smoking law abuse

[artisticsolution]

I don't understand the question.

Addiction is the main reason why they make drugs illegal.
For most people addiction is no problem, so why should I suffer from a prohibition on, say, cannabis, and Cokaine, to help those that might get addicted?
There is an added problem too - that alcohol and tobacco are addictive but they are not made illegal. These cause more social problems than cannabis ever could. So why have a prohibition on cannabis and not on alcohol or tobacco?
In fact what right does a government has to make anything that I might use to harm myself illegal - when it arbitrarily falls short of doing the same with cars, guns, bow and arrow, and many other lethal substances?
Is it not true that the law against drugs is more about stopping people having fun?

I agree with all of this. I don't think drugs should be illegal. I believe in freedom and that the people have the right to do with their lives as they see fit. Now I will say that drugs and alcohol often times make people behave aggressively toward other individuals, this is where I would want the law to come down hard. With freedom there is a great responsibility. In order to be free we must not allow the abuse of anyone other than ourselves. This includes harm done by individuals on mind altering drugs. In other words, I would not allow the excuse..."the drugs made me do it".

[chaz wyman]

I don't understand the question.

Addiction is the main reason why they make drugs illegal.
For most people addiction is no problem, so why should I suffer from a prohibition on, say, cannabis, and Cokaine, to help those that might get addicted?
There is an added problem too - that alcohol and tobacco are addictive but they are not made illegal. These cause more social problems than cannabis ever could. So why have a prohibition on cannabis and not on alcohol or tobacco?
In fact what right does a government has to make anything that I might use to harm myself illegal - when it arbitrarily falls short of doing the same with cars, guns, bow and arrow, and many other lethal substances?
Is it not true that the law against drugs is more about stopping people having fun?

I agree with all of this. I don't think drugs should be illegal. I believe in freedom and that the people have the right to do with their lives as they see fit. Now I will say that drugs and alcohol often times make people behave aggressively toward other individuals, this is where I would want the law to come down hard. With freedom there is a great responsibility. In order to be free we must not allow the abuse of anyone other than ourselves. This includes harm done by individuals on mind altering drugs. In other words, I would not allow the excuse..."the drugs made me do it".

What ever you might feel about free-will and determinism it is absolutely necessary that we realise that taking drugs or drinking is a choice and so if you run your car into someone drunk or hit someone whilst under the influence that is your choice.

The biggest problem I can see with drugs is that they are enjoyable but expensive because illegal, and the small number of addicts that we have do crime to fund their addiction.
Answer - let them have drugs at a fair market price. But clean and regulated, not the shit they get on the streets cut with boric acid and washing powder.
So instead of paying £20 for a hit 2 or three times a day they would get pure stuff for a couple of quid, with none of the side effects. If they want to cash out then don't let them rob the local shop for their hit.

[artisticsolution]

What ever you might feel about free-will and determinism it is absolutely necessary that we realise that taking drugs or drinking is a choice and so if you run your car into someone drunk or hit someone whilst under the influence that is your choice.

No, it should be your choice to do drugs...it should not be your right to kill someone while you are on drugs as that other person also has the freedom to live in the world without the fear of someone killing them because the person exercise their right to freedom and took drugs which altered their mind. It is the same as saying that people should not keep other people from drugs by making them illegal. Both are an action of taking away someone's freedom but one is simply taking away another's right to abuse such freedom and make it impossible for all to have freedom. Freedom for all is a responsibility of gigantic proportions.

If you are looking for an idealistic remedy for the problem of freedom I don't think there can be such a thing. As the act of being free is a group effort that cannot work unless we all value other people's freedom as much as our own. In order to say, "I want to be free, " one must also conclude that, "I want my neighbor to be free as well,' or nobody can be 'free" since there is always going to be someone bigger than you to take advantage of your freedom.

All my life I have stayed clear of drugs as a personal choice. This choice was made early in my youth when an uncle, who was hooked on heroin, held me with one hand, upside down, by my ankles, over a high rise balcony while my grandmother pleaded with him. "Please turn her loose!" As you can imagine, all I could do was look down at the pavement below and think, "Uh...grandma? Maybe 'turn her loose' are not the exact words you want to be saying right now."

