The USA and Israel

[phyllo]

Well, they killed 695, including women, children, the elderly...so yeah, they have "ability."

I don't know where you got that number.

I've posted how many were killed since 2000 and since 2008. And it's significantly more Palestinians than Israelis.

That's not an answer.

It is an answer.

Hamas is not an entity can be held responsible. Individuals can be held responsible.

That applies to Jews and Israelis as well.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Keep your ass inside your country and defend. They have Iron Dome so why bother with rocketing? Keep your mind open to negotiation.

They did that. Hamas breeched their wall and murdered them. And Hamas vows not to stop murdering them, and will not even keep a ceasefire. So now what?

They managed to repel Hamas so they in principle could defend themselves. Again, defend yourself within your border instead of destroying cities that lead to nearly 20,000 deaths. Keep your mind open to negotiation and try to see what is the source of the problem, namely occupation!

Wow, those numbers go up by the thousands every minute. 'Interesting' the way Jew-haters have at the same time made a big show of making the number murdered on 7/10 smaller and smaller at the same time. Gosh. What a 'coincidence'. They must be coming back from the dead like McJebus.
Hamas certainly has a lot to answer for when it comes to the death of its own countrymen, oops, I mean those other people in that place where they themselves don't live. I wonder how they communicate from their luxury homes in Quatar when Gaza has 'no power or internet'. Must be by carrier pigeon.

[bahman]

They managed to repel Hamas so they in principle could defend themselves.

How do they prevent Hamas from just doing it again? They have the tunnels, the rockets, the bombs, and the clearly-expressed death wish; they have rich and powerful backers, and live on your borders, and don't mind how many of their people have to die. How do you stop that?

First, it is a failure of Israel's intelligence agency not to be able to know about such a sizeable attack. It is a mistake to take war into civilian areas killing innocent mainly with dumb bombs. Stop the war and be open to negotiation. Try to see what is the root of the problem, occupation. Try to accept your failure in all things mentioned and improve your defense.

[bahman]

They did that. Hamas breeched their wall and murdered them. And Hamas vows not to stop murdering them, and will not even keep a ceasefire. So now what?

They managed to repel Hamas so they in principle could defend themselves. Again, defend yourself within your border instead of destroying cities that lead to nearly 20,000 deaths. Keep your mind open to negotiation and try to see what is the source of the problem, namely occupation!

Wow, those numbers go up by the thousands every minute. 'Interesting' the way Jew-haters have at the same time made a big show of making the number murdered on 7/10 smaller and smaller at the same time. Gosh. What a 'coincidence'.
Hamas certainly has a lot to answer for when it comes to the death of its own countrymen, oops, I mean those other people in that place where they themselves don't live. I wonder how they communicate from their luxury homes in Quatar when Gaza has 'no power or internet'. Must be by carrier pigeon.

Hamas did wrong, so what? Does that mean that a civilian country is allowed to do that?

[Immanuel Can]

They managed to repel Hamas so they in principle could defend themselves.

How do they prevent Hamas from just doing it again? They have the tunnels, the rockets, the bombs, and the clearly-expressed death wish; they have rich and powerful backers, and live on your borders, and don't mind how many of their people have to die. How do you stop that?

First, it is a failure of Israel's intelligence agency not to be able to know about such a sizeable attack.

So...it's not that Hamas was cunning and devious, and hid their plans? And it's not Hamas's fault for raping, murdering and kidnapping civilians? It's the Israeli's fault -- because they should have been paternalisticaly in control of the naive and foolish Gazans, and weren't? That's your argument?

Too funny. Try again.

[Immanuel Can]

Well, they killed 695, including women, children, the elderly...so yeah, they have "ability."

I don't know where you got that number.

Recent statistics. At one time, they feared as many as 1,200 dead.

Hamas is not an entity can be held responsible. Individuals can be held responsible.

Naive. Ideology is what drives people. Hamas is a homicidal death cult. Do you really want to sell the argument that thousands of individuals just spontaneously jumped up, one day, and decided to murder Israeli civilians? They did that all on their own, unprovoked and unlead? And they coordinated their attack by accident? Or do you think there's just a sliver of a chance it had something to do with what those lunatics believed and did?

And what made so many Arabs worldwide, a great many of them not themselves Palestians, decide to dance in the streets? Was that all "individual," too?

[bahman]

How do they prevent Hamas from just doing it again? They have the tunnels, the rockets, the bombs, and the clearly-expressed death wish; they have rich and powerful backers, and live on your borders, and don't mind how many of their people have to die. How do you stop that?

First, it is a failure of Israel's intelligence agency not to be able to know about such a sizeable attack.

So...it's not that Hamas was cunning and devious, and hid their plans? And it's not Hamas's fault for raping, murdering and kidnapping civilians? It's the Israeli's fault -- because they should have been paternalisticaly in control of the naive and foolish Gazans, and weren't? That's your argument?

Too funny. Try again.

Hamas did wrong. I am not defending them. They are a terroristic group in your eyes. Isn't it? What is the justification for a civilian country to kill 20 times more? It seems that I cannot convince you, a Christian person, who does not believe in the teaching of Christ. Now it is your turn to open up and explain what is the solution from a Christian point of view to such a solution. And don't forget that, "love your enemy"!

