Wonkers and Israel

[attofishpi]

''Why would anyone care about the Holocaust? Millions of people died in WW11 by other means. Yes, they did. But some deaths are disastrous to the families of those who have died. Others are part of something so monstrous, huge, and obscene that to dwell on them is to risk losing one's mind. These are the events that unite and define us as humans, and separate humans from psychopaths.''

Peter Kropotkin and Alexis Jacobi don't understand the point I am making here. Is anyone else as confused as they are? I can explain it further, in simpler terms (because it's just so darned complicated).

I'm with u Veg Kropotkin needs to learn simple English compreshion. The muppet actually thinks what you state means you don't actually care about the deaths of millions of Jews!! idiot.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

''Why would anyone care about the Holocaust? Millions of people died in WW11 by other means. Yes, they did. But some deaths are disastrous to the families of those who have died. Others are part of something so monstrous, huge, and obscene that to dwell on them is to risk losing one's mind. These are the events that unite and define us as humans, and separate humans from psychopaths.''

Peter Kropotkin and Alexis Jacobi don't understand the point I am making here. Is anyone else as confused as they are? I can explain it further, in simpler terms (because it's just so darned complicated).

I'm with u Veg Kropotkin needs to learn simple English compreshion. The muppet actually thinks what you state means you don't actually care about the deaths of millions of Jews!! idiot.

I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. It must be. No one could be that stupid.

[Age]

Just out of curiosity how is an oppressed group of people 'meant to' react and behave?

[Peter Kropotkin]

Why would anyone care about the Holocaust? Millions of people died in WW11 by other means.
Yes, they did. But some deaths are disastrous to the families of those who have died. Others are part of something so monstrous, huge, and obscene that to dwell on them is to risk losing one's mind. These are the events that unite and define us as humans, and separate humans from psychopaths.

K: and yes, ''why would anyone care about the Holocaust?'' nothing happened there...
6 millions Jews dead isn't worth ''vegatar'' outrage... for that is vegetar shtick...
think of it like performance art... ''oh, look at me, I am outraged by''
whatever is this week outrage... and try to get her to actually think about
the outrage.. god forbid.. or even to think about her own response?
oh, may as well ask for the gold in Fort Knox...

all she cares about is the outrage... the actual issue is really unimportant...

Kropotkin

Where's the rest of my post, fuckface? You fucking senile old fuck.

K: and we come to the 1. outrage and 2. insults.. and rinse and repeat..


Kropotkin

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Both normal, human reactions. Alien to you, of course.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

''For those who support BLM, DEI & other progressive woke causes in which even microaggression words are violence for which safe spaces are needed, why is it acceptable for Hamas to rape women, cut off the heads of babies & murder masses of people? Is it because...they're Jewish?''

Michael Shermer

[Age]

''For those who support BLM, DEI & other progressive woke causes in which even microaggression words are violence for which safe spaces are needed, why is it acceptable for Hamas to rape women, cut off the heads of babies & murder masses of people? Is it because...they're Jewish?''

Michael Shermer

WHY is it acceptable for so-called "christians" and peoples from other countries to rape and murder adults and children, on masses, in "non-christian" countries?

In fact WHY do ALL of 'you', adult human beings, find it 'acceptable' to do ALL of the Wrong that 'you' ALL DO, but will NOT even admit TO DOING?

[Walker]

One things for dang sure. It sure can't be the way it was. I've heard of neighbors not getting along, but when there is no grounds for getting along, someone has to move, and it's usually the squatters.

That's just the way things are. Doesn't mean I'm thrilled about it or anything about the situation.

I already told you. Other countries who hate the West can take them in. Sure, they will be inconvenienced, that's too bad. That's life and it beats death. They can learn to code. The oil countries are flush with cash, they can take in lots of folks.

All of this is irrational nonsense (I say that respectfully). You can't be taken seriously. And I don't think you are interested in being serious.

I summed it up into a short sentence: Two state solution is dead. Then I pasted that sentence into Google. Here is what the machine tells us.

Opinion: This is why the two-state solution is dead
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/10/opinions ... index.html

Do you also disagree with the machine?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

There is something very wrong with most of the people on here.

