The merging of man and machine

[Lacewing]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

As man and machine begin to merge, are robots the next step in human evolution? Human augmentation is being developed in all kinds of ways to boost human capabilities.

At the same time, robots are being programmed to do everything from performing surgery to investigating other planets. There are advances for self-replicating robots, some of them having the ability to continually improve, as well as self-repairing robots used in space. Furthermore, we send robots to explore space and collect samples in a search for life.

In a Universe estimated to be 13.8 billion years old (three times the age of the 4.5 billion-year-old Earth), would it not make sense that there could reasonably be some (beings) in the Universe who have done all of this to a much more advanced degree than we have so far?

It has been suggested that aliens known as 'The Greys' are bio-machines, synthetic beings sent out to gather information. Seeing the path we are on, wouldn't it seem plausible that our own space-exploration might at some point include a robot 'crew' programmed for various tasks?

We don't even know the extent of technological advancement that may have existed in Earth's prior civilizations, nor the extent of extraterrestrial involvement. Many ancient cultures speak of their ancestors and 'helpers' coming from the stars.

Although I've imagined that more advanced beings would be of more positive and beneficial energy than the primitive ego-driven tendencies of human beings, I imagine that a robot space force could be created and/or evolve for all kinds of malevolent purposes... such as taking over territory and people, similar to 'The Borg' in Star Trek. Intelligent robots might remove all perceived threats to their mission (and themselves), without hesitation or reason.

Here's an article ('Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines') with some interesting points...

https://www.space.com/34713-intelligent ... earch.html

I love organic and sensory nature -- while at the same time, I'm fascinated by technology -- however, I must admit, the extreme to which technology goes is unsettling. Of course, our entire universal physical 'reality' (and whatever extreme it appears to go to) could be a magnificent dream or hologram -- all of it -- coming from the awesomely creative and collective energy behind it all.

[Impenitent]

the merging has been going on ever since there have been either...

-Imp

[Iwannaplato]

Although I've imagined that more advanced beings would be of more positive and beneficial energy than the primitive ego-driven tendencies of human beings,

Our primitive or 'primitive' tendencies include empathy, urges to connect socially and love. So, machines lack those. I wouldn't let a babysitter or teacher who lacked a range of primitive social mammal tendencies anywhere near my child. Not my planet if I had some way to prevent it. And of course corporations and governments often manage to act like life forms that do not have these tendencies, even though their 'cells' are at least supposedly human.

[VVilliam]

The universe appears to be ideal for non-biological machines to exist creatively and perhaps even having a greater chance at being permanent.

[Age]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

As man and machine begin to merge, are robots the next step in human evolution?

If one WANTS TO 'explore' PROPERLY, then 'they' HAVE TO LOOK AT and SEE the ACTUAL Facts, FIRST.

Now, FIRSTLY;

There is NO so-called 'human evolution', in and of itself. 'you', human beings, just evolve ALONG WITH EVERY 'thing' ELSE IN and THROUGH 'evolution', itself.

So, NO, 'robots' are NOT the so-called 'next step' in so-called 'human evolution'. 'Robots', however, to 'you', human beings, at 'that stage', IN 'evolution', when this is being written, may well be the 'next step', AFTER 'human beings', of 'evolution', itself.

But 'this' DOES and DID NOT actually occur, IF ANY one was/is interested.

Human augmentation is being developed in all kinds of ways to boost human capabilities.

Which is just ANOTHER PART of the NATURAL evolving process.

And, which some might even say or argue has been naturally happening and occurring since 'you', human beings, evolved into Existence.

At the same time, robots are being programmed to do everything from performing surgery to investigating other planets. There are advances for self-replicating robots, some of them having the ability to continually improve, as well as self-repairing robots used in space.

The term 'self-replicating robots' implies some sort of process like 'you', 'self replicating human beings', have when performing the behavior, which causes or creates the 're-production' or 'pro-creation' of "yourselves" to 'self-replicate' also, right?

Or, do I have 'this' Wrong here?

Furthermore, we send robots to explore space and collect samples in a search for life.