Anyway, after the incident...I was told how wonderful a person he was when he wasn't on drugs. I never saw this side of him...and so to me that 'side' of him no longer existed. But I still existed...and I vowed never to take drug if it could make me lose sight of who I was and take away some one else's freedom. Freedom was just too dear to me. And while I don't wish to take away the freedom for other people to do drugs...I do wish to take their freedom away to harm me or take away my freedom. So the only legitimate way to do this is to allow freedom for all but make laws for personal responsibility of that freedom so that no one individual has the right to take the freedom of another individual as all freedom should be equal. If you are free to do drugs...I should be free to roam around the planet and do my thing. This is why I say, making drugs illegal takes your freedom away. Making it legal for you to do what you want to me while you are on drugs...takes my freedom away. Understand? It's not perfect...but it's as close as I think we are going to get to freedom for all.

[chaz wyman]

What ever you might feel about free-will and determinism it is absolutely necessary that we realise that taking drugs or drinking is a choice and so if you run your car into someone drunk or hit someone whilst under the influence that is your choice.

No, it should be your choice to do drugs...it should not be your right to kill someone while you are on drugs as that other person also has the freedom to live in the world without the fear of someone killing them because the person exercise their right to freedom and took drugs which altered their mind. It is the same as saying that people should not keep other people from drugs by making them illegal. Both are an action of taking away someone's freedom but one is simply taking away another's right to abuse such freedom and make it impossible for all to have freedom. Freedom for all is a responsibility of gigantic proportions.

You have completely misread what I said, or you are confused.


If you are looking for an idealistic remedy for the problem of freedom I don't think there can be such a thing. As the act of being free is a group effort that cannot work unless we all value other people's freedom as much as our own. In order to say, "I want to be free, " one must also conclude that, "I want my neighbor to be free as well,' or nobody can be 'free" since there is always going to be someone bigger than you to take advantage of your freedom.

I am saying that taking drugs is no different from drinking alcohol within this term of reference. My comments were directed at imposing responsibility for ALL ones actions. If you drink and drive, there is no excuse for saying "it was the drink that made me do it". Drinking and driving recklessly is no different from the deliberate act of shooting a person.


All my life I have stayed clear of drugs as a personal choice.

Shame - you might be a bit more open minded. Do you drink? Have you ever had a drink? Do you think that drinking ought to be illegal?
As a child, I saw my mother beaten black and blue by her drunken boyfriend. I jumped on his back and hit him on the head with a lamp stand. I had to give evidence to the police - but despite all that she had him back after prison. Drinking is not nice.


This choice was made early in my youth when an uncle, who was hooked on heroin, held me with one hand, upside down, by my ankles, over a high rise balcony while my grandmother pleaded with him. "Please turn her loose!" As you can imagine, all I could do was look down at the pavement below and think, "Uh...grandma? Maybe 'turn her loose' are not the exact words you want to be saying right now."

SO if he had been drunk on alcohol would that make a different case?

Anyway, after the incident...I was told how wonderful a person he was when he wasn't on drugs. I never saw this side of him...and so to me that 'side' of him no longer existed. But I still existed...and I vowed never to take drug if it could make me lose sight of who I was and take away some one else's freedom.

But you are making my point in a sense - I am saying that he is wholly responsible for his actions and further that it was the duty of any adults present at the time to turn him in to the police to face charges of endangering your life.

Freedom was just too dear to me. And while I don't wish to take away the freedom for other people to do drugs...I do wish to take their freedom away to harm me or take away my freedom. So the only legitimate way to do this is to allow freedom for all but make laws for personal responsibility of that freedom so that no one individual has the right to take the freedom of another individual as all freedom should be equal. If you are free to do drugs...I should be free to roam around the planet and do my thing. This is why I say, making drugs illegal takes your freedom away. Making it legal for you to do what you want to me while you are on drugs...takes my freedom away. Understand? It's not perfect...but it's as close as I think we are going to get to freedom for all.

You are talking gibberish. I'm not advocating that people be allowed to harm other people. Understand? But I am advocating the right to hurt yourself should you want to. Understand? If you are going to make drugs illegal, you ought to consider the most dangerous to other people and that is alcohol. Understand?

[artisticsolution]

C:I am saying that taking drugs is no different from drinking alcohol within this term of reference.

