Wonkers and Israel

[Walker]

Video footage of Hamas shooting Israelis' pet dogs. That should make the resident wonker psychopaths sit up and take notice. Children?...pfffttt. But when it comes to dogs...

When it comes to babies ...

Poisoned Ivy: Harvard students will be blacklisted by Wall Street after joining 31 organizations that blamed Israel for the Palestine war

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ckman.html


“Harvard students who blamed Israel for the massacre of its citizens by Hamas had their own future thrown into doubt last night as a host of blue chip CEOs declared them unemployable.”

“The CEO of Pershing Square Capital Management said he has been approached by ‘a number of CEOs’, adding: ‘One should not be able to hide behind a corporate shield when issuing statements supporting the actions of terrorists, who, we now learn, have beheaded babies, among other inconceivably despicable acts.’”

[Alexis Jacobi]

While I do not say that every aspect of this following definition is totally accurate, it is certainly substantially accurate.

What do you think Walker? What do you think of a) Neoconservatism and b) what do you think of this definition of it?

The recent shift in narratives in which the Republicans (some anyway) now become anti-war and US Neoconservative narrative-questioning, if not opposing, and the Democrats morph into war-mongers -- what do you make of it?

[Janoah]

Jews are indigenous to Israel

vegetariantaxidermy, thank you for your position!
In general, the challenges facing Israel are, of course, more interesting than real estate.
In my opinion, a deep worldview, philosophical shift is required, not only for Israel, but also for civilization as a whole. Starting with the answer to what truth is.
This is vital for the whole world, but Israel is at the forefront.
The last time this happened was when the Jewish Christian sect turned the consciousness of the whole world upside down.
But it didn't give the true answer to the question of what truth is, and therefore things are still there.
But from a practical point of view, yes, it is important to stop hiding from children and adults that Jews are the indigenous people in Judea, the Al-Aqsa Mosque stands on the Temple Mount, on which the famous Jewish temple stood.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Here, for the sake of conversation (insofar as bickering, mad-minded, over-emotional children can think about and discuss anything at all) is the Harvard student's statement that is being intensely criticized (and the students singled out for retribution). Wait! I thought the Right felt that the Universities were places for *open debate*!

I for one am calling that these *students* (Hamas operatives) be stripped of their citizenship.They wrote:

"[Saturday's] events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison," the statement reads. "Israeli officials promise to 'open the gates of hell' and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel's violence.

"The apartheid regime is the only one to blame," the statement continues. "Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden. Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians."

Why in the Name of God would anyone oppose opening the Gates of Hell to these inhuman savages?!?

As Veggie might say What is wrong with people?!?

[Alexis Jacobi]

In my opinion, a deep worldview, philosophical shift is required, not only for Israel, but also for civilization as a whole. Starting with the answer to what truth is.

This is great. How will you set us on this noble road? Can you outline the philosophical shifts?

This is vital for the whole world, but Israel is at the forefront.

Why is that, or how is that? In what exactly is Israel at the forefront?

The last time this happened was when the Jewish Christian sect turned the consciousness of the whole world upside down.

If they turned it upside-down, can you explain what right-side-up is or will be?

But from a practical point of view, yes, it is important to stop hiding from children and adults that Jews are the indigenous people in Judea, the Al-Aqsa Mosque stands on the Temple Mount, on which the famous Jewish temple stood.

Wait, it is described in the Bible itself that the Hebrews were gifted the land, but in *truth* isn't it that the indigenous people of Caanan were displaced?

My argument is not nor would it ever be that Jews are not deeply associated with Judea, but rather that the narrative of 'return' and 'conquest', and the action that resulted from it, determine everything that goes on now in that region.

Wasn't it Brother Immanuel who asked you direct question: Were the Hebrews selected by God and were they, or were they not, bequeathed Israel by the very Author of all Creation?

Can you answer -- starting with the answer to what truth is, of course.

Jewish Virtual Library:

When the Hebrews arrive at Canaan, the land promised to them millenia earlier when God told Abraham at Shechem that the land would belong to his descendants, they they begin the long, painful, and disappointing process of setting the land. There were, after all, people already living there. These people, the Canaanites, were a Semitic people speaking a language remarkably close to Hebrew. They were farmers, some were nomads, but they were also civilized. They used the great Mesopotamian cities as their model and had built modest imitations of them. They had also learned military technology and tactics from the Mesopotamians, as well as law. So the Hebrews, uncivilized, tribal, and nomadic, found themselves facing a formidable enemy. Even the accounts of this period in the Hebrew bible, the books of Joshua and Judges paint a pretty dreary picture of the occupation.

[Walker]

What do you think Walker?

I'm a thinkin' ...

Since they can’t be good neighbors, why don’t the Israel-hating and American-hating denizens of Gaza move to a like-minded neighborhood, as suggested?

[Alexis Jacobi]

What do you think Walker?

I'm a thinkin' ...

Since they can’t be good neighbors, why don’t the Israel-hating and American-hating denizens of Gaza move to a like-minded neighborhood, as suggested?

I understand that you desire not to be serious. That is your choice. As long as you stick to such a method, your contributions will be as inane as those you oppose here.

[Walker]

What do you think Walker?

I'm a thinkin' ...

Since they can’t be good neighbors, why don’t the Israel-hating and American-hating denizens of Gaza move to a like-minded neighborhood, as suggested?