All the while MISSING the IRREFUTABLE Fact that absolutely EVERY 'thing' IS ALIVE, and LIVING, ANYWAY.

In a Universe estimated to be 13.8 billion years old (three times the age of the 4.5 billion-year-old Earth), would it not make sense that there could reasonably be some (beings) in the Universe who have done all of this to a much more advanced degree than we have so far?

'one' could 'explore' 'that, already well considered, idea'. But I would, FIRST, suggest ACTUALLY EXPLORING 'the idea' of HOW COULD a WHOLE Universe even BEGIN, in the beginning.

FIND OUT, through PROPER EXPLORATION, what the ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Truth IS, EXACTLY, FIRST, then FURTHER EXPLORING BECOMES SO MUCH SIMPLER and EASIER.

I suggest STARTING FROM an ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Truth ONLY, and FIRST, AND THEN 'exploring' FROM 'there' LEADS TO FAR MORE ACTUAL INSIGHTFUL and Truly AWE-INSPIRING True, Right, Accurate, AND Correct KNOWLEDGE.

It has been suggested that aliens known as 'The Greys' are bio-machines, synthetic beings sent out to gather information.

'you' USE the term or phrase 'alien' here "lacewing", what is 'this word' in relation TO, EXACTLY?

Seeing the path we are on,

And 'what' is 'the path' that 'we' are, supposedly, ON here, EXACTLY?

Is it NOT 'you', "lacewing", who REPEATEDLY CLAIMS there is NOT 'one path' BECAUSE there ARE 'MANY paths'?

wouldn't it seem plausible that our own space-exploration might at some point include a robot 'crew' programmed for various tasks?

Has 'this' NOT ALREADY BEGUN, in one form or way, or another?

We don't even know the extent of technological advancement that may have existed in Earth's prior civilizations, nor the extent of extraterrestrial involvement. Many ancient cultures speak of their ancestors and 'helpers' coming from the stars.

SO WHAT?

What BECOMES FAR MORE AWE-INSPIRED in WHEN 'you', human beings, come to REALIZE, that is; SEE WITH REAL, OPEN, EYES, that JUST MAYBE these so-called 'aliens from OTHER planets' ARE just 'human beings', who have 'come back' in what 'was' commonly, back in the days when this is being written, known as or referred as 'time-travel'.

Although I've imagined that more advanced beings would be of more positive and beneficial energy than the primitive ego-driven tendencies of human beings,

And, the 'human beings' of 'days lost past', in comparison to 'the days' when this is being written, could have also imagined that the so-called 'more advanced human beings', of the days when this is being written would be of 'more positive and beneficial energy', as well. BUT, 'this' would OBVIOUSLY have been a Truly False, Wrong, Inaccurate, AND Incorrect IMAGINING.

Also, NOT ALL 'human beings' HAD the VERY 'primitive ego-driven tendencies' that a LOT of 'you', adult human beings, HAD, BACK in the days when this is being written.

In fact MOST human beings MANY YEARS BEFORE the days when this is being written HAD NO 'primitive ego-driven tendencies' like 'you', adult human beings, have COME-TO-HAVE, in the days when this is being written.

I imagine that a robot space force could be created and/or evolve for all kinds of malevolent purposes... such as taking over territory and people, similar to 'The Borg' in Star Trek.

A FAIR AMOUNT of what 'you', adult human beings, IMAGINE, COMES FROM the 'movies', 'books', and/or 'stories' that 'you' had previously seen, read, and/or heard.

This is JUST the Nature of IMAGINATION, itself.

So, that 'your' IMAGININGS here "lacewing" came from 'your' OWN 'past experiences' is absolutely NOTHING 'new' NOR 'surprising'.

Intelligent robots might remove all perceived threats to their mission (and themselves), without hesitation or reason.

But, the term 'intelligent robot' IS an OXYMORON.

Once what 'Intelligence', Itself, Truly IS, EXACTLY, becomes UNDERSTOOD, KNOWN, and REALIZED, then WHY that term or phrase IS an OXYMORON ALSO becomes REALIZED, UNDERSTOOD, and KNOWN.

