Samuel Beckett from Endgame
The end is in the beginning and yet you go on.
Not many that isn't applicable to.
I use the words you taught me. If they don't mean anything any more, teach me others.
Then all the way to the grave.
Use your head, can't you, use your head, you're on earth, there's no cure for that!
Next up: the cure that's worse than the disease.
God damn you to hell, Sir, no, it's indecent, there are limits! In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. Yes Sir, no less Sir, the world! And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
'But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world and look at my trousers!
Next up: your trousers.
All life long, the same questions, the same answers.
Next up: eternal recurrence.
This is slow work. Is it not time for my pain-killer?
What do you think?
Quote of the day
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henry quirk
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Neal Stephenson from Snow Crash
Ninety-nine percent of everything that goes on in most Christian churches has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual religion. Intelligent people all notice this sooner or later, and they conclude that the entire one hundred percent is bullshit, which is why atheism is connected with being intelligent in people's minds.
Uh, let that sink in?
She's a woman, you're a dude. You're not supposed to understand her. That's not what she's after.... She doesn't want you to understand her. She knows that's impossible. She just wants you to understand yourself.
Not counting me of course.
When you are wrestling for possession of a sword, the man with the handle always wins.
Good to know?
I don't even want you to nod, that's how much you annoy me. Just freeze and shut up.
And, of course, the equivalent of that here.
This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, you got a problem with that? Because they have a right to. And because they have guns and no one can fucking stop them.
No, really.
Did you win your sword fight?
Of course I won the fucking sword fight, Hiro says. I'm the greatest sword fighter in the world.
And you wrote the software.
Yeah. That, too, Hiro says.
It's "that, too" for lots of things, right?
Ninety-nine percent of everything that goes on in most Christian churches has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual religion. Intelligent people all notice this sooner or later, and they conclude that the entire one hundred percent is bullshit, which is why atheism is connected with being intelligent in people's minds.
Uh, let that sink in?
She's a woman, you're a dude. You're not supposed to understand her. That's not what she's after.... She doesn't want you to understand her. She knows that's impossible. She just wants you to understand yourself.
Not counting me of course.
When you are wrestling for possession of a sword, the man with the handle always wins.
Good to know?
I don't even want you to nod, that's how much you annoy me. Just freeze and shut up.
And, of course, the equivalent of that here.
This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, you got a problem with that? Because they have a right to. And because they have guns and no one can fucking stop them.
No, really.
Did you win your sword fight?
Of course I won the fucking sword fight, Hiro says. I'm the greatest sword fighter in the world.
And you wrote the software.
Yeah. That, too, Hiro says.
It's "that, too" for lots of things, right?
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Stupidity...
“We have known for a long time that Prince Charles' empty sails are so rigged as to be swelled by any passing waft or breeze of crankiness and cant. He fell for the fake anthropologist Laurens van der Post. He was bowled over by the charms of homeopathic medicine. He has been believably reported as saying that plants do better if you talk to them in a soothing and encouraging way.” Christopher Hitchens
Next up: King Charles' empty sails.
“...it’s just another one of those things I don’t understand: everyone impresses upon you how unique you are, encouraging you to cultivate your individuality while at the same time trying to squish you and everyone else into the same ridiculous mold." E.A. Bucchianeri
We all know the one here.
"Hundreds of wise men cannot make the world a heaven, but one idiot is enough to turn it into a hell." Raheel Farooq
Here? That would be me, right?
"Optimism and stupidity are nearly synonymous.” Hyman G. Rickover
Not to mention the other way around.
"You really are a few biscuits short of breakfast.
His eyebrows furrowed in confusion.
You're a few colors shy of a rainbow? she offered. Not pulling a full wagon? Knitting with only one needle? All foam and no beer? Your cheese slid off the cracker? You couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel?'
All right. I get it.? Blake Charlton
So, Mr. Pinhead, why can't you?
“When I want to be reminded of stupidity, especially my own, I turn on the TV.” Dejan Stojanovic
Well, not counting the good shows, of course.
