Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

[Alexis Jacobi]

I'm not really sure what you’re hoping to do in the thread.

Why must it be predetermined?

[Harbal]

..and therein lies the catch 22 of it. U want the proof without what was asked of you, some faith.

I don't actually want anything; it's the person who is asking me to believe something completely implausible that wants something. It's not my job to do anything, it's theirs.

What is implausible?

How does a bunch of atoms when arranged in a certain way permit the unique sensation within the entire universe for you to feel me when I punch you in the bollocks?

How do mere atoms arranged in a certain way manage such a sensation as sight sound pain etc..

PS. It's only plausible because you have experienced it. ipso facto - God forming water to wine is not implausible.

During the course of my lifetime I have formed a sense of what sort of things do happen, and what sort of things don't happen.

[Harbal]

I'm not really sure what you’re hoping to do in the thread.

Why must it be predetermined?

I think what you've ended up with was pretty much predetermined. Whatever you are involved in always seems to end up the same.

[attofishpi]

I don't actually want anything; it's the person who is asking me to believe something completely implausible that wants something. It's not my job to do anything, it's theirs.

What is implausible?

How does a bunch of atoms when arranged in a certain way permit the unique sensation within the entire universe for you to feel me when I punch you in the bollocks?

How do mere atoms arranged in a certain way manage such a sensation as sight sound pain etc..

PS. It's only plausible because you have experienced it. ipso facto - God forming water to wine is not implausible.

During the course of my lifetime I have formed a sense of what sort of things do happen, and what sort of things don't happen.

That's not enough to discount something to be completely implausible - only a physicist that comprehends everything about the nature of reality could conclude such a matter. (they don't exist)

[Alexis Jacobi]

During the course of my lifetime I have formed a sense of what sort of things do happen, and what sort of things don't happen.

For example, that the Universe could create a carnival named “Ticklecock” and attract the multitudes. Oh look! There goes Harbal sidling along!

But when you get there, having forked over €20 BTW to get in, there is no Miss Ticklecock to attend to you.

Your pain, Harbal, is understandable.

[Alexis Jacobi]

There is one thing no one of you is taking into consideration and that is the RETRIBUTION I will face at the hardened hands of Harry Baird for my ignoble neo-philosophical but ultimately evasive footwork here.

Divine mercy please help!

[Harbal]

What is implausible?

How does a bunch of atoms when arranged in a certain way permit the unique sensation within the entire universe for you to feel me when I punch you in the bollocks?

How do mere atoms arranged in a certain way manage such a sensation as sight sound pain etc..

PS. It's only plausible because you have experienced it. ipso facto - God forming water to wine is not implausible.

During the course of my lifetime I have formed a sense of what sort of things do happen, and what sort of things don't happen.

That's not enough to discount something to be completely implausible

It seems to be enough for me. There are some things that I consider to be implausible, yet still allow for their possibility, but your glass of water into wine nonsense isn't one of them.

[Harbal]

During the course of my lifetime I have formed a sense of what sort of things do happen, and what sort of things don't happen.

For example, that the Universe could create a carnival named “Ticklecock” and attract the multitudes. Oh look! There goes Harbal sidling along!

But when you get there, having forked over €20 BTW to get in, there is no Miss Ticklecock to attend to you.

Your pain, Harbal, is understandable.

We have £s in the UK, not €s. I didn't go in the end, I stayed home and washed my hair, instead.

[Iwannaplato]

I'm not really sure what you’re hoping to do in the thread.

Why must it be predetermined?

Well, you seemed a bit exasperated by how you were being responded to. If it's clear from the start that might change. But sure if you don't now or only know what you don't want to be asked about, well, we'll just have to work it out over time.

EDIT: I just realized this was in a longer post that gives my question a context.

By the way, if you ask me 'why must it be predetermined', does this mean it's not predetermined? I'm hoping I can take it that way, otherwise we're heading off on an unnecessary tangent.

[phyllo]

I'm not really sure what you’re hoping to do in the thread.

Why must it be predetermined?

Not predetermined but predictable.

You present the same questions to the same people who have the same reactions and give the same answers.

It repeats.

[Dubious]

….

Wednesday, Dubious! Mark Your Calendar!

I remain silent for the duration and await with trepidation!

[Alexis Jacobi]

Well, you seemed a bit exasperated by how you were being responded to.

My exasperation is really & truly on another plane altogether. (And all of that -- inner stuff -- is not affected by any of this that goes one here).

But yes, that you ask me to clarify to you exactly and precisely where I stand in relation to extremely difficult questions, which hinge into metaphysical and also supernatural issues (for example how I as a person perceive God or what spiritual life means for me -- these are just some of the questions) is bothersome. But you are just one here who does that and a similar thing.

We have to face this fact: the metaphysics of the traditional Catholic Church when examined critically are not and cannot be accepted by any person who writes on this forum. (However, with IC as a possible exception).

And that is really the more interesting issue to be discussed.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I'm not really sure what you’re hoping to do in the thread.

Why must it be predetermined?

Not predetermined but predictable.

You present the same questions to the same people who have the same reactions and give the same answers.

It repeats.

You are right, of course. But that is why the advantage I declare that I have -- being here and working through my own processes in relation to the general position of those who bother to participate here -- leaves me always in a favorable position. I gain advantages every day. I never lose.

The people that I am dealing with here are, really, a veritable cross-section of the people *out there*. They illustrate the general conditions of Occidental men (persons) who have, as I say, been extruded onto the Walmart floor of modernity.

Sometimes I feel that I *must resolve their conflict* -- in any case I certainly deal with it -- but I also know that this will not be possible given the adamancy, the solidity, of some postures.

[Harbal]

Why must it be predetermined?

Not predetermined but predictable.

You present the same questions to the same people who have the same reactions and give the same answers.

It repeats.

You are right, of course. But that is why the advantage I declare that I have -- being here and working through my own processes in relation to the general position of those who bother to participate here -- leaves me always in a favorable position. I gain advantages every day. I never lose.

The people that I am dealing with here are, really, a veritable cross-section of the people *out there*. They illustrate the general conditions of Occidental men (persons) who have, as I say, been extruded onto the Walmart floor of modernity.

Sometimes I feel that I *must resolve their conflict* -- in any case I certainly deal with it -- but I also know that this will not be possible given the adamancy, the solidity, of some postures.

You, too, are an interesting case, Jacobi, and I think there is something useful to be learned by observing your behaviour. After all, one never knows when one might encounter someone like you out in the real world. It never hurts to be prepared.

[phyllo]

You are right, of course. But that is why the advantage I declare that I have -- being here and working through my own processes in relation to the general position of those who bother to participate here -- leaves me always in a favorable position. I gain advantages every day. I never lose.

One learns more from losing than winning.

It seems to me that you keep going down similar paths and ending up in the same place.

The people that I am dealing with here are, really, a veritable cross-section of the people *out there*. They illustrate the general conditions of Occidental men (persons) who have, as I say, been extruded onto the Walmart floor of modernity.

I'm not sure how representative it is. The sample size seems much too small. And it's skewed towards a certain type of person.