Christianity

[promethean75]

Fantastic writer iddint he?

[henry quirk]

Here, then, are a few examples of it. Plenty more could be provided.

Every example you offer can be explained as an observer projecting human characteristics onto non-human behavior. It's folks anthropomorphizing non-folks.

Here's my anecdote...

Last month I had to put down one of our two cats. Miss Kitty (yeah, we're an original bunch with namin') was 17 years old, had one eye, was surly, and was, right up to the end, The Mistress of All She Surveyed. We'd noticed, in the last year, her age was catchin' up with her. But she was given a clean bill by the vet, so we didn't worry too much. Last month, quite abruptly, her rear legs stoped working. There were no apparent injuries. The vet, after examining her, said she was at the beginning of organ failure. Her age had finally taken it's toll. All we could was make her comfortable. The vet said she wouldn't experience any pain but the paralysis would spread. I opted to have her put down then and there. We own land in the country-proper. I took her out there and buried her.

We all miss her.

Truth be told: we miss the projected personality, the anthropomorphization, we created for her.

Understand: I'm not sayin' *anthropomorphizin' is a bad thing. It's at the heart of humane care. It's akin to empathy, to compassion.

What I'm looking for is your causal explanation of the behaviour here.

What's the causal explanation for a Roomba's behavior as it trundles across the floor?




*Hell, we kinda anthropomorphize each other, in-forum. We ascribe to one another qualities based solely on what we each post here. We create fictional persons which may have little to do with the actual persons we align or contend with.

The difference, of course, is we can be reasonably sure the folks we overlay false personalities onto are actual persons, with all being persons entails, while The Mistress of All She Surveyed my family loved was just a meat machine, far more complex than an auto-floor sweeper but fundamentally no different than that floor sweeper.

[promethean75]

Whatever I don't wanna hear it. U killed miss kitty.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Nietzsche: The gospels are invaluable as evidence of the corruption that was already persistent within the primitive community. That which Paul, with the cynical logic of a rabbi, later developed to a conclusion was at bottom merely a process of decay that had begun with the death of the Saviour.

These gospels cannot be read too carefully; difficulties lurk behind every word. I confess—I hope it will not be held against me—that it is precisely for this reason that they offer first-rate joy to a psychologist—as the opposite of all merely naive corruption, as refinement par excellence, as an artistic triumph in psychological corruption. The gospels, in fact, stand alone.

The Bible as a whole is not to be compared to them. Here we are among Jews: this is the first thing to be borne in mind if we are not to lose the thread of the matter. This positive genius for conjuring up a delusion of personal "holiness" unmatched anywhere else, either in books or by men; this elevation of fraud in word and attitude to the level of an art—all this is not an accident due to the chance talents of an individual, or to any violation of nature. The thing responsible is race.

So, some comments and then some explanation of *whereI am coming from* in relation to my investigation of Christianity, largely through the Catholic lens, and all of this a) in the social and political context of the Culture Wars, and b) under the influence of René Guénon who pointed out that in *original Catholicism* there were still strong traces of (what he believed to be) genuine metaphysical currents.

As I always tend to do I *went right the the core* when I investigated Catholicism and got the best, the most originally Catholic, the most essential titles, and it was these I read. I even got hold of the original Breviary and other books where the original Christian hymns, in Latin, were translated.

I got hold of the most original and complete prayer books with all the prayers a Catholic would refer to (pre-Vatican ll of course). Everything post-Vatican ll I shunned. One of my favorites, it still is, is A Dictionary of Christian Antiquities (1876-1880). Through it I could see how deeply Christian symbols had penetrated Occidental culture. A far more recent source is the Oxford Companion to Christian Thought. Through it it became clear how profoundly, how inextricably, Christian concepts and ideals have penetrated Occidental (and world) thought.

I am certainly capable of fairly understanding what Nietzsche meant by *corruption*, but I am sure that most people would not understand the reference to the First Century and its *confusion of peoples* and *confusion of ideas* may have meant for Nietzsche. It meant a great deal to Houston Chamberlain though and, as it happens, there is an attempt (it is still going on) to wring out of Christian metaphysics what is indeed corrupt, weakening, false, and *exclusive* in that ugly Jewish-Hebrew sense of condemnatory of all other religious and metaphysical ideas or speculations.

But naturally Nietzsche means something far more evident directly in the Gospel accounts and, then, predominantly in Paul for whom he holds a definite contempt. It is hard to talk about that contempt because it has a great deal to do with a certain duality of position in Nietzsche: on one hand *admiring of Jews* and their strategies and tactics, but also deeply contemptful. Was he an *antisemite*? Overall I would say yes. And the reason is that when once you see that everything in Jewish scripture is an endless set of fabrications which has the sole purpose of setting up Jews as God's chosen directors of the Earth (to be realized when the Jewish Messiah arrives) you see essentially, and unmasked, an incredible script that plays over generations, centuries and indeed millennia. There is nothing like Jewish historical mythology, and it is an extraordinary thing that Jewish identification with the mythology -- the mythology being the existential toolbook -- provides a continual paradigm through which the Plan -- God's Plan for Jews and for the Earth's destiny -- is held to. Some fall away, some remain at the center of it, but it is Jewish Will through centuries and millennia that is, truly, a fabulous and nearly incredible thing.

In order to understand the Jewish situation in Europe in the 19th and 20th centuries, you have to understand how people like Houston Stuart Chamberlain saw 'the Jewish project'. I assume that no one reading here has any idea who HSC is or was. But let's face it: the people who write here have very little *historical perspective* nor any interest in it.

The reason I mention Houston Chamberlain reduces to something rather simple: A will developed, let us call it a counter-will, to what I might also call The Jewish Project in history. Again, no one here knows about these things. No one here understand why it is, continually, that so much of the lines of conflict in our Age arise out of Jewish-Christian will on one side and a nexus of power and ideation that -- how to put this? -- seeks an alternative. