Quantitative vs Qualitative

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 5:21 am Noted, Environment, Psychology, Economics do not belong to the natural sciences per se, but that would be added knowledge.
But those are the ones using a weighting that is vaguely like yours. The gravity one isn't similar in type to yours, none of the numbers is made up. The psych and economics indeces sometimes do work in a slightly similar way to your thing, so those are the most useful things for you to refernce. But they don't pretend to be actually measuring trust, happiness, or confidence in the way that you insist you measure such immeasurables as morality and credibility. They just hope to fluctuate in a useful way with those phenomena, which is something you are too much of a gnat to learn from.
The contention here is you claimed earlier;

FDP: Those weighting systems are profoundly unscientific, and in context that is an additional problem because those weightings don't attempt to get to any truth, they are about consensus and decision making.

Based on ChatGpt’s omniscient [internet] you are wrong.
The fact is the natural sciences do rely on the principles of weightages to arrive at their conclusion.
Whilst my form is different, the principle of weightages is the same.

My planned objective is to ensure my proposed morality-proper FSK will be geared to an near as possible to the credibility and objective of the scientific FSK based on a set of to be agreed set of criteria.

As I had stated why you are unable to agree to my proposed approach is because your sense of objectivity is grounded on an illusion which is driven psychologically as alluded by Hume.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:14 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 5:21 am Noted, Environment, Psychology, Economics do not belong to the natural sciences per se, but that would be added knowledge.
But those are the ones using a weighting that is vaguely like yours. The gravity one isn't similar in type to yours, none of the numbers is made up. The psych and economics indeces sometimes do work in a slightly similar way to your thing, so those are the most useful things for you to refernce. But they don't pretend to be actually measuring trust, happiness, or confidence in the way that you insist you measure such immeasurables as morality and credibility. They just hope to fluctuate in a useful way with those phenomena, which is something you are too much of a gnat to learn from.
The contention here is you claimed earlier;

FDP: Those weighting systems are profoundly unscientific, and in context that is an additional problem because those weightings don't attempt to get to any truth, they are about consensus and decision making.

Based on ChatGpt’s omniscient [internet] you are wrong.
The fact is the natural sciences do rely on the principles of weightages to arrive at their conclusion.
Whilst my form is different, the principle of weightages is the same.

Based on the obvoius truth of the matter I am right. You can beg ChatGPT for approval all you like, yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.

The natural sciences don't tether made up numbers to each other as a means of doing science. You should know this. I still note that in this conversation you are hiding not only the input prompts you are using to get ChatGPT to give you the answers you want (your tradition being to disguise your bias), but also you aren't even showing the answers here. Why so coy all of a sudden?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:14 am My planned objective is to ensure my proposed morality-proper FSK will be geared to an near as possible to the credibility and objective of the scientific FSK based on a set of to be agreed set of criteria.

As I had stated why you are unable to agree to my proposed approach is because your sense of objectivity is grounded on an illusion which is driven psychologically as alluded by Hume.
I have pointed out an array of issues with your ersatz version of objectivity, and your response has always been to just invent a number and pretend it measures something. That's still all you are doing. Your pretensions to have the credibility of physics with this approach are delusions. You will fail because you are too arrogant to learn from a mistake.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:50 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:14 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:00 am
But those are the ones using a weighting that is vaguely like yours. The gravity one isn't similar in type to yours, none of the numbers is made up. The psych and economics indeces sometimes do work in a slightly similar way to your thing, so those are the most useful things for you to refernce. But they don't pretend to be actually measuring trust, happiness, or confidence in the way that you insist you measure such immeasurables as morality and credibility. They just hope to fluctuate in a useful way with those phenomena, which is something you are too much of a gnat to learn from.
The contention here is you claimed earlier;

FDP: Those weighting systems are profoundly unscientific, and in context that is an additional problem because those weightings don't attempt to get to any truth, they are about consensus and decision making.

Based on ChatGpt’s omniscient [internet] you are wrong.
The fact is the natural sciences do rely on the principles of weightages to arrive at their conclusion.
Whilst my form is different, the principle of weightages is the same.

Based on the obvoius truth of the matter I am right. You can beg ChatGPT for approval all you like, yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.

The natural sciences don't tether made up numbers to each other as a means of doing science. You should know this. I still note that in this conversation you are hiding not only the input prompts you are using to get ChatGPT to give you the answers you want (your tradition being to disguise your bias), but also you aren't even showing the answers here. Why so coy all of a sudden?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:14 am My planned objective is to ensure my proposed morality-proper FSK will be geared to an near as possible to the credibility and objective of the scientific FSK based on a set of to be agreed set of criteria.