[Immanuel Can]

First, it is a failure of Israel's intelligence agency not to be able to know about such a sizeable attack.

So...it's not that Hamas was cunning and devious, and hid their plans? And it's not Hamas's fault for raping, murdering and kidnapping civilians? It's the Israeli's fault -- because they should have been paternalisticaly in control of the naive and foolish Gazans, and weren't? That's your argument?

Too funny. Try again.

Hamas did wrong. I am not defending them. They are a terroristic group in your eyes.

What about yours. Is slaughtering children and raping civilians "terrorism," or not?

(I'll get to your objection when you give a reasonable answer to mine.)

[bahman]

So...it's not that Hamas was cunning and devious, and hid their plans? And it's not Hamas's fault for raping, murdering and kidnapping civilians? It's the Israeli's fault -- because they should have been paternalisticaly in control of the naive and foolish Gazans, and weren't? That's your argument?

Too funny. Try again.

Hamas did wrong. I am not defending them. They are a terroristic group in your eyes.

What about yours. Is slaughtering children and raping civilians "terrorism," or not?

(I'll get to your objection when you give a reasonable answer to mine.)

Yes, they are.

[phyllo]

Recent statistics. At one time, they feared as many as 1,200 dead.

No reference. Nothing. A random number.

Naive. Ideology is what drives people. Hamas is a homicidal death cult. Do you really want to sell the argument that thousands of individuals just spontaneously jumped up, one day, and decided to murder Israeli civilians? They did that all on their own, unprovoked and unlead? And they coordinated their attack by accident? Or do you think there's just a sliver of a chance it had something to do with what those lunatics believed and did?

Are you saying that every member of Hamas ought to be held responsible for the what happened on Oct 7?

Are you saying that all Palestinians ought to be held responsible for what happened on Oct 7?

Are you saying that all residents of Gaza ought to be held responsible for what happened on Oct 7?

Where does the responsibility begin and end?

The targets of punishment are not only those who participated in the events of Oct7.

[bahman]

Recent statistics. At one time, they feared as many as 1,200 dead.

No reference. Nothing. A random number.

Naive. Ideology is what drives people. Hamas is a homicidal death cult. Do you really want to sell the argument that thousands of individuals just spontaneously jumped up, one day, and decided to murder Israeli civilians? They did that all on their own, unprovoked and unlead? And they coordinated their attack by accident? Or do you think there's just a sliver of a chance it had something to do with what those lunatics believed and did?

Are you saying that every member of Hamas ought to be held responsible for the what happened on Oct 7?

Are you saying that all Palestinians ought to be held responsible for what happened on Oct 7?

Are you saying that all residents of Gaza ought to be held responsible for what happened on Oct 7?

Where does the responsibility begin and end?

The targets of punishment are not only those who participated in the events of Oct7.

Good answer!

[Immanuel Can]

Hamas did wrong. I am not defending them. They are a terroristic group in your eyes.

What about yours. Is slaughtering children and raping civilians "terrorism," or not?

(I'll get to your objection when you give a reasonable answer to mine.)

Yes, they are.

So Hamas are terrorists?

Okay. How does one safely negotiate with people whose only desire is to kill you, and to do so even at the expense of their own lives and the lives of their fellow citizens?

[Immanuel Can]

The targets of punishment are not only those who participated in the events of Oct7.

That's only because Hamas will not surrender and face the justice they deserve, and meanwhile, delights to put its own people in harm's way. That, too, is Hamas's fault. They could stop it today, if they wanted to. But they don't; because they don't want to. They want dead Palestinians...piles and piles of them, if possible. The more they get, the more pressure on Israel.

If anything else were true, they'd never have built their terrorist infrastructure with the aid dollars sent to them, and put it all under sensitive civilian sites. And they wouldn't let their terrorists dress as civilians, nor would they refuse to let civilians heed Israeli warnings and get out of danger. But they knew this would happen...they want it to...and they want to keep it going.

[phyllo]

That's only because Hamas will not surrender and face the justice they deserve, and meanwhile, delights to put its own people in harm's way.

No, that's because Israel doesn't care whether it kills Hamas or Palestinian civilians.

It just doesn't care.

And the USA enables it to happen.

[Immanuel Can]

That's only because Hamas will not surrender and face the justice they deserve, and meanwhile, delights to put its own people in harm's way.

No, that's because Israel doesn't care whether it kills Hamas or Palestinian civilians.

That's an odd supposition. It's bad PR for Israel if they did that. But in point of fact, they've issued orders to evacuate in advance of bombing, and the people have not been allowed to leave the danger area -- by Hamas. Hamas has actually shot some of its own people when they tried to escape being human shields.

Talk about no regard for life!

At least the Israelis TRY to avoid civilian casualties by issuing the warnings and focusing bombing on terrorist infrastructure...and why wouldn't they? It is better for Israel if they do avoid civilian deaths, and no win for them if innocents die. But it's better for Hamas if their own people die, apparently.

Remember that Hamas is the one that's been sending bombs "blind" into Israel, not even caring whom they kill. Remember that Hamas started this whole mess, by massacring civilians. Hamas is the side that kills its own. And Hamas is the one that will not let the fighting stop.