece.

Cultural Marxism Is Real

Much of the outcry about cultural Marxism is outrageous, uninformed, and conspiratorial. Some of it simplifies, ignores, or downplays the fissures and tensions among leftist groups and ideas. Cultural Marxism cannot be reduced, for instance, to “political correctness” or “identity politics.” (I recommend Andrew Lynn’s short piece “Cultural Marxism” in the Fall 2018 issue of The Hedgehog Review for a concise critique of sloppy and paranoid treatments of cultural Marxism.)

Nevertheless, Marxism pervades Theory, despite the competition among the several ideas under that broad label. Sometimes this Marxism is self-evident; at other times, it’s residual and implied. At any rate, it has attained a distinct but evolving character as literary scholars have reworked classical Marxism to account for the relation of literature and culture to class, power, and discourse.

Feminism, gender studies, critical race theory, post-colonialism, disability studies—these and other disciplines routinely get pulled through one or more of the theoretical paradigms I’ve outlined. The fact that they’re guided by Marxism or adopt Marxist terms and concepts, however, does not make them off-limits or unworthy of attention.

Which brings me to a warning: Condemning these ideas as forbidden, as dangers that corrupt young minds, might have unintended consequences. Marxist spinoffs must be studied to be comprehensively understood. Don’t remove them from the curriculum: contextualize them, challenge them, and question them. Don’t reify their power by ignoring or neglecting them.

Popular iterations of cultural Marxism reveal themselves in the casual use of terms like “privilege,” “alienation,” “commodification,” “fetishism,” “materialism,” “hegemony,” or “superstructure.” As Zubatov wrote for Tablet, “It is a short step from Gramsci’s ‘hegemony’ to the now-ubiquitous toxic memes of ‘patriarchy,’ ‘heteronormativity,’ ‘white supremacy,’ ‘white privilege,’ ‘white fragility,’ ‘and whiteness.’” He adds, “It is a short step from the Marxist and cultural Marxist premise that ideas are, at their core, expressions of power to rampant, divisive identity politics and the routine judging of people and their cultural contributions based on their race, gender, sexuality and religion.”

My brief summary is merely the simplified, approximate version of a much larger and more complex story, but it orients curious readers who wish to learn more about cultural Marxism in literary studies. Today, English departments suffer from the lack of a clearly defined mission, purpose, and identity. Having lost rigor in favor of leftist politics as their chief end of study, English departments at many universities are jeopardized by the renewed emphasis on practical skills and jobs training. Just as English departments replaced religion and classics departments as the principal places to study culture, so too could future departments or schools replace English departments.

And those places may not tolerate political agitations posturing as pedagogical technique.

The point, however, is that cultural Marxism exists. It has a history, followers, adherents, and left a perceptible mark on academic subjects and lines of inquiry. Moyn may wish it out of existence, or dismiss it as a bogeyman, but it is real. We must know its effects on society, and in what forms it materializes in our culture. Moyn’s intemperate polemic demonstrates, in fact, the urgency and importance of examining cultural Marxism, rather than closing our eyes to its meaning, properties, and significance.

https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2019/01 ... m-is-real/

The article in 'The Hedgehog Review':
https://hedgehogreview.com/issues/the-e ... al-marxism