As I had stated why you are unable to agree to my proposed approach is because your sense of objectivity is grounded on an illusion which is driven psychologically as alluded by Hume.
As I had argued,

There are Two Senses of 'Objectivity'
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39326
1. The mind-independence sense - philosophical realism
2. The FSR-FSK-ed sense [mine]

I have asked ChatGPT in this post
viewtopic.php?p=628290#p628290
whether "A Framework and System of Knowledge" approach is meaningful or not to be applied to science, and for morality as well.
The plain question [prompt] is implied in the answer and thus no need to repeat it.
Even though not perfect, I believe ChatGPT will give a very basic understanding of 'what is a FSK' in terms of general knowledge since ChatGPT has access to the whole database of accessible knowledge in the internet.

Those who are FSK skeptics in this case are insulting their own intelligence.

Here's ChatGPT's view:
ChatGPT wrote:Yes, the term "A Framework and System of Knowledge" is a meaningful and valid phrase to describe the structured organization and interrelatedness of knowledge in a particular field or discipline, such as science. It acknowledges that knowledge is not just a collection of isolated facts, but is rather an interconnected system of ideas and concepts that can be organized and studied within a framework or structure.

Using this phrase to describe scientific knowledge implies that there is a systematic process by which scientific facts are discovered, verified, and integrated into a broader understanding of the natural world. This can include concepts such as scientific method, peer review, and consensus-building within the scientific community.

Overall, while the specific phrase "A Framework and System of Knowledge" may not be commonly used, it accurately reflects the way that knowledge is organized and understood within many academic fields.
When asked of the FSK relevance to Morality:
Yes, the concept of a framework and system of knowledge can also be applied to the field of morality. In this case, the term would refer to the organized and structured understanding of moral principles and ethical theories within the discipline of ethics.

Within ethics, there are various frameworks and systems of knowledge that help to guide moral reasoning and decision-making. For example, consequentialist theories such as utilitarianism focus on the outcomes or consequences of actions, while deontological theories such as Kantian ethics prioritize following moral duties or rules regardless of their outcomes. Other ethical frameworks include virtue ethics, care ethics, and feminist ethics.

By understanding these different frameworks and systems of knowledge, individuals can more effectively navigate moral dilemmas and make informed ethical decisions. Overall, the concept of a framework and system of knowledge can be applied to many different fields, including both scientific and moral domains.
FDP wrote:I have pointed out an array of issues with your ersatz version of objectivity, and your response has always been to just invent a number and pretend it measures something. That's still all you are doing. Your pretensions to have the credibility of physics with this approach are delusions. You will fail because you are too arrogant to learn from a mistake.
I am aware of your criticisms and I am fully aware they are toothless in this case because your sense of objectivity is grounded on an illusion. This is like a theists rejecting whatever non-theists propose which is against their view. This is an outright psychological issue like what Hume did with causation.

Despite the unpolished work, my FSK approach enables us to bring science and theology into a common denominator and thus exposing the extreme contrast in terms of credibility, objectivity, truths, facts and reality.
Besides theology, we can easily contrast out the pseudo-sciences and other obvious contrasting cases.
Which rational and critical thinking person would deny this contrasting FSK-ed objectivity?

With greater polishing, we will be able to compare and place those which has lesser contrast from science as the STANDARD.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by FlashDangerpants »

You can beg ChatGPT for approval all you like, yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:46 am You can beg ChatGPT for approval all you like, yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
That is your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

So far, ChatGpt the 'internet-God' [omniscient] agrees the FSK approach is tenable.
As I had stated, the criteria I listed are the main ones.
As for the numbers I had proposed, they are tentative, provisional and unpolished.

After polishing them after 100 [prefer 500] rounds, I am confident I will arrive at something that will be acceptable to anyone who is rational and a critical thinker on this issue.

The critical point is there must be transparencies in the methodology and criteria used so that all judgments are qualified and conditioned upon the transparent conditions.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:21 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:46 am You can beg ChatGPT for approval all you like, yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
That is your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

So far, ChatGpt the 'internet-God' [omniscient] agrees the FSK approach is tenable.
As I had stated, the criteria I listed are the main ones.
As for the numbers I had proposed, they are tentative, provisional and unpolished.

After polishing them after 100 [prefer 500] rounds, I am confident I will arrive at something that will be acceptable to anyone who is rational and a critical thinker on this issue.

The critical point is there must be transparencies in the methodology and criteria used so that all judgments are qualified and conditioned upon the transparent conditions.
And yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:04 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:21 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:46 am You can beg ChatGPT for approval all you like, yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
That is your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

So far, ChatGpt the 'internet-God' [omniscient] agrees the FSK approach is tenable.
As I had stated, the criteria I listed are the main ones.
As for the numbers I had proposed, they are tentative, provisional and unpolished.

After polishing them after 100 [prefer 500] rounds, I am confident I will arrive at something that will be acceptable to anyone who is rational and a critical thinker on this issue.

