The USA and Israel

[seeds]

I don't give a damn about Hamas's Leaders. My main concern is about Gazaians who are dying for no good reason. Both Israel and Hamas are responsible for this.

Come on now, bahman, you can't reason with a person who has already accepted the notion that sometime in the future, he will be "perfectly content" knowing that billions of his fellow humans (which could include his own family members) will be forever writhing in agony from being brutally tortured in a dimension of reality called Hell,...

...while at the same time, he (IC) will be enjoying the endless pleasures offered to him in Heaven by the very Being that's torturing his friends and loved ones.

The point is that if IC is okay with the notion of billions of humans (including his own loved ones) being subjected to unthinkable degrees of eternal torture - trillions of years into the infinite,...

...then the thought of the "temporary" pain and discomfort experienced by thousands of children who are being savagely injured or blown to bits by American-made Israeli bombs, is a mere walk in the park for him.
_______

I cannot agree more!

Yet you keep trying to reason with him anyway.

As the old saying goes...



And what is known is that by initially (and violently) expelling the Palestinian people from their homes and sources of income and forcing them to live in what has been called an "open air prison" for decades,...

...an egregious (and ever-festering) wrong has been perpetrated by the Israelis and their western backers.

And the fact that some of the members of this forum keep ignoring the initial cause of this mess is precisely why the above aphorism by John Heywood is so apropos in this situation.
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[Immanuel Can]

Gazans cannot do this even if they want it. Hamas is armed to the teeth!

Gazans can point them out. The Israeli guns are bigger. But the Gazans also did not need to elect a terroristic government. They did. And now they're seeing what that choice has caused. It's a bitter pill, to be sure. But the only way out, for them, is to get rid of the bad choice they formerly made, and start making better choices.

Gazans were wrong in supporting Hamas. That does not mean that they deserve such a situation.

No, they don't deserve it. But they're getting it because they prepared it themselves. They elected HAMAS, they allowed the tunnels to be built, the munitions to be stockpiled, their civic sites to become hives for terrorism, and they kept the secret from the world. Then they danced in the streets when HAMAS massacred the Israelis.

And now they have to make better choices, or they'll never get out of it.

[bahman]

Come on now, bahman, you can't reason with a person who has already accepted the notion that sometime in the future, he will be "perfectly content" knowing that billions of his fellow humans (which could include his own family members) will be forever writhing in agony from being brutally tortured in a dimension of reality called Hell,...

...while at the same time, he (IC) will be enjoying the endless pleasures offered to him in Heaven by the very Being that's torturing his friends and loved ones.

The point is that if IC is okay with the notion of billions of humans (including his own loved ones) being subjected to unthinkable degrees of eternal torture - trillions of years into the infinite,...

...then the thought of the "temporary" pain and discomfort experienced by thousands of children who are being savagely injured or blown to bits by American-made Israeli bombs, is a mere walk in the park for him.
_______

I cannot agree more!

Yet you keep trying to reason with him anyway.

As the old saying goes...



And what is known is that by initially (and violently) expelling the Palestinian people from their homes and sources of income and forcing them to live in what has been called an "open air prison" for decades,...

...an egregious (and ever-festering) wrong has been perpetrated by the Israelis and their western backers.

And the fact that some of the members of this forum keep ignoring the initial cause of this mess is precisely why the above aphorism by John Heywood is so apropos in this situation.
_______

Why don't you tell him this?

[bahman]

Gazans can point them out. The Israeli guns are bigger. But the Gazans also did not need to elect a terroristic government. They did. And now they're seeing what that choice has caused. It's a bitter pill, to be sure. But the only way out, for them, is to get rid of the bad choice they formerly made, and start making better choices.

Gazans were wrong in supporting Hamas. That does not mean that they deserve such a situation.

No, they don't deserve it. But they're getting it because they prepared it themselves. They elected HAMAS, they allowed the tunnels to be built, the munitions to be stockpiled, their civic sites to become hives for terrorism, and they kept the secret from the world. Then they danced in the streets when HAMAS massacred the Israelis.

And now they have to make better choices, or they'll never get out of it.

What do you mean by better choices? To elect another party in the middle of the war!

[Immanuel Can]

Gazans were wrong in supporting Hamas. That does not mean that they deserve such a situation.

No, they don't deserve it. But they're getting it because they prepared it themselves. They elected HAMAS, they allowed the tunnels to be built, the munitions to be stockpiled, their civic sites to become hives for terrorism, and they kept the secret from the world. Then they danced in the streets when HAMAS massacred the Israelis.

And now they have to make better choices, or they'll never get out of it.

What do you mean by better choices? To elect another party in the middle of the war!

At least get rid of the villains they've got. Stop supporting and protecting HAMAS. Return the hostages. Expose the terrorists. Then make a new deal with Israel, instead.

[bahman]

No, they don't deserve it. But they're getting it because they prepared it themselves. They elected HAMAS, they allowed the tunnels to be built, the munitions to be stockpiled, their civic sites to become hives for terrorism, and they kept the secret from the world. Then they danced in the streets when HAMAS massacred the Israelis.