“We have known for a long time that Prince Charles' empty sails are so rigged as to be swelled by any passing waft or breeze of crankiness and cant. He fell for the fake anthropologist Laurens van der Post. He was bowled over by the charms of homeopathic medicine. He has been believably reported as saying that plants do better if you talk to them in a soothing and encouraging way.” Christopher Hitchens
Next up: King Charles' empty sails.
“...it’s just another one of those things I don’t understand: everyone impresses upon you how unique you are, encouraging you to cultivate your individuality while at the same time trying to squish you and everyone else into the same ridiculous mold." E.A. Bucchianeri
We all know the one here.
"Hundreds of wise men cannot make the world a heaven, but one idiot is enough to turn it into a hell." Raheel Farooq
Here? That would be me, right?
"Optimism and stupidity are nearly synonymous.” Hyman G. Rickover
Not to mention the other way around.
"You really are a few biscuits short of breakfast.
His eyebrows furrowed in confusion.
You're a few colors shy of a rainbow? she offered. Not pulling a full wagon? Knitting with only one needle? All foam and no beer? Your cheese slid off the cracker? You couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel?'
All right. I get it.? Blake Charlton
So, Mr. Pinhead, why can't you?
“When I want to be reminded of stupidity, especially my own, I turn on the TV.” Dejan Stojanovic
Well, not counting the good shows, of course.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Mary Roach from Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void
Given the complexity of the chore, “escapees,” as free-floating fecal material is known in astronautical circles, plagued the crews.
Shit happens?
...many space psychology experiments these days focus on ways to detect stress or depression in a person who doesn’t intend to tell you about it.
Good call.
They have this idea that they can send astronauts up and the bone loss will level off in a few months, but the evidence that has come back doesn’t support that view. If you look at a two-year mission to Mars, it’s kind of a scary prospect.
And it should be. They'll be 229.02 million miles from the nearest hospital.
Weightlessness is like heroin, or how I imagine heroin must be. You try it once, and when it's over, all you can think about is how much you want to do it again. But apparently the thrill wears off.
On the other hand:
Mark Renton describing a heroin high: "...take the best orgasm you've ever had... multiply it by a thousand, and you're still nowhere near it.
FROM TIME TO TIME, there was talk among the astronauts that it might be nice to have a drink with dinner. Beer is a no-fly, because without gravity, carbonation bubbles don’t rise to the surface. “You just get a foamy froth,” says Bourland. He says Coke spent $450,000 developing a zero-gravity dispenser, only to be undone by biology. Since bubbles also don’t rise to the top of a stomach, the astronauts had trouble burping. “Often a burp is accompanied by a liquid spray,” Bourland adds.
Actually, I didn't know that.
Gravity is why there are suns and planets in the first place. It is practically God. In the beginning, the cosmos was nothing but empty space and vast clouds of gases. Eventually the gases cooled to the point where tiny grains coalesced. These grains would have spent eternity moving through space, ignoring each other, had gravitational attraction not brought them together.
The Christian God, right IC?
Given the complexity of the chore, “escapees,” as free-floating fecal material is known in astronautical circles, plagued the crews.
Shit happens?
...many space psychology experiments these days focus on ways to detect stress or depression in a person who doesn’t intend to tell you about it.
Good call.
They have this idea that they can send astronauts up and the bone loss will level off in a few months, but the evidence that has come back doesn’t support that view. If you look at a two-year mission to Mars, it’s kind of a scary prospect.
And it should be. They'll be 229.02 million miles from the nearest hospital.
Weightlessness is like heroin, or how I imagine heroin must be. You try it once, and when it's over, all you can think about is how much you want to do it again. But apparently the thrill wears off.
On the other hand:
Mark Renton describing a heroin high: "...take the best orgasm you've ever had... multiply it by a thousand, and you're still nowhere near it.