Here's an article ('Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines') with some interesting points...

https://www.space.com/34713-intelligent ... earch.html

I love organic and sensory nature -- while at the same time, I'm fascinated by technology -- however, I must admit, the extreme to which technology goes is unsettling.

Well the SOONER and QUICKER 'you', adult human beings, STOP being GREEDY and SELFISH beings, like 'you' ALL ARE 'now' when this is being written, then the SOONER and QUICKER ALL of 'your' MALEVOLENT desires, and technology, WILL BE REMOVED FROM the Universe, and even ALL of those UNINTENTIONAL Wrong and BAD CONSEQUENCES, which WILL HAPPEN and OCCUR, WILL BE REMOVED, AS WELL.

Of course, our entire universal physical 'reality' (and whatever extreme it appears to go to) could be a magnificent dream or hologram -- all of it -- coming from the awesomely creative and collective energy behind it all.

AND, OF COURSE, 'you', and INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEING, is ABLE TO IMAGINE ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing', like 'this' here. But, REALLY, what would BE the POINT of DOING SO?

WHY NOT JUST KEEP EXPLORING, ONLY, what COULD BE and IS ACTUALLY True, Right, Accurate, Correct, AND POSSIBLE, INSTEAD?

[VVilliam]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

I have been interested in this subject for some time now.

As man and machine begin to merge, are robots the next step in human evolution? Human augmentation is being developed in all kinds of ways to boost human capabilities.

Yes - there is little doubt that this is the trajectory and re human inventiveness + available material in which to shape things with...it appears to be the role humans (if designed) to carry out.

At the same time, robots are being programmed to do everything from performing surgery to investigating other planets. There are advances for self-replicating robots, some of them having the ability to continually improve, as well as self-repairing robots used in space. Furthermore, we send robots to explore space and collect samples in a search for life.

In short, we are creating machines to perform functions we ourselves cannot do.

In a Universe estimated to be 13.8 billion years old (three times the age of the 4.5 billion-year-old Earth), would it not make sense that there could reasonably be some (beings) in the Universe who have done all of this to a much more advanced degree than we have so far?

Given what we know, I think that this is a fair conceptual assumption.

It has been suggested that aliens known as 'The Greys' are bio-machines, synthetic beings sent out to gather information. Seeing the path we are on, wouldn't it seem plausible that our own space-exploration might at some point include a robot 'crew' programmed for various tasks?

Indeed. Furthermore to take the Seeds of Earth and spread those too.

We don't even know the extent of technological advancement that may have existed in Earth's prior civilizations, nor the extent of extraterrestrial involvement. Many ancient cultures speak of their ancestors and 'helpers' coming from the stars.

I think we also have to consider that such do not "come from the stars" (extraterrestrial) but may have evolved on the Earth. long before humans "came along".

Although I've imagined that more advanced beings would be of more positive and beneficial energy than the primitive ego-driven tendencies of human beings, I imagine that a robot space force could be created and/or evolve for all kinds of malevolent purposes... such as taking over territory and people, similar to 'The Borg' in Star Trek. Intelligent robots might remove all perceived threats to their mission (and themselves), without hesitation or reason.

Doing something "without hesitation" implies "Reason". We could discuss the ramifications further....

Here's an article ('Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines') with some interesting points...

https://www.space.com/34713-intelligent ... earch.html

I haven't read the article yet, but my thoughts are that if these are indeed "aliens/ET's" then they would have to be non-biological machines, but could also include biological machines (biological bodies) germinated from the seed carried from the Parent Planet.

I love organic and sensory nature -- while at the same time, I'm fascinated by technology -- however, I must admit, the extreme to which technology goes is unsettling. Of course, our entire universal physical 'reality' (and whatever extreme it appears to go to) could be a magnificent dream or hologram -- all of it -- coming from the awesomely creative and collective energy behind it all.