AS:Depends on the drug. When I was pregnant and in labor the hospital gave me a drug called staydol (sp?) Anyway, it made me have hallucinations...funny hallucinations but hallucinations none the less. I did not like the feeling and now warn my doctors to not give me that again as I would rather be aware and feel the pain than to be out of my mind. My point is...other prescription drugs I have taken do not have this same effect. Also, drinking alcohol seems to alter my state of being but does not make me out of my mind ...I still know that I am alive and drunk. I am still aware that the room is spinning. I do not have hallucinations which make me feel I am not in reality.

C:My comments were directed at imposing responsibility for ALL ones actions. If you drink and drive, there is no excuse for saying "it was the drink that made me do it". Drinking and driving recklessly is no different from the deliberate act of shooting a person.

AS: Oh...my apologies. Yes, I agree. I believe we should be held responsible for our choices.

C:Shame - you might be a bit more open minded.

AS:I could say the same about you. You could be more open minded and not do drugs. What does our preference in life have to do with anything? I happened to have a bad experience which caused me to fear taking street drugs. You might have had a bad experience with something else and be afraid of water. Who the fuck knows what causes irrational fear. But I certainly wouldn't call your fear closed mindedness or try to shame you into changing as I understand it is a psychological problem and I am not an expert. I don't impose my views on others. Unlike you who are trying to insult me in order to make me conform. I have a fucking mind of my own thank you and I will decide my likes and dislikes...if you don't like it... tough.

C: Do you drink? Have you ever had a drink? Do you think that drinking ought to be illegal?

AS: Yes. Yes. No. What does this have to do with anything?

C:SO if he had been drunk on alcohol would that make a different case?

AS: It might have. I don't know. It didn't happen that way. He was hooked on heroin. He was in prison most of his life and then died from an overdose. Rarely have I seen an alcoholic chase someone down the street with a butcher knife like I experienced with my uncle. I have never done heroin so I don't know what effect it has on the mind. But I do know that certain drugs seem harsher than others. This doesn't mean I think they should be illegal .

C:But you are making my point in a sense - I am saying that he is wholly responsible for his actions and further that it was the duty of any adults present at the time to turn him in to the police to face charges of endangering your life.

AS: I agree. But that was then...this is now. Who knows her motivation. Certainly she had no prior experience with heroin so I doubt she knew what to do. People were more naive back then.

C:If you are going to make drugs illegal, you ought to consider the most dangerous to other people and that is alcohol.

AS: I don't agree. I believe it depends on the person. Everyone's reaction is different. But who says I want to make drugs illegal? Haven't I made this point clear?

[chaz wyman]

C:I am saying that taking drugs is no different from drinking alcohol within this term of reference.

AS:Depends on the drug. When I was pregnant and in labor the hospital gave me a drug called staydol (sp?) Anyway, it made me have hallucinations...funny hallucinations but hallucinations none the less. I did not like the feeling and now warn my doctors to not give me that again as I would rather be aware and feel the pain than to be out of my mind. My point is...other prescription drugs I have taken do not have this same effect. Also, drinking alcohol seems to alter my state of being but does not make me out of my mind ...I still know that I am alive and drunk. I am still aware that the room is spinning. I do not have hallucinations which make me feel I am not in reality.

You are missing the point. You have been given a legal drug, and you have a choice. If there was a good medical reason for you to have an illegal drug not even a doctor would be able to supply it to you.

C:My comments were directed at imposing responsibility for ALL ones actions. If you drink and drive, there is no excuse for saying "it was the drink that made me do it". Drinking and driving recklessly is no different from the deliberate act of shooting a person.

AS: Oh...my apologies. Yes, I agree. I believe we should be held responsible for our choices.

That was the meaning of my comment "it is a choice", not a right.

C:Shame - you might be a bit more open minded.

AS:I could say the same about you. You could be more open minded and not do drugs.

I have knowledge of the effects of the drugs , and that makes me less ignorant of them. I haven't done drugs for years; choice.
But at least I know what the choice is.