FROM TIME TO TIME, there was talk among the astronauts that it might be nice to have a drink with dinner. Beer is a no-fly, because without gravity, carbonation bubbles don’t rise to the surface. “You just get a foamy froth,” says Bourland. He says Coke spent $450,000 developing a zero-gravity dispenser, only to be undone by biology. Since bubbles also don’t rise to the top of a stomach, the astronauts had trouble burping. “Often a burp is accompanied by a liquid spray,” Bourland adds.
Actually, I didn't know that.
Gravity is why there are suns and planets in the first place. It is practically God. In the beginning, the cosmos was nothing but empty space and vast clouds of gases. Eventually the gases cooled to the point where tiny grains coalesced. These grains would have spent eternity moving through space, ignoring each other, had gravitational attraction not brought them together.
The Christian God, right IC?
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henry quirk
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promethean75
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Re: Quote of the day
I'll see your Spooner and raise u two Stirners.
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henry quirk
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Re: Quote of the day
I see your Stirners & raise you handful of de la Paz...
“Under what circumstances may the State justly place its welfare above that of a citizen?”
“Prof, as I see, [there] are no circumstances under which [the] State is justified in placing its welfare ahead of mine.”
“Good, we have a starting point.”
~ Professor de la Paz and Manuel O’Kelly-Davis
“Under what circumstances is it moral for a group to do that which is not moral for a member of that group to do alone?”
“Uh… that’s a trick question.”
“It is the key question, dear Wyoming. A radical question that strikes to the root of the whole dilemma of government. Anyone who answers honestly and abides by all consequences knows where he stands – and what he will die for.”
~ Professor de la Paz and Wyoming Knott
“A rational anarchist believes that such concepts as ‘state’ and ‘society’ and ‘government’ have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame… as blame, guilt, responsibility are taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluation, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world… aware that his effort will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge and self-failure.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Sir, there was a time when it was not simply expensive to ship goods across oceans but impossible. Then it was expensive, difficult, dangerous. Today you sell your goods half around your planet almost as cheaply as next door; long-distance shipping is the least important factor in cost. Gentlemen, I am not an engineer. But I have learned this about engineers. When something must be done, engineers can find a way that is economically feasible. If you want the grain that we can grow, turn your engineers loose.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“A managed democracy is a wonderful thing, Manuel, for the managers… and its greatest strength is a ‘free press’ when ‘free’ is defined as ‘responsible’ and the managers define what is ‘irresponsible.’ ”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Comrade Members, like fire and fusion, government is a dangerous servant and a terrible master. You now have freedom – if you can keep it. But do remember that you can lose this freedom more quickly to yourselves than to any other tyrant.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Distrust the obvious, suspect the traditional, for in the past mankind has not done well when saddling itself with governments… Whatever you do, do not let the past be a straitjacket! ”
~ Professor de la Paz
“But in writing your constitution let me invite attention to the wonderful virtues of the negative! Accentuate the negative! Let your document be studded with things the government is forever forbidden to do.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“I would be satisfied to have the Golden Rule be the only law; I see no need for any other, nor for any method of enforcing. But if you really believe that your neighbors must have laws for their own good, why shouldn’t you pay for it? Comrades, I beg you – do not resort to compulsory taxation. There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Under what circumstances may the State justly place its welfare above that of a citizen?”
“Prof, as I see, [there] are no circumstances under which [the] State is justified in placing its welfare ahead of mine.”
“Good, we have a starting point.”
~ Professor de la Paz and Manuel O’Kelly-Davis
“Under what circumstances is it moral for a group to do that which is not moral for a member of that group to do alone?”
“Uh… that’s a trick question.”
“It is the key question, dear Wyoming. A radical question that strikes to the root of the whole dilemma of government. Anyone who answers honestly and abides by all consequences knows where he stands – and what he will die for.”