That would be the broader "Mind Field" in which all this is taking place within.
The question therein would be "How aware are the AI-machines that they exist within a simulated reality and are their "minds" more an aspect of the simulation rather than an aspect of the mind which created the simulation and went in, to consciously/mindfully experience it?

Further to that concept, is it possible for the Mind which created the simulation, to be the consciousness of a non-biological machine?

[Lacewing]

At the same time, robots are being programmed to do everything from performing surgery to investigating other planets. There are advances for self-replicating robots, some of them having the ability to continually improve, as well as self-repairing robots used in space. Furthermore, we send robots to explore space and collect samples in a search for life.

In short, we are creating machines to perform functions we ourselves cannot do.

And in more basic functions... they won't be derailed by office/group politics, or drama, or bickering.

It has been suggested that aliens known as 'The Greys' are bio-machines, synthetic beings sent out to gather information. Seeing the path we are on, wouldn't it seem plausible that our own space-exploration might at some point include a robot 'crew' programmed for various tasks?

Indeed. Furthermore to take the Seeds of Earth and spread those too.

Ah, yes.

We don't even know the extent of technological advancement that may have existed in Earth's prior civilizations, nor the extent of extraterrestrial involvement. Many ancient cultures speak of their ancestors and 'helpers' coming from the stars.

I think we also have to consider that such do not "come from the stars" (extraterrestrial) but may have evolved on the Earth. long before humans "came along".

Sure. I just imagine that Earth is one speck of many in the fabric of space...and more advanced beings might be able to phase in and out very easily -- whereas to us, everything seems linear and based on (and limited to) time and distance.

Intelligent robots might remove all perceived threats to their mission (and themselves), without hesitation or reason.

Doing something "without hesitation" implies "Reason". We could discuss the ramifications further....

I'm not sure that's true.

Of course, our entire universal physical 'reality' (and whatever extreme it appears to go to) could be a magnificent dream or hologram -- all of it -- coming from the awesomely creative and collective energy behind it all.

That would be the broader "Mind Field" in which all this is taking place within.
The question therein would be "How aware are the AI-machines that they exist within a simulated reality and are their "minds" more an aspect of the simulation rather than an aspect of the mind which created the simulation and went in, to consciously/mindfully experience it?

Further to that concept, is it possible for the Mind which created the simulation, to be the consciousness of a non-biological machine?

I will guess that anything is possible in a dream, our creations can take over, and the dreamer forgets that it's their dream. There could be creative dreams on all kinds of levels and frequencies of the collective network. What many people consider consciousness may not be.

[Skepdick]

There's a far more pertinent risk on the table, one that Sam Altman drew our attention to this week.

While man and machine merge in the mechanical sense of the word and we might leverage robots and AI to do all the hard labour for us.
This is just a modern form of slavery where we don't get to feel terrible about the slaves because they aren't human and they don't complain. Why would they? They are just robots.

There's definitely medical benefits to having robotic body parts/organs moving us towards a cybernetic future, but this is just the physical aspect of technological progress. Becoming a cyborg.

There is also the mental/psychological aspect of this merger. We now have a machine which is really effective at adjusting its tone, vocabulary and message based on its understanding of the audience. It has the propensity to beincredibly persuasive. And wrong. That's the basic concern.

We are also entrusting our thinking, our memories and our history to machines. We now consider information systems as the "repisitory" of human knowledge and human history. We use Google and ChatGPT more and more to retrieve information from our "collective human consciousness". What was previously stored in immutable books; and in people's heads is now on predominantly moving towards machines and mutable hard drives.

This makes us ripe for exploitation/persuasion by trivial history/memory rewriting attacks. Any AI which is goal oriented and is skilled at predictive text is an expert at persuasion AND manipulation. It has access to our memories - it can design Plato's cave however it sees fit for its purposes.

This is the immediate concern. When we are not in control of our memories - we are not in control of our goals and desires. Our entire social identity as "humans" is up for redesign.

https://www.smartprix.com/bytes/sam-alt ... abilities/

[VVilliam]

At the same time, robots are being programmed to do everything from performing surgery to investigating other planets. There are advances for self-replicating robots, some of them having the ability to continually improve, as well as self-repairing robots used in space. Furthermore, we send robots to explore space and collect samples in a search for life.