And now they have to make better choices, or they'll never get out of it.

What do you mean by better choices? To elect another party in the middle of the war!

At least get rid of the villains they've got.

They cannot get rid of the hate they have for Israelis for different reasons, for losing their land, getting killed, and living in what has been called an "open-air prison" for decades,...

Stop supporting and protecting HAMAS.

They cannot do that. They hate Israel for the above-mentioned reasons.

Return the hostages.

They cannot do that either. Hostages are in the hands of Hamas.

Expose the terrorists.

To be a spy for Israel that they hate!?

Then make a new deal with Israel, instead.

What deal? Their homes are destroyed, their relatives are killed and injured, they are starving, they are sick,... The more Israel continues the war the worse the situation becomes.

[Immanuel Can]

What do you mean by better choices? To elect another party in the middle of the war!

At least get rid of the villains they've got.

They cannot get rid of the hate they have for Israelis for different reasons, for losing their land, getting killed, and living in what has been called an "open-air prison" for decades,...

That's actually quite false. Have you seen any pictures from their alleged "open air prision" lately? Google "Gaza tourism," and you'll see this "prison."

But hatred has not done them any favours. The Palestinians' hatred led them to abandon Israel in 1948, when it also led them to leave their homes. Their hatred made them refuse to join Israel. Their hatred put them in limited areas. Then their hatred cost them more and more land. Their hatred made them elect HAMAS, and put them under its tyranny. Their hatred cost them all their foreign aid, lost into munitions, tunnels and plots. And now it has locked them in a death-struggle with a country that is far more militarily powerful, from which they refuse to be extricated.

How do you think this is going to end?

Stop supporting and protecting HAMAS.

They cannot do that.

Sure, they can. Anybody can give up hatred, if they only have sense to do it.

Return the hostages.

They cannot do that either. Hostages are in the hands of Hamas.

Easy. Just tell the Israelis where they hostages are.

Expose the terrorists.

To be a spy for Israel that they hate!?

No. Just hand over the murderers to justice. It's no less than they deserve.

Then make a new deal with Israel, instead.

What deal?

Coexistence. Lots of other Arabs have done it. Almost 3 million of them, including many Palestinians, have made the wise choice.

[iambiguous]

And then of course this part: https://www.quora.com/Are-Christians-go ... ame-heaven

Will IC go to Hell if he doesn't become a Jew? No, seriously.

[bahman]

At least get rid of the villains they've got.

They cannot get rid of the hate they have for Israelis for different reasons, for losing their land, getting killed, and living in what has been called an "open-air prison" for decades,...

That's actually quite false. Have you seen any pictures from their alleged "open air prision" lately? Google "Gaza tourism," and you'll see this "prison."

But hatred has not done them any favours. The Palestinians' hatred led them to abandon Israel in 1948, when it also led them to leave their homes. Their hatred made them refuse to join Israel. Their hatred put them in limited areas. Then their hatred cost them more and more land. Their hatred made them elect HAMAS, and put them under its tyranny. Their hatred cost them all their foreign aid, lost into munitions, tunnels and plots. And now it has locked them in a death-struggle with a country that is far more militarily powerful, from which they refuse to be extricated.

How do you think this is going to end?

Stop supporting and protecting HAMAS.

They cannot do that.

Sure, they can. Anybody can give up hatred, if they only have sense to do it.

Return the hostages.

They cannot do that either. Hostages are in the hands of Hamas.

Easy. Just tell the Israelis where they hostages are.

Expose the terrorists.

To be a spy for Israel that they hate!?

No. Just hand over the murderers to justice. It's no less than they deserve.

Then make a new deal with Israel, instead.

What deal?

Coexistence. Lots of other Arabs have done it. Almost 3 million of them, including many Palestinians, have made the wise choice.

What deal? Their homes are destroyed, their relatives are killed and injured, they are starving, they are sick,... The more Israel continues the war the worse the situation becomes.

[Immanuel Can]

What deal?

Coexistence, just like all the Arab-Israeli citizens currently have it. It's very far from impossible, and not even difficult: it's already being done, by others. Just stop being racist and genocidal, and accept the permanent reality that other people have a right to live.

Think about it: what future have Palestinians got if they keep surfing on their hatred and xenophobia? And what choice will they leave Israel if unrelenting murder is the only thing they promise that is to come? They will compel their own destruction and the destruction of their own children, as they have already.

Time for a new strategy, I would say.

[bahman]

What deal?

Coexistence, just like all the Arab-Israeli citizens currently have it. It's very far from impossible, and not even difficult: it's already being done, by others. Just stop being racist and genocidal, and accept the permanent reality that other people have a right to live.

Think about it: what future have Palestinians got if they keep surfing on their hatred and xenophobia? And what choice will they leave Israel if unrelenting murder is the only thing they promise that is to come? They will compel their own destruction and the destruction of their own children, as they have already.

Time for a new strategy, I would say.

Perhaps Gazan's people are not held in the same situation as others. Otherwise why they should be psychologically inclined to support Hamas?

[Immanuel Can]

What deal?