~ Professor de la Paz and Wyoming Knott
“A rational anarchist believes that such concepts as ‘state’ and ‘society’ and ‘government’ have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame… as blame, guilt, responsibility are taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluation, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world… aware that his effort will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge and self-failure.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Sir, there was a time when it was not simply expensive to ship goods across oceans but impossible. Then it was expensive, difficult, dangerous. Today you sell your goods half around your planet almost as cheaply as next door; long-distance shipping is the least important factor in cost. Gentlemen, I am not an engineer. But I have learned this about engineers. When something must be done, engineers can find a way that is economically feasible. If you want the grain that we can grow, turn your engineers loose.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“A managed democracy is a wonderful thing, Manuel, for the managers… and its greatest strength is a ‘free press’ when ‘free’ is defined as ‘responsible’ and the managers define what is ‘irresponsible.’ ”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Comrade Members, like fire and fusion, government is a dangerous servant and a terrible master. You now have freedom – if you can keep it. But do remember that you can lose this freedom more quickly to yourselves than to any other tyrant.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“Distrust the obvious, suspect the traditional, for in the past mankind has not done well when saddling itself with governments… Whatever you do, do not let the past be a straitjacket! ”
~ Professor de la Paz
“But in writing your constitution let me invite attention to the wonderful virtues of the negative! Accentuate the negative! Let your document be studded with things the government is forever forbidden to do.”
~ Professor de la Paz
“I would be satisfied to have the Golden Rule be the only law; I see no need for any other, nor for any method of enforcing. But if you really believe that your neighbors must have laws for their own good, why shouldn’t you pay for it? Comrades, I beg you – do not resort to compulsory taxation. There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
~ Professor de la Paz
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Fyodor Dostoevsky from Crime and Punishment
Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.
Though for some, sadness is the least of it.
To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's.
Trust me: no way, not always.
We sometimes encounter people, even perfect strangers, who begin to interest us at first sight, somehow suddenly, all at once, before a word has been spoken.
Nope, not yet.
I used to analyze myself down to the last thread, used to compare myself with others, recalled all the smallest glances, smiles and words of those to whom I’d tried to be frank, interpreted everything in a bad light, laughed viciously at my attempts ‘to be like the rest’ –and suddenly, in the midst of my laughing, I’d give way to sadness, fall into ludicrous despondency and once again start the whole process all over again – in short, I went round and round like a squirrel on a wheel.
The good news? Only all the way to the grave.
We're always thinking of eternity as an idea that cannot be understood, something immense. But why must it be? What if, instead of all this, you suddenly find just a little room there, something like a village bath-house, grimy, and spiders in every corner, and that's all eternity is. Sometimes, you know, I can't help feeling that that's what it is.
Better than nothing?
Man grows used to everything...
Everything? No fucking way.
Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.
Though for some, sadness is the least of it.
To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's.
Trust me: no way, not always.
We sometimes encounter people, even perfect strangers, who begin to interest us at first sight, somehow suddenly, all at once, before a word has been spoken.
Nope, not yet.
I used to analyze myself down to the last thread, used to compare myself with others, recalled all the smallest glances, smiles and words of those to whom I’d tried to be frank, interpreted everything in a bad light, laughed viciously at my attempts ‘to be like the rest’ –and suddenly, in the midst of my laughing, I’d give way to sadness, fall into ludicrous despondency and once again start the whole process all over again – in short, I went round and round like a squirrel on a wheel.
The good news? Only all the way to the grave.
We're always thinking of eternity as an idea that cannot be understood, something immense. But why must it be? What if, instead of all this, you suddenly find just a little room there, something like a village bath-house, grimy, and spiders in every corner, and that's all eternity is. Sometimes, you know, I can't help feeling that that's what it is.
Better than nothing?
Man grows used to everything...
Everything? No fucking way.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Frank Herbert from Dune
The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.
Oh, it's a mystery alright. But I'd forget about solving it.
To wit...
Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.
Maybe even way, way, way, way, way beyond logic. And certainly religion.
What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
Of course: fiercely fanatically objectivists and pinheads.
There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.
Next up: passing it on to our descendants.
When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late.