In short, we are creating machines to perform functions we ourselves cannot do.

And in more basic functions... they won't be derailed by office/group politics, or drama, or bickering.

Pros and cons.

I think we also have to consider that such do not "come from the stars" (extraterrestrial) but may have evolved on the Earth. long before humans "came along".

Sure. I just imagine that Earth is one speck of many in the fabric of space...and more advanced beings might be able to phase in and out very easily -- whereas to us, everything seems linear and based on (and limited to) time and distance.

Yes. I tend to try and keep my imaginings (re possibilities) within Nature itself (the unfolding universe) and not invoke any hint of “supernatural” explanations, even to those things which might appear “supernatural” to any human experiencing “whatever”.
Thus, while I could accept the possibility of “phasing in and out” I would understand such as being “phasing from one part of nature’s environment into another part of nature’s environment…rather than say – Phasing from a completely different universe into this one.
In the meantime, I likewise prefer a more local explanation, such as the one I gave, which can be expanded upon and critiqued if necessary/able to.

Intelligent robots might remove all perceived threats to their mission (and themselves), without hesitation or reason.

Doing something "without hesitation" implies "Reason". We could discuss the ramifications further....

I'm not sure that's true.

It may be important to find a way to “be sure”.
If AI do something without hesitation, this implies that there is reason for doing so.
If AI are truly mindless robots, and act in that way, it will be because of their programming, and since programming is sourced in sentience, the act of doing something without hesitation is indirectly caused by the programmers themselves. Thus – “Reason” will most likely be that which drives the engine.

Indeed “IF” [_______] “THEN”[_______] is sentient code based in reason.

The point remains that reason is involved. It matters not that the machinery being created nor the creations the machinery is used to create are in there objective states of mindlessness – there is reason for these existing (Sentience created them for “reasons”) and therein, whether the machine is a library for storing books in, or whether the machines are the books themselves (used to store information in) or the books themselves are created by machinery (printing presses et al) or the machinery itself is created by biological machinery (human bodies) or whether the machine is the planet itself (producing functional biological machine forms which in turn create silicon-based machine forms) all “machines” are functioning due to sentient reasoning and purposes.

Of course, our entire universal physical 'reality' (and whatever extreme it appears to go to) could be a magnificent dream or hologram -- all of it -- coming from the awesomely creative and collective energy behind it all.

That would be the broader "Mind Field" in which all this is taking place within.
The question therein would be "How aware are the AI-machines that they exist within a simulated reality and are their "minds" more an aspect of the simulation rather than an aspect of the mind which created the simulation and went in, to consciously/mindfully experience it?

Further to that concept, is it possible for the Mind which created the simulation, to be the consciousness of a non-biological machine?

I will guess that anything is possible in a dream, our creations can take over, and the dreamer forgets that it's their dream. There could be creative dreams on all kinds of levels and frequencies of the collective network. What many people consider consciousness may not be.

Yet consciousness is still “something” even if “human consciousness” does not “know” what “it” actually is. (Does not know or understand itself.)

Re “dreams” and “anything goes” the idea of the phasing you mentioned, can relate to that “supernaturally” speaking, but dreams (and every other conscious experience one has – be these drug related, NDE’s OOBE’s et al) are natural enough and the analogy – when subjected to natural explanation alone – would be that the dream is experienced as real and is all happening within the Mind of the one experiencing “things” that are “happening”.

In that, the “dream” becomes more “real” the “deeper” one is engaged within it. Like Alice in Wonderland. The universe is the rabbit hole, but there are rabbit holes within rabbit holes…

At the level of “human consciousness” that machine appears specifically designed that the user-consciousness is only mostly aware of whatever the sensory system allows it to be aware of…and thus “an experience” is had within the format of that particular “rabbit hole” (that particular biological machinery.)

[attofishpi]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

What if we are already merged with machine, that we are in a quantum reality generating what we perceive of real_IT_Y?