The critical point is there must be transparencies in the methodology and criteria used so that all judgments are qualified and conditioned upon the transparent conditions.
And yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
As stated,
Those are your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

As I had stated, by encompassing theology within FSK-ed objectivity we are able to put theology in its place of being in the extreme contrast from the objectivity & reality of the scientific FSK as the Standard, which no rational and critical thinker is likely to object.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:03 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:04 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:21 am
That is your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

So far, ChatGpt the 'internet-God' [omniscient] agrees the FSK approach is tenable.
As I had stated, the criteria I listed are the main ones.
As for the numbers I had proposed, they are tentative, provisional and unpolished.

After polishing them after 100 [prefer 500] rounds, I am confident I will arrive at something that will be acceptable to anyone who is rational and a critical thinker on this issue.

The critical point is there must be transparencies in the methodology and criteria used so that all judgments are qualified and conditioned upon the transparent conditions.
And yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
As stated,
Those are your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

As I had stated, by encompassing theology within FSK-ed objectivity we are able to put theology in its place of being in the extreme contrast from the objectivity & reality of the scientific FSK as the Standard, which no rational and critical thinker is likely to object.
There's no reason to compare theology to science except in those cases where theology is trying to answer a scientific question (theology loses) or some idiot is trying to use science to asnwer a theological one (science loses). Making a table that compares them using made up numbers for no useful purpose is irrational compulsive behaviour.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:05 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:03 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:04 am
And yet it is a simple obvious fact that your inteded fix for the made up numbers that make your FSK things look so stupid is just to make up a more complicated way to make up more numbers to look even more stupid.
As stated,
Those are your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

As I had stated, by encompassing theology within FSK-ed objectivity we are able to put theology in its place of being in the extreme contrast from the objectivity & reality of the scientific FSK as the Standard, which no rational and critical thinker is likely to object.
There's no reason to compare theology to science except in those cases where theology is trying to answer a scientific question (theology loses) or some idiot is trying to use science to asnwer a theological one (science loses). Making a table that compares them using made up numbers for no useful purpose is irrational compulsive behaviour.
Note the pragmatism and potential utility of my FSK approach in comparing the scientific with theological FSK-ed objectivity.

Are you aware,
theists are claiming their God exists as 'real' to the extent that their God sends its son to communicate with humans or send his message through chosen prophets.
It is on this basis of their real God that certain religion get their sanctions to kill non-believers, where many a times was on a genocidal basis, and potentially will probably exterminate the human species in the future.

To counter and to bring the theists to their senses, we have to demonstrate their God cannot be really real in contrast [comparison] to scientific FSK facts as the most realistic.

The above objective basis of comparison will enable [in the future] for theists their belief in God is grounded on an illusion, thus the possibility of weaning the majority of theists off theism [in the future, not possible now] and eliminating the potential of extinction of the human species by certain theists via their theistic doctrines.

Your current ideology is hindering progress.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:25 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:05 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:03 am
As stated,
Those are your views which I don't respect because your sense of objectivity [mind-independence] is grounded on an illusion.

As I had stated, by encompassing theology within FSK-ed objectivity we are able to put theology in its place of being in the extreme contrast from the objectivity & reality of the scientific FSK as the Standard, which no rational and critical thinker is likely to object.
There's no reason to compare theology to science except in those cases where theology is trying to answer a scientific question (theology loses) or some idiot is trying to use science to asnwer a theological one (science loses). Making a table that compares them using made up numbers for no useful purpose is irrational compulsive behaviour.
Note the pragmatism and potential utility of my FSK approach in comparing the scientific with theological FSK-ed objectivity.

Are you aware,
theists are claiming their God exists as 'real' to the extent that their God sends its son to communicate with humans or send his message through chosen prophets.
It is on this basis of their real God that certain religion get their sanctions to kill non-believers, where many a times was on a genocidal basis, and potentially will probably exterminate the human species in the future.

To counter and to bring the theists to their senses, we have to demonstrate their God cannot be really real in contrast [comparison] to scientific FSK facts as the most realistic.

The above objective basis of comparison will enable [in the future] for theists their belief in God is grounded on an illusion, thus the possibility of weaning the majority of theists off theism [in the future, not possible now] and eliminating the potential of extinction of the human species by certain theists via their theistic doctrines.

Your current ideology is hindering progress.
That's ridiculous. There is no rational basis to build a useless list of all the different fields of inquiry with a random number indicating meaningless gibberish about how they compare to science. The entire project is obsessive compulsive nonsense.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:25 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:05 am
There's no reason to compare theology to science except in those cases where theology is trying to answer a scientific question (theology loses) or some idiot is trying to use science to asnwer a theological one (science loses). Making a table that compares them using made up numbers for no useful purpose is irrational compulsive behaviour.
Note the pragmatism and potential utility of my FSK approach in comparing the scientific with theological FSK-ed objectivity.