Hey, if the shoe fits, okay?
Hope clouds observation.
For some almost as much as despair.
The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.
Oh, it's a mystery alright. But I'd forget about solving it.
To wit...
Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.
Maybe even way, way, way, way, way beyond logic. And certainly religion.
What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
Of course: fiercely fanatically objectivists and pinheads.
There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.
Next up: passing it on to our descendants.
When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late.
Hey, if the shoe fits, okay?
Hope clouds observation.
For some almost as much as despair.
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henry quirk
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Re: Quote of the day
Manuel, "Mannie" O'Kelly, Wyoming "Wyoh" Knott, and Professor Bernardo de La Paz conversing...
"Now," I said, after we toasted, "Prof, what you think of pennant race? Got money says Yankees can't do it again?"
"Manuel, what is your political philosophy?"
"With that new boy from Milwaukee I feel like investing."
"Sometimes a man doesn't have it defined but, under Socratic inquiry, knows where he stands and why."
"I'll back 'em against field, three to two."
"What? You young idiot! How much?"
"Three hundred. Hong Kong."
"Done. For example, under what circumstances may the State justly place its welfare above that of a citizen?"
"Mannie," Wyoh asked, "do you have any more foolish money? I think well of the Phillies."
I looked her over. "Just what were you thinking of betting?"
"You go to hell! Rapist."
"Prof, as I see, are no circumstances under which State is justified in placing its welfare ahead of mine."
"Good. We have a starting point."
"Mannie," said Wyoh, "that's a most self-centered evaluation."
"I'm a most self-centered person."
"Oh, nonsense. Who rescued me? Me, a stranger. And didn't try to exploit it. Professor, I was cracking not facking. Mannie was a perfect knight."
"Sans peur et sans reproche. I knew, I've known him for years. Which is not inconsistent with evaluation he expressed."
"Oh, but it is! Not the way things are but under the ideal toward which we aim. Mannie, the 'State' is Luna. Even though not sovereign yet and we hold citizenships elsewhere. But I am part of the Lunar State and so is your family. Would you die for your family?"
"Two questions not related."
"Oh, but they are! That's the point."
"Nyet. I know my family, opted long ago."
"Dear Lady, I must come to Manuel's defense. He has a correct evaluation even though he may not be able to state it. May I ask this? Under what circumstances is it moral for a group to do that which is not moral for a member of that group to do alone?"
"Uh... that's a trick question."
"It is the key question, dear Wyoming. A radical question that strikes to the root of the whole dilemma of government. Anyone who answers honestly and abides by all consequences knows where he stands-- and what he will die for."
Wyoh frowned. "'Not moral for a member of the group--'" she said.
"Professor... what are your political principles?"
"May I first ask yours? If you can state them?"
"Certainly I can! I'm a Fifth Internationalist, most of the Organization is. Oh, we don't rule out anyone going our way; it's a united front. We have Communists and Fourths and Ruddyites and Societians and Single-Taxers and you name it. But I'm no Marxist; we Fifths have a practical program. Private where private belongs, public where it's needed, and an admission that circumstances alter cases. Nothing doctrinaire."
"Capital punishment?"
"For what?"
"Let's say for treason. Against Luna after you've freed Luna."
"Treason how? Unless I knew the circumstances I could not decide."
"Nor could I, dear Wyoming. But I believe in capital punishment under some circumstances... with this difference. I would not ask a court; I would try, condemn, execute sentence myself, and accept full responsibility."
"But--Professor, what are your political beliefs?"
"I'm a rational anarchist."
"I don't know that brand. Anarchist individualist, anarchist Communist, Christian anarchist, philosophical anarchist, syndicalist, libertarian--those I know. But what's this? Randite?"
"I can get along with a Randite. A rational anarchist believes that concepts such as 'state' and 'society' and 'government' have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame... as blame, guilt, responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluations, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world... aware that his effort will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge of self failure."
"Hear, hear!" I said. "'Less than perfect.' What I've been aiming for all my life."