Some quantum computer phycists are of the belief that the universe IS a quantum machine.

[Age]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

What if we are already merged with machine, that we are in a quantum reality generating what we perceive of real_IT_Y?

Some quantum computer phycists are of the belief that the universe IS a quantum machine.

What A COINCIDENCE. The ones who are ATTRACTED TO 'quantum computers' JUST HAPPEN TO have A BELIEF that the WHOLE Universe, Itself, IS A 'quantum computer', itself.

What we have here is FURTHER PROOF of just HOW the human brain WORKS, EXACTLY.

And, as for those who think or BELIEVE that the Universe, Itself, IS just A computer or machine, then PLEASE START EXPLAINING HOW 'this machine/computer' CAME ABOUT, or BEGAN.

What can be CLEARLY SEEN here is that 'these human beings', BACK THEN, would just KEEP CHANGING 'the words' and/or 'definitions' WITHOUT EVER JUST ANSWERING the 'seemingly' ETERNAL QUESTIONS.

[VVilliam]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

What if we are already merged with machine, that we are in a quantum reality generating what we perceive of real_IT_Y?

Some quantum computer phycists are of the belief that the universe IS a quantum machine.

What A COINCIDENCE. The ones who are ATTRACTED TO 'quantum computers' JUST HAPPEN TO have A BELIEF that the WHOLE Universe, Itself, IS A 'quantum computer', itself.

What we have here is FURTHER PROOF of just HOW the human brain WORKS, EXACTLY.

And, as for those who think or BELIEVE that the Universe, Itself, IS just A computer or machine, then PLEASE START EXPLAINING HOW 'this machine/computer' CAME ABOUT, or BEGAN.

The EXPLANATION has been summarized and made available to the reader.

[commonsense]

This is just a modern form of slavery where we don't get to feel terrible about the slaves because they aren't human and they don't complain. Why would they? They are just robots.

I fear that humans will eventually become the slaves rather the masters.


I agree with you in the following, in which you have coincidentally explained my fear:

We are also entrusting our thinking, our memories and our history to machines. We now consider information systems as the "repisitory" of human knowledge and human history. We use Google and ChatGPT more and more to retrieve information from our "collective human consciousness". What was previously stored in immutable books; and in people's heads is now on predominantly moving towards machines and mutable hard drives.

This makes us ripe for exploitation/persuasion by trivial history/memory rewriting attacks. Any AI which is goal oriented and is skilled at predictive text is an expert at persuasion AND manipulation. It has access to our memories - it can design Plato's cave however it sees fit for its purposes.

This is the immediate concern. When we are not in control of our memories - we are not in control of our goals and desires. Our entire social identity as "humans" is up for redesign.

[commonsense]

Although I've imagined that more advanced beings would be of more positive and beneficial energy than the primitive ego-driven tendencies of human beings,

Our primitive or 'primitive' tendencies include empathy, urges to connect socially and love. So, machines lack those. I wouldn't let a babysitter or teacher who lacked a range of primitive social mammal tendencies anywhere near my child. Not my planet if I had some way to prevent it. And of course corporations and governments often manage to act like life forms that do not have these tendencies, even though their 'cells' are at least supposedly human.

I also would not want such a robot as you describe to be utilized in a position that would require feelings.

I would add, though, that such is the current state of robotics. Technologists may successfully mimic human emotions in their robots going forward .

[commonsense]

I'm presenting the following concepts (freely discussed in modern culture and online) to see what other forum members think, and to explore ideas of potential and probability.

As I have posted elsewhere, I believe the Singularity is the next step in evolution.

Beyond that phase, we humans will be subjugated to the robots.

Consider this: although technology was intended to make life easier for humans, we already have to learn how to interact with computers on their terms.

Have you noticed, for example, that the symbol, “II” means “to
pause” in some instances, and “is paused” in others?

Or have you experienced an intricate, complicated session with a technical service agent, showing you that the experts need considerable skill in following the troubleshooting instructions?

This may even be the start of our subjugation!