I understand that you desire not to be serious. That is your choice. As long as you stick to such a method, your contributions will be as inane as those you oppose here.

Actually, I think when you begin considering questions like this, you get to the root of the situation quicker than studying all the leaves in the tree.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Actually, I think when you begin considering questions like this, you get to the root of the situation quicker than studying all the leaves in the tree.

Not the root of the situation, since that stems from the Zionist conquest, but rather your view of what the solution is: to drive the people from the land. Therefore, what you are proposing, and the perspective you are aligned with -- please confirm for me -- is a continuation of the original conquest and displacement.

If this is so, I propose that your view is deeply tied to the maintenance of the problem, and it is good therefore that it is out in the open as such.

[Walker]

Actually, I think when you begin considering questions like this, you get to the root of the situation quicker than studying all the leaves in the tree.

Not the root of the situation, since that stems from the Zionist conquest, but rather your view of what the solution is: to drive the people from the land. Therefore, what you are proposing, and the perspective you are aligned with -- please confirm for me -- is a continuation of the original conquest and displacement.

If this is so, I propose that your view is deeply tied to the maintenance of the problem, and it is good therefore that it is out in the open as such.

I reject your proposal, as it is grounded in your understanding deficiency, which is what has been exposed.

[Walker]

''For those who support BLM, DEI & other progressive woke causes in which even microaggression words are violence for which safe spaces are needed, why is it acceptable for Hamas to rape women, cut off the heads of babies & murder masses of people? Is it because...they're Jewish?''

Michael Shermer

BLM, the Democrat Party, and Palestinian terrorists have at least one thing in common. They hate America.

Come to think of it, don't you hate America?

All have been conditioned to hate via sources that are considered authoritative.

[Peter Kropotkin]

''For those who support BLM, DEI & other progressive woke causes in which even microaggression words are violence for which safe spaces are needed, why is it acceptable for Hamas to rape women, cut off the heads of babies & murder masses of people? Is it because...they're Jewish?''

Michael Shermer

BLM, the Democrat Party, and Palestinian terrorists have at least one thing in common. They hate America.

Come to think of it, don't you hate America?

K: and we come to the difference between philosophy and polemics...
the above statement, "BLM, the Democratic party and the Palestinian terrorists
have at least one thing in common, they hate America"

that isn't philosophy, that is polemics... attempting to convert others
to your point of view... what would a philosophical statement be?

what is the actual view of America? what do Americans actually believe in?
what aspect of America is the left supposed to hate?

you claim that democrats hate America... that is clearly not true...
for it is a blanket statement that actually tells us nothing.. instead of
approaching every question as a chance for polemics, how about
an approach to every question from a philosophical standpoint?

Kropotkin

[Walker]

Does the philosophical approach allow for pictures of atrocities against Israel, a country that loves America?

"you claim that democrats hate America... that is clearly not true..."

What philosophical proof do you require to be persuaded?

[Walker]

to drive the people from the land.

I suggested they should take a boat, voluntarily, to the weathy, like-minded Israel and American hating countries that are cash-rich and can help them get on their feet again. As with aeroplanes, you don't drive boats. So let's put a stop to that rumour right now, along with whatever labels you are trying to pigeon-hole up in that noggin.

Now, why is this not feasible?

[Alexis Jacobi]

From where I sit I find Walker's views and position to be illustrative of conceptual, philosophical, political and ideological confusion. In fact, and though Walker does not seem to be either Christian or religious, the position he holds is comparable to that of some Christian Zionists.

That is (quoting from the link):

pastor-greg-locke-urges-israel-to-turn-gaza-into-a-parking-lot-destroy-the-dome-of-the-rock-and-rebuild-the-third-temple-in-order-to-hasten-the-second-coming-of-jesus

It is these narratives from which we must disentangle ourselves. But it is just as I say: make the effort to do this, and make the effort to see through (puncture) and disassociate oneself from the biblical narrative driving them, and *they* will come after you.

By *they* I do not only mean only the likes of Ben Shapiro intoning Tehillim in his fingernails-on-chalkboard voice, but in fact an entire establishment which has become married to the biblical narratives vis-a-vis Israel and its recent re-founding. Here I reference Christian Zionism and its deep entrenchment within the American state. This is a fact: the hallucination of the fable captures the minds of planners and influences policy choices that are associated with hallucinated morality.

So sure, turn Gaza into a parking lot and that will surely be the trigger that inspires the Messiah to get on with the business of Return. Makes great sense to me!

It's *American Marxists* that have brought us such disasters is it? OK fine enough, make the assertion. But I counter this assertion by saying Should we not examine the American Neoconservatives and what they have done with and to the country. Fair? Or am I well off the mark? Please set me straight.

What is the policy ideology that has driven the foreign policy of the United States over the last 30 years? And how shall we measure their destructive, or their constructive, result?

But let's cut to the chase. Though I personally accord with an anti-Marxist position I think Levin is using his diatribe against American Marxists in an underhanded fashion. His real concern seems to be the Neoconservative establishment and their control of American policy and -- I pose this as a question -- is his ultimate concern actually Israel? Some of his Constitutional interpretations seem to me first-rate. But I admit: I do not trust him.

But what that means is that I do not trust that interpretive perspective. It is not *his* in any case. And I believe that anyone with basic skills of analysis will agree with the viewpoint I am putting forward.