"You've achieved it," said Wyoh. "Professor, your words sound good but there is something slippery about them. Too much power in the hands of individuals--surely you would not want... well, H-missiles for example--to be controlled by one irresponsible person?"
"My point is that one person is responsible. Always. If H-bombs exist--and they do--some man controls them. In tern of morals there is no such thing as 'state.' Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts."
...
Wyoh plowed doggedly into Prof, certain she had all answers. But Prof was interested in questions rather than answers, which baffled her. Finally she said, "Professor, I can't understand you. I don't insist that you call it 'government'--I just want you to state what rules you think are necessary to insure equal freedom for all."
"Dear lady, I'll happily accept your rules."
"But you don't seem to want any rules!"
"True. But I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
"You would not abide by a law that the majority felt was necessary?"
"Tell me what law, dear lady, and I will tell you whether I will obey it."
"You wiggled out. Every time I state a general principle, you wiggle out."
Prof clasped hands on chest. "Forgive me. Believe me, lovely Wyoming, I am most anxious to please you. You spoke of willingness to unite the front with anyone going your way. Is it enough that I want to see the Authority thrown off Luna and would die to serve that end?"
Wyoh beamed. "It certainly is!" She fisted his ribs--gently--then put arm around him and kissed cheek. "Comrade! Let's get on with it!"
"Cheers!" I said.
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Robert A. Heinlein
"Now," I said, after we toasted, "Prof, what you think of pennant race? Got money says Yankees can't do it again?"
"Manuel, what is your political philosophy?"
"With that new boy from Milwaukee I feel like investing."
"Sometimes a man doesn't have it defined but, under Socratic inquiry, knows where he stands and why."
"I'll back 'em against field, three to two."
"What? You young idiot! How much?"
"Three hundred. Hong Kong."
"Done. For example, under what circumstances may the State justly place its welfare above that of a citizen?"
"Mannie," Wyoh asked, "do you have any more foolish money? I think well of the Phillies."
I looked her over. "Just what were you thinking of betting?"
"You go to hell! Rapist."
"Prof, as I see, are no circumstances under which State is justified in placing its welfare ahead of mine."
"Good. We have a starting point."
"Mannie," said Wyoh, "that's a most self-centered evaluation."
"I'm a most self-centered person."
"Oh, nonsense. Who rescued me? Me, a stranger. And didn't try to exploit it. Professor, I was cracking not facking. Mannie was a perfect knight."
"Sans peur et sans reproche. I knew, I've known him for years. Which is not inconsistent with evaluation he expressed."
"Oh, but it is! Not the way things are but under the ideal toward which we aim. Mannie, the 'State' is Luna. Even though not sovereign yet and we hold citizenships elsewhere. But I am part of the Lunar State and so is your family. Would you die for your family?"
"Two questions not related."
"Oh, but they are! That's the point."
"Nyet. I know my family, opted long ago."
"Dear Lady, I must come to Manuel's defense. He has a correct evaluation even though he may not be able to state it. May I ask this? Under what circumstances is it moral for a group to do that which is not moral for a member of that group to do alone?"
"Uh... that's a trick question."
"It is the key question, dear Wyoming. A radical question that strikes to the root of the whole dilemma of government. Anyone who answers honestly and abides by all consequences knows where he stands-- and what he will die for."
Wyoh frowned. "'Not moral for a member of the group--'" she said.
"Professor... what are your political principles?"
"May I first ask yours? If you can state them?"
"Certainly I can! I'm a Fifth Internationalist, most of the Organization is. Oh, we don't rule out anyone going our way; it's a united front. We have Communists and Fourths and Ruddyites and Societians and Single-Taxers and you name it. But I'm no Marxist; we Fifths have a practical program. Private where private belongs, public where it's needed, and an admission that circumstances alter cases. Nothing doctrinaire."
"Capital punishment?"
"For what?"
"Let's say for treason. Against Luna after you've freed Luna."
