Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:11 pm
this thread has completely missed the point in several ways...
for example, doing the right thing is a why question... in other words,
why should we do the right thing? what do we gain from doing the right thing,
and why is doing the right thing so hard to figure out? as I am in the middle of
of several days in a row working, I shall be able to fully work out these ideas
tomorrow.. but I will leave you with a hint.... what is the connection
between doing the right thing and self-interest? what does doing the right
thing has to do with "Eudaimonia?" and what is the goal or point of doing the
"right thing?"
Kropotkin
How can a thread miss a point that is not in its OP? What makes you believe doing the right thing is a "why" question? If you know what is the right thing to do then why do you need to ask yourself "why" to do it? The right thing to do is ALWAYS the right thing to do, unless you wish to choose to do the wrong thing!
What’s the right thing to do about abortion, I.e. the thing that will always be right?
What’s the right thing to do when the rights of one class of agents comes into conflict with the rights of another?
What happens when the rights of a potential human residing in its mother’s womb come into conflict with the rights of the actual human who is carrying the unborn?
commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:41 pm
Gary
What’s the right thing to do about abortion, I.e. the thing that will always be right?
What’s the right thing to do when the rights of one class of agents comes into conflict with the rights of another?
What happens when the rights of a potential human residing in its mother’s womb come into conflict with the rights of the actual human who is carrying the unborn?
I don't know the answer to those questions. That's kind of why I asked much the questions that I did in the OP. Why are you asking me questions that I've already asked? If I asked then doesn't it seem likely to you that I don't have those answers? Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking, would I?
If a person wanted to do the right thing in this world. What would that right thing be? I know it depends upon the person but is there something anyone and everyone can do as a matter of rule so that EVERY one of us can participate in being right? What is ALWAYS the right thing to do? Or what do all "right" things to do have in common?
the question of why, is an essential aspect of ''the
right thing to do"..... why should we do the right thing?
what is in it for me? one of the important aspects of being human
is the question, what is in it for me? Self interest
plays a role in everything we do...and for many, ''most" people,
they don't make any type of action without some thought as to
''what is in my self interest?" "what do I get from doing this thing?"
Honestly, how many actions do you make without thinking about
your own self-interest in the matter? and given the fact, yes, fact
that we are driven by forces we don't see or understand, our
own unconscious... much of, if not all of what we do, lies in
the unconscious area of who we are.....and that unconscious nature
is quite often driven by our needs.... the bodily needs of food and water
and shelter and the psychological needs we have of love, self-esteem,
safety/security... for example, we might do the right thing from
our unconscious nature of wanting to be a hero... if I help that
little old lady cross the street, I can, subconsciously, turn that into
me being a hero... and what looks like doing the "right thing" is
quite often seen as, in our ''subconscious", as doing the wrong thing...
or the other way around, we do the "wrong thing" and we see that
as "doing the right thing"... our judgment is quite impaired in terms
of how our actions look to us... doing the "wrong thing" and
''doing the right thing" look exactly alike...
what is our motivation for doing the right thing? which leads us to
the second point in which people, a large percentage of which given
a choice of doing the right thing or doing the wrong thing, will on purposely
choose the wrong thing...these psychopaths will always do the thing
that harms the greatest number of people.... you see this all the time...
someone given all the choices in the world and they will do the wrong thing,
every single time.. with malice and forethought and knowledge knowing
that there action will harm someone, will still do the wrong thing....
I have seen this time and time again, whereby given a choice,
a lot of people, I would say up to 20% will on purpose, do the wrong
thing to cause chaos and fear and harm to as many as possible...
why? because they get off on creating damage and harm to others....
that is why quite of bit of the time, the wrong thing is done and done
on purposely.....they will quite often self-sabotage themselves
and if given the chance, they will sabotage everyone around them...
I have seen this time and time and time again... to the point where
it is quite apparent...I guess they fear being happy for some reason,
and they certainly don't want to see others happy if they can't be happy...
so, doing the right thing actually has different components to it...
it is not the simple thing you make it out to be....
commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:41 pm
Gary
What’s the right thing to do about abortion, I.e. the thing that will always be right?
What’s the right thing to do when the rights of one class of agents comes into conflict with the rights of another?
What happens when the rights of a potential human residing in its mother’s womb come into conflict with the rights of the actual human who is carrying the unborn?
I don't know the answer to those questions. That's kind of why I asked much the questions that I did in the OP. Why are you asking me questions that I've already asked? If I asked then doesn't it seem likely to you that I don't have those answers? Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking, would I?
If a person wanted to do the right thing in this world. What would that right thing be? I know it depends upon the person but is there something anyone and everyone can do as a matter of rule so that EVERY one of us can participate in being right? What is ALWAYS the right thing to do? Or what do all "right" things to do have in common?
I must have mistakenly read between the lines, as I thought you were implying that there can be a thing that is always the right thing to do.
that there is no universal means of understanding what
"the right thing to do'' is...
we have no path to universalizing either the "right thing to do"
or the understanding of what the ''right thing to do'' is...
it is all situational ethics... the situation dictates the ethics....
and there is no universal format in that situational ethics...
Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:08 pm
that there is no universal means of understanding what
"the right thing to do'' is...
we have no path to universalizing either the "right thing to do"
or the understanding of what the ''right thing to do'' is...
it is all situational ethics... the situation dictates the ethics....
and there is no universal format in that situational ethics...
one of the real problems with this idea of "the right thing to do" is
epistemological... how do we "know" what the right thing to do'' is..
on what factual basis can we know ''what the right thing to do" is...
for example, one of the "factual" basis of punishment is that it alleges
that somehow, never exactly explained how, but somehow
the act of punishment creates some sort of deterrent..
and the fact is that has never been proven...
we punish and we punish and we punish, and yet, crime
continues on.. we have, in America the largest population
of people jailed in the western world, both in numbers and in percentage,
and yet, somehow there is still crime in America... puzzling, I know...
at most, the thought of going to prison or capital punishment
doesn't really slow people down from committing crimes...
right now in America is a major crime wave in retail stores...
Dicks sporting good store has admitted that theft has damaged
their bottom line immensely...they estimated that Dicks has
lost close to a billion dollars in goods due to shoplifting over
the last year.. for retail businesses, that type of loss is unsustainable...
and business will start to go out of business because of it...
(recall, I work in retail and have spent over 20 years working in retail)
this me first attitude of American's will cost jobs, money, and safety
of millions of Americans.... (recently, around here, at a home depot,
a loss prevention worker was shot to death by a shoplifter and that
story will become more noticeable as the years go on...and violence
against retail workers is increasing... I myself came within seconds of
such an act of violence, as someone tried to attack me, but they were
held back by others.. next time, I won't be so lucky.. and verbal attacks
are really going up in numbers.. again, having been on the back side of
that one too, and I have seen it time and time against our workers,
especially the female workers...guys are cowards and by verbally
attacking a woman, you have less risk of being beaten up by a male worker..
so, what is the right thing to do in the midst of this rise in both verbal
assaults and physical assaults in retail? and if I retaliate, strike back,
I will be fired... that is a fact jack.. seen that done too...
so enough of this theory of the "right thing to do?" bring this back to
reality.... what is the ''right thing to do'' in regard to retail violence?