[Walker]

''For those who support BLM, DEI & other progressive woke causes in which even microaggression words are violence for which safe spaces are needed, why is it acceptable for Hamas to rape women, cut off the heads of babies & murder masses of people? Is it because...they're Jewish?''

Michael Shermer

Some of those supporters of those woke causes are Jewish. Go figure.

[Walker]

There is something very wrong with most of the people on here.

The propaganda will ramp up significantly. Are you ready for it?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

There is something very wrong with most of the people on here.

The propaganda will ramp up significantly. Are you ready for it?

And you can shove your self-serving yank politics up your arse too. This is about being an actual human.

[Walker]

There is something very wrong with most of the people on here.

The propaganda will ramp up significantly. Are you ready for it?

And you can shove your self-serving yank politics up your arse too. This is about being an actual human.

Is being an actual human, being mean? No demonstrations of that are required from you, missy, in light of recent events.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Walker wrote: The propaganda will ramp up significantly. Are you ready for it?

In my view, and given (in one instance) Walker's link to an extreme Neoliberal (Mark Levin) who has tangible ties to the Neoliberal faction that has brought the US and the world such mistaken and indeed criminal warring, I am unsure if Walker is aware of the degree to which his opinions, perspectives and views are not, in essence, checked off from an established talking-point list that is Neocon essentially. If this is true then I suggest this set of predicates, this set of highly emotionalized assertions, these manipulating narratives, can and should be examined. What then is the block that shows up that keeps this from happening? Walker has used the term *propaganda*. I have calmly suggested that we all become and remain aware that we are in a 4th and 5th generation war in which what we think, how we see, and what structure of ideas and perceptions we repeat, is the battle-ground. I continue here in that vein...

This recent event in Southern Israel is a military/intelligence Op. I cannot say it was planned and pre-meditated as an Op and with a specific plan behind it -- that will likely be a topic that will be discussed in the future by both concerned, rational people and paranoid irrationalists -- but I can make the suggestion that these events are being used right now within the context of the idea and perception war. You must see this. And you must turn back into yourself and examine how your views have been formed. I say *you must* simply to make an imperative statement. Most of those who write here have no genuine interest in the events of the day. You come here to bicker. That is the function of your presence. You are agents of destruction in an potentially excellent forum because you are, basically, selfish children who have infected the place.

[Harrumph!]

Now, I suggest taking a look at Ben Shapiro as he *lays down the core of the essential narrative*. The recent events (their brutality) are being structured within the classic narrative that has dominated the perception-structure of Occidentals for 70-80 years. What is being established, again in essence, is that opposition to Israel's occupation, and to the Zionist Project (the root cause of the entire problem), is tantamount to taking the side of the Nazis against the Jews. But isn't that essentially what is always said and repeated? If you say "I am an anti-Zionist" it is the same as saying "I am a Nazi". It is, at a core level, that simple. All opposition to the Zionist project -- these events that have been nothing but an endless problem for all concerned -- is equivalent to antisemitism. It is utter black-and-white thinking.

But there is more. And more that must be thought about -- if indeed you are genuinely interested in what is going on in our present (and I doubt this since you carry on like over-emotional bickering children!) There is a definite and very real rise in anti-Jewish sentiment. One source for anti-Jewish sentiment, and an important one, is the understanding -- not speculation mind you -- that Israeli interests have become entwined with US state policy decisions. The major policy decisions of the US power-structure are subservient to the interests of Israelis and Jews in America -- the Neoconservative faction is a prime example -- and determine decisions of state. In short it is that faction that forced America into the wars designed by planners biased, in extreme sense, to the needs and will of Israel. These are not speculations these are facts.

So what I suggest is that *you* (an ideal you!) at the very least hold it in your mind that right now, and for the next period of time, it is your allegiance to this essential project that will be fought over in the most direct terms. That is where the *propaganda* will be directed. This is perception-warfare. And I further suggest that at the very core of it is the issue of Jewish and Zionist machinations to keep US policy channeled exactly in the same groove in which it has been channeled since 9/11: the remodeling of the Middle East and the undermining and destruction of a group of Middle East nations.

Ben Shapiro's entire argument, please note, is grounded on Jewish (and Christian) fairy-tales. The things that he refers to are unrealities. Ultimately they are mythologies that are used in processes of perceptual manipulation. We have gone over so much of this on other threads. Zionism is, again in essence, a repetition of a biblical narrative which is based in irreality. You have to see this. Or if you wish you can keep your head in the sand. But I suggest there is more to be gained through 'clear vision'.