"Treason how? Unless I knew the circumstances I could not decide."
"Nor could I, dear Wyoming. But I believe in capital punishment under some circumstances... with this difference. I would not ask a court; I would try, condemn, execute sentence myself, and accept full responsibility."
"But--Professor, what are your political beliefs?"
"I'm a rational anarchist."
"I don't know that brand. Anarchist individualist, anarchist Communist, Christian anarchist, philosophical anarchist, syndicalist, libertarian--those I know. But what's this? Randite?"
"I can get along with a Randite. A rational anarchist believes that concepts such as 'state' and 'society' and 'government' have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame... as blame, guilt, responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluations, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world... aware that his effort will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge of self failure."
"Hear, hear!" I said. "'Less than perfect.' What I've been aiming for all my life."
"You've achieved it," said Wyoh. "Professor, your words sound good but there is something slippery about them. Too much power in the hands of individuals--surely you would not want... well, H-missiles for example--to be controlled by one irresponsible person?"
"My point is that one person is responsible. Always. If H-bombs exist--and they do--some man controls them. In tern of morals there is no such thing as 'state.' Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts."
...
Wyoh plowed doggedly into Prof, certain she had all answers. But Prof was interested in questions rather than answers, which baffled her. Finally she said, "Professor, I can't understand you. I don't insist that you call it 'government'--I just want you to state what rules you think are necessary to insure equal freedom for all."
"Dear lady, I'll happily accept your rules."
"But you don't seem to want any rules!"
"True. But I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
"You would not abide by a law that the majority felt was necessary?"
"Tell me what law, dear lady, and I will tell you whether I will obey it."
"You wiggled out. Every time I state a general principle, you wiggle out."
Prof clasped hands on chest. "Forgive me. Believe me, lovely Wyoming, I am most anxious to please you. You spoke of willingness to unite the front with anyone going your way. Is it enough that I want to see the Authority thrown off Luna and would die to serve that end?"
Wyoh beamed. "It certainly is!" She fisted his ribs--gently--then put arm around him and kissed cheek. "Comrade! Let's get on with it!"
"Cheers!" I said.
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Robert A. Heinlein
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Harper Lee from To Kill a Mockingbird
There's a lot of ugly things in this world, son. I wish I could keep 'em all away from you. That's never possible.
Next up: all the ugly things here.
Don’t talk like that, Dill, said Aunt Alexandra. It’s not becoming to a child. It’s – cynical.
I ain’t cynical, Miss Alexandra. Tellin’ the truth’s not cynical, is it?
The way you tell it, it is.
Next up: the way I tell it...over and over and over again.
Things are never as bad as they seem.
Wow, what a coincidence. Things are never as good as they seem.
Bad language is a stage all children go through, and it dies with time when they learn they're not attracting attention with it.
Not counting the pinheads of course. Right kids?
Cry about the simple hell people give other people- without even thinking. Cry about the hell white people give colored folks, without even stopping to think that they're people too.
Yo, Satyr! You're up!!
I shall never marry, Atticus.
Why?
I might have children.
Tell that to Michelle Goldberg.
There's a lot of ugly things in this world, son. I wish I could keep 'em all away from you. That's never possible.
Next up: all the ugly things here.
Don’t talk like that, Dill, said Aunt Alexandra. It’s not becoming to a child. It’s – cynical.
I ain’t cynical, Miss Alexandra. Tellin’ the truth’s not cynical, is it?
The way you tell it, it is.
Next up: the way I tell it...over and over and over again.
Things are never as bad as they seem.
Wow, what a coincidence. Things are never as good as they seem.
Bad language is a stage all children go through, and it dies with time when they learn they're not attracting attention with it.
Not counting the pinheads of course. Right kids?
Cry about the simple hell people give other people- without even thinking. Cry about the hell white people give colored folks, without even stopping to think that they're people too.
Yo, Satyr! You're up!!
I shall never marry, Atticus.
Why?
I might have children.
Tell that to Michelle Goldberg.