What does our preference in life have to do with anything? I happened to have a bad experience which caused me to fear taking street drugs. You might have had a bad experience with something else and be afraid of water. Who the fuck knows what causes irrational fear. But I certainly wouldn't call your fear closed mindedness or try to shame you into changing as I understand it is a psychological problem and I am not an expert. I don't impose my views on others. Unlike you who are trying to insult me in order to make me conform. I have a fucking mind of my own thank you and I will decide my likes and dislikes...if you don't like it... tough.

C: Do you drink? Have you ever had a drink? Do you think that drinking ought to be illegal?

AS: Yes. Yes. No. What does this have to do with anything?

Drinking can be far more damaging than cannabis. You are ignorant of cannabis because you have allowed someone else to make choices for you. And you think you are open minded?!?!?



C:SO if he had been drunk on alcohol would that make a different case?

AS: It might have. I don't know. It didn't happen that way. He was hooked on heroin. He was in prison most of his life and then died from an overdose. Rarely have I seen an alcoholic chase someone down the street with a butcher knife like I experienced with my uncle. I have never done heroin so I don't know what effect it has on the mind. But I do know that certain drugs seem harsher than others. This doesn't mean I think they should be illegal .

C:But you are making my point in a sense - I am saying that he is wholly responsible for his actions and further that it was the duty of any adults present at the time to turn him in to the police to face charges of endangering your life.

AS: I agree. But that was then...this is now. Who knows her motivation. Certainly she had no prior experience with heroin so I doubt she knew what to do. People were more naive back then.

What more naive than you are now?

C:If you are going to make drugs illegal, you ought to consider the most dangerous to other people and that is alcohol.

AS: I don't agree. I believe it depends on the person. Everyone's reaction is different. But who says I want to make drugs illegal? Haven't I made this point clear?

Your hubris is due to you not reading the whole thread and misreading my comments.

[chaz wyman]

C:I am saying that taking drugs is no different from drinking alcohol within this term of reference.

AS:Depends on the drug. When I was pregnant and in labor the hospital gave me a drug called staydol (sp?) Anyway, it made me have hallucinations...funny hallucinations but hallucinations none the less. I did not like the feeling and now warn my doctors to not give me that again as I would rather be aware and feel the pain than to be out of my mind. My point is...other prescription drugs I have taken do not have this same effect. Also, drinking alcohol seems to alter my state of being but does not make me out of my mind ...I still know that I am alive and drunk. I am still aware that the room is spinning. I do not have hallucinations which make me feel I am not in reality.

You are missing the point. You have been given a legal drug, and you have a choice. If there was a good medical reason for you to have an illegal drug not even a doctor would be able to supply it to you.

C:My comments were directed at imposing responsibility for ALL ones actions. If you drink and drive, there is no excuse for saying "it was the drink that made me do it". Drinking and driving recklessly is no different from the deliberate act of shooting a person.

AS: Oh...my apologies. Yes, I agree. I believe we should be held responsible for our choices.

That was the meaning of my comment "it is a choice", not a right.

C:Shame - you might be a bit more open minded.

AS:I could say the same about you. You could be more open minded and not do drugs.

I have knowledge of the effects of the drugs , and that makes me less ignorant of them. I haven't done drugs for years; choice.
But at least I know what the choice is.

What does our preference in life have to do with anything? I happened to have a bad experience which caused me to fear taking street drugs. You might have had a bad experience with something else and be afraid of water. Who the fuck knows what causes irrational fear. But I certainly wouldn't call your fear closed mindedness or try to shame you into changing as I understand it is a psychological problem and I am not an expert. I don't impose my views on others. Unlike you who are trying to insult me in order to make me conform. I have a fucking mind of my own thank you and I will decide my likes and dislikes...if you don't like it... tough.

C: Do you drink? Have you ever had a drink? Do you think that drinking ought to be illegal?

AS: Yes. Yes. No. What does this have to do with anything?

Drinking can be far more damaging than cannabis. You are ignorant of cannabis because you have allowed someone else to make choices for you. And you think you are open minded?!?!?



C:SO if he had been drunk on alcohol would that make a different case?

AS: It might have. I don't know. It didn't happen that way. He was hooked on heroin. He was in prison most of his life and then died from an overdose. Rarely have I seen an alcoholic chase someone down the street with a butcher knife like I experienced with my uncle. I have never done heroin so I don't know what effect it has on the mind. But I do know that certain drugs seem harsher than others. This doesn't mean I think they should be illegal .