Are you aware,
theists are claiming their God exists as 'real' to the extent that their God sends its son to communicate with humans or send his message through chosen prophets.
It is on this basis of their real God that certain religion get their sanctions to kill non-believers, where many a times was on a genocidal basis, and potentially will probably exterminate the human species in the future.

To counter and to bring the theists to their senses, we have to demonstrate their God cannot be really real in contrast [comparison] to scientific FSK facts as the most realistic.

The above objective basis of comparison will enable [in the future] for theists their belief in God is grounded on an illusion, thus the possibility of weaning the majority of theists off theism [in the future, not possible now] and eliminating the potential of extinction of the human species by certain theists via their theistic doctrines.

Your current ideology is hindering progress.
That's ridiculous. There is no rational basis to build a useless list of all the different fields of inquiry with a random number indicating meaningless gibberish about how they compare to science. The entire project is obsessive compulsive nonsense.
Nah, you are ignorance of the necessity of completeness control within philosophy so that there is no way, e.g. theology, to eel itself out of the picture when cornered which is typically used by theists in the defense of their theistic claims.

Here is ChatGpt [with reference to Completeness Control];
Question wrote:What is the concept of Completeness Control within Philosophy?
Please give examples where this is done within other areas of philosophy and provide references where applicable.
ChatGPT
The concept of completeness control in philosophy refers to a commitment to thoroughly exploring and addressing all relevant aspects or critical issues within a given philosophical framework or argument. Philosophers who engage in completeness control aim to leave no significant stones unturned, considering various dimensions of a problem or theory to ensure a comprehensive analysis.

Immanuel Kant is known for his meticulous approach to completeness in his philosophical system. In his "Critique of Pure Reason," for instance, Kant endeavors to provide a comprehensive account of the nature of human knowledge, exploring both the limits and possibilities of human cognition. He takes great care to address various facets of epistemology and metaphysics, covering topics such as the nature of space and time, the categories of the understanding, and the principles of empirical knowledge.

Another example of completeness control can be found in G.W.F. Hegel's dialectical method. Hegel sought to develop a systematic and comprehensive philosophical approach in his major work, "The Phenomenology of Spirit" and "The Science of Logic." He aimed to consider the entirety of human experience and thought, progressing through various stages of development to reach a comprehensive understanding of reality.

In contemporary philosophy, the work of analytic philosophers like Ludwig Wittgenstein can also be seen as exhibiting a form of completeness control. Wittgenstein, in his later work "Philosophical Investigations," meticulously explores language and meaning, considering a wide range of linguistic phenomena and providing detailed examinations of language games and forms of life.

References:
Kant, I. (1781/1787). "Critique of Pure Reason."
Hegel, G.W.F. (1807). "The Phenomenology of Spirit."
Wittgenstein, L. (1953). "Philosophical Investigations."

These examples demonstrate the importance some philosophers place on completeness control, ensuring that their philosophical analyses are as exhaustive and comprehensive as possible.
Keep in mind that different philosophical traditions and individual philosophers may approach completeness control in various ways, and the examples provided represent only a few instances within the vast landscape of philosophical inquiry.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:04 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:25 am
Note the pragmatism and potential utility of my FSK approach in comparing the scientific with theological FSK-ed objectivity.

Are you aware,
theists are claiming their God exists as 'real' to the extent that their God sends its son to communicate with humans or send his message through chosen prophets.
It is on this basis of their real God that certain religion get their sanctions to kill non-believers, where many a times was on a genocidal basis, and potentially will probably exterminate the human species in the future.

To counter and to bring the theists to their senses, we have to demonstrate their God cannot be really real in contrast [comparison] to scientific FSK facts as the most realistic.

The above objective basis of comparison will enable [in the future] for theists their belief in God is grounded on an illusion, thus the possibility of weaning the majority of theists off theism [in the future, not possible now] and eliminating the potential of extinction of the human species by certain theists via their theistic doctrines.

Your current ideology is hindering progress.
That's ridiculous. There is no rational basis to build a useless list of all the different fields of inquiry with a random number indicating meaningless gibberish about how they compare to science. The entire project is obsessive compulsive nonsense.
Nah, you are ignorance of the necessity of completeness control within philosophy so that there is no way, e.g. theology, to eel itself out of the picture when cornered which is typically used by theists in the defense of their theistic claims.
1. There is no such necessity.
2. Your work is a mishmash of bullshit that exhibits no such completeness and doesn't even address the differnce of type between measurement and fabrication of groundless numerals.
3. You will never corner anyone with your fraudulent and pointless scheme.
Atla
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Re: Quantitative vs Qualitative

Post by Atla »

Maybe theology could greatly benefit from an anti-realist, constructivist argument system with made-up numbers. Actually, that sounds like a really good approach to show theological claims true..

Humanity may yet celebrate VA one day as the man who brought back God..
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