Our own semi-lunatic grumpy grandmother asked, in over-emotional seriousness, (I paraphrase) What does Zionism have to do with anything?!? You pitiable idiot. Become responsible by bothering to research the issue.

In a sense there is a black-and-white imperative here: Either you will see clearly or you will see through lenses which distort.

The Zionist Project must be seen as one that has global ramifications. If indeed -- if it is true -- that Israeli interests and Jewish-Israeli operatives in the US government are aligned with the interests of the Israeli state, and if it can influence policy decisions and war-making, for heaven's sake it must be seen and understood that there are global ramifications. And if there is a threat to the narratives that support all of this -- the notion of the Israeli state as a 'victim' and the nature of the struggle in Palestine, brought about through an occupation by Israel, that draws all people into it -- then you must see that the Narrative is the core thing being fought over.

And if this is true then, indeed Walker, it is wise to examine propaganda. Jewish and Israeli propaganda certainly, but Christian Zionist propaganda which determines US policy in the region, in addition to other, more basic, concerns and objectives. But you see Walker you cannot do this! You cannot see yourself. You chose not to see how your own identifications are fought over and how *you* are the battleground. To *turn the lens of examination around* corresponds to what is described in the metaphor of Plato's Cave. You have to take your eyes off the dancing images and the woven narrative structure and see that these have been projected for you!

And as I do not tire saying We are all involved in the same problem. A network of false, mixed and confusing narratives in which we remain mired. Is the object to *get out from underneath them or not*? Or is the objective to become that much more committed to them?

Now, and with that said, I suggest an actual and sober examination of what has arisen and been described as the Jewish Question. That is to say an actor, and agent, capable of weaving the narratives that capture people and hold them within specific narrative structures. I regard Zionism in this light. That is why I referred to Miko Peled the Israeli activist and couner-Zionist.

So in the following we can go right to the center of the issue:

If the “Jewish question” is about the inordinate power of Israeli elite networks within nations, then the Jewish question is also a Christian question: it is about the built-in vulnerability of Christian societies to this power. Deep down, anyone who grew up a Christian knows that the chosen people will have the last word, because if Yahweh is God, his promise is eternal, as he himself declares, in his inimitable megalomaniac style:“By my own self I swear it; what comes from my mouth is saving justice, it is an irrevocable word" (Isaiah 45:23). One can even speak of the “learned helplessness” of Christians, whose Scriptures tell them again and again of God's merciless humiliation of the Jews' enemies. Deeper than that, Christians' helplessness comes from having as ultimate model a man crucified by the Jews: how can the “imitation of Christ” save us from the high priests' power to lobby and corrupt Pilatus?

The Judeo-Babylonian metaphysical hoax makes God not just ridiculously anthropomorphic, but Judeomorphic. To be fooled by it is to mistake the Creator of the Universe for a topical demon rumbling and spitting fire from a Midianite volcano (Exodus 19), adopted as tutelary deity by a confederation of Semitic nomadic tribes craving for a piece of the Fertile Crescent. It is to internalize an extremely primitive and unspiritual image of the divine that is obstructive of sound metaphysical thinking: the divorce between philosophy (the love of Wisdom) and theology (the science of God) is one manifestation of the resulting mental split in Western thought. In the final analysis, the jealous Yahweh, destroyer of all pantheons, is so unconvincing in the garb of the Great universal God that he is fated to be discarded in his turn. Atheism is the end result and the mirror image of biblical monotheism: it is the rejection of the biblical God, mistaken for the true God. “If Yahweh is God, no thanks,” has been the simple rationale for atheism in Christendom since the Enlightenment: Voltaire, for example, scorned Christianity by quoting the Old Testament.Yahweh has ruined men's natural faith in a divine Creator.

[Alexis Jacobi]

…all she cares about is the outrage... the actual issue is really unimportant...

Ouch!

That fits.

Please explain.

I can explain, and I do explain. But the problem is actually one that you need to examine and confront.

So again -- and at least in this -- Monsieur Kropotkin made a trenchant statement:

all she cares about is the outrage... the actual issue is really unimportant...