Coexistence, just like all the Arab-Israeli citizens currently have it. It's very far from impossible, and not even difficult: it's already being done, by others. Just stop being racist and genocidal, and accept the permanent reality that other people have a right to live.

Think about it: what future have Palestinians got if they keep surfing on their hatred and xenophobia? And what choice will they leave Israel if unrelenting murder is the only thing they promise that is to come? They will compel their own destruction and the destruction of their own children, as they have already.

Time for a new strategy, I would say.

Perhaps Gazan's people are not held in the same situation as others. Otherwise why they should be psychologically inclined to support Hamas?

That is a very, very good question: and the answer would require us to explore the particular beliefs and culture of the Palestinians. Because there's certainly no other reason why they could not do, or have done, what so many other Israeli Arabs so successfully achieved.

[bahman]

Coexistence, just like all the Arab-Israeli citizens currently have it. It's very far from impossible, and not even difficult: it's already being done, by others. Just stop being racist and genocidal, and accept the permanent reality that other people have a right to live.

Think about it: what future have Palestinians got if they keep surfing on their hatred and xenophobia? And what choice will they leave Israel if unrelenting murder is the only thing they promise that is to come? They will compel their own destruction and the destruction of their own children, as they have already.

Time for a new strategy, I would say.

Perhaps Gazan's people are not held in the same situation as others. Otherwise why they should be psychologically inclined to support Hamas?

That is a very, very good question: and the answer would require us to explore the particular beliefs and culture of the Palestinians. Because there's certainly no other reason why they could not do, or have done, what so many other Israeli Arabs so successfully achieved.

They are either not well educated or their situation was not fair or both. Either way, continuing war is not a solution to this pitful situation that they are enduring right now.

[seeds]

I cannot agree more!

Yet you keep trying to reason with him anyway.

As the old saying goes...



And what is known is that by initially (and violently) expelling the Palestinian people from their homes and sources of income and forcing them to live in what has been called an "open air prison" for decades,...

...an egregious (and ever-festering) wrong has been perpetrated by the Israelis and their western backers.

And the fact that some of the members of this forum keep ignoring the initial cause of this mess is precisely why the above aphorism by John Heywood is so apropos in this situation.
_______

Why don't you tell him this?

Read my lips, bahman...

---It's because he cannot be reasoned with---

Haven't you figured that out yet?

I don't know why we all spend so much time talking with (and about) this brainwashed, closed-minded member of the forum.

I suppose it's because he's such a brazen hypocrite in how he puts on an air of being a devout Christian yet at the same time is utterly devoid of any "Christ-like" empathy for the children of Gaza.

Furthermore, he'll simply continue to ignore the initial cause of the Palestinian vs Israeli dispute and keep insisting that whatever is happening to the Gazans is their own fault for not rolling over like cowering dogs and simply accepting the theft of their homes and lands.

Now I don't mean to be mean-spirited about this, but I'm getting sick of this crap, for it is obvious that IC is a hypocrite through and through, for he let it slip out that he thinks that the very premise upon which Christianity is founded - "Original Sin" - is "hogwash."

And, again, I remind you of how utterly ridiculous it is that we are arguing with a person who - in the end - believes (as mentioned earlier) that there will come a time when he will be completely "content" in Heaven while knowing that at the very same time, billions of his fellow humans are being savagely tortured in Hell for Eternity.

As I have asked before - "...Who are the "real demons" in that scenario?..."
_______

[bahman]

Yet you keep trying to reason with him anyway.

As the old saying goes...



And what is known is that by initially (and violently) expelling the Palestinian people from their homes and sources of income and forcing them to live in what has been called an "open air prison" for decades,...

...an egregious (and ever-festering) wrong has been perpetrated by the Israelis and their western backers.

And the fact that some of the members of this forum keep ignoring the initial cause of this mess is precisely why the above aphorism by John Heywood is so apropos in this situation.
_______

Why don't you tell him this?

Read my lips, bahman...

---It's because he cannot be reasoned with---

Haven't you figured that out yet?

I don't know why we all spend so much time talking with (and about) this brainwashed, closed-minded member of the forum.

I suppose it's because he's such a brazen hypocrite in how he puts on an air of being a devout Christian yet at the same time is utterly devoid of any "Christ-like" empathy for the children of Gaza.

Furthermore, he'll simply continue to ignore the initial cause of the Palestinian vs Israeli dispute and keep insisting that whatever is happening to the Gazans is their own fault for not rolling over like cowering dogs and simply accepting the theft of their homes and lands.

Now I don't mean to be mean-spirited about this, but I'm getting sick of this crap, for it is obvious that IC is a hypocrite through and through, for he let it slip out that he thinks that the very premise upon which Christianity is founded - "Original Sin" - is "hogwash."

And, again, I remind you of how utterly ridiculous it is that we are arguing with a person who - in the end - believes (as mentioned earlier) that there will come a time when he will be completely "content" in Heaven while knowing that at the very same time, billions of his fellow humans are being savagely tortured in Hell for Eternity.

As I have asked before - "...Who are the "real demons" in that scenario?..."
_______

Ok, I hope that he reads this post and replies to it!