C:But you are making my point in a sense - I am saying that he is wholly responsible for his actions and further that it was the duty of any adults present at the time to turn him in to the police to face charges of endangering your life.

AS: I agree. But that was then...this is now. Who knows her motivation. Certainly she had no prior experience with heroin so I doubt she knew what to do. People were more naive back then.

What more naive than you are now?

C:If you are going to make drugs illegal, you ought to consider the most dangerous to other people and that is alcohol.

AS: I don't agree. I believe it depends on the person. Everyone's reaction is different. But who says I want to make drugs illegal? Haven't I made this point clear?

Your hubris is due to you not reading the whole thread and misreading my comments.

[Typist]

So is that a no on lining all the tobacco executives up against the wall? Darn...

[Kayla]

Cannabis leads to Coke , coke leads to Heroine - you've heard the story. So why don't they also ban smoking and drink. Does not drink lead to other drugs, and does not smoking lead to cannabis?

not what i am saying at all because you do pot doesnt mean you will move on to meth but if someone takes your pot away you will probably find soemthing else that is fun and halves your iq i agree the gateway drug theory is wrong but i am not saying that at all

PS it's s good thing to hear a young person so anti-smoking.

i dont have much choice in the matter

both my parents were smokers till my brother and i were born and when they brought us home i had a major astma attack on the spot thats how they realized jsut how senstive i am to cigarette smoke i had to go right back into hospital so they had to quit

if anyone smelling even faintly of tobacco smoke would try to pick me up i am told i would scream at the top of my lungs

i am better socialized now so i just want to scream when i smell its a horrible smell i swear dog poo smells better

I've done every other drug under the sun and have only ever been addicted to tobacco.

well i react to pot almost as strongly as i do to cigs i drank a whole bottle of cough syrop once some of my friends are into it and it was kind of fun until thor showed up and lectured me on the evils of drugs for like ever that was too weird no drugs for me

[chaz wyman]

Cannabis leads to Coke , coke leads to Heroine - you've heard the story. So why don't they also ban smoking and drink. Does not drink lead to other drugs, and does not smoking lead to cannabis?

not what i am saying at all because you do pot doesnt mean you will move on to meth but if someone takes your pot away you will probably find soemthing else that is fun and halves your iq i agree the gateway drug theory is wrong but i am not saying that at all

PS it's s good thing to hear a young person so anti-smoking.

i dont have much choice in the matter

both my parents were smokers till my brother and i were born and when they brought us home i had a major astma attack on the spot thats how they realized jsut how senstive i am to cigarette smoke i had to go right back into hospital so they had to quit

if anyone smelling even faintly of tobacco smoke would try to pick me up i am told i would scream at the top of my lungs

i am better socialized now so i just want to scream when i smell its a horrible smell i swear dog poo smells better

I've done every other drug under the sun and have only ever been addicted to tobacco.

well i react to pot almost as strongly as i do to cigs i drank a whole bottle of cough syrop once some of my friends are into it and it was kind of fun until thor showed up and lectured me on the evils of drugs for like ever that was too weird no drugs for me

Did you mean Thor as the in the Viking god of Thunder??
If you don't do drugs then I'm certainly not going to recommend them.
If you do drugs them make sure YOU do them, and that they don't do you.
Your lucky with the tobacco. I had asthma too, though the whole family smoked then never put tow and two together. But things were different in the 1960s.

[Kayla]

Did you mean Thor as the in the Viking god of Thunder??

thats the one wieird huh now that i think about it he looked like my dad

my friends bought a cough syrop containing acetominophen and dm for the occasion i had to poitn out that a whole bottle of that was going to kill them it being that acetominiphen will fry your liver if you take too much they went back to the drug store and got the stuff with just the dm

my dad was the one who in one of his dont do drugs but if you do dont kill yourself speeches told me that if you try to get high on the wrong kind of cough syrop you will die horribly so he is the one who saved my friends lives that night he is my hero even if he is a republican

Your lucky with the tobacco. I had asthma too, though the whole family smoked then never put tow and two together. But things were different in the 1960s.

well sort of lucky my lungs are sensitive to all sorts of crap although it takes tobacco to really set me off but any large city in the summer is off limits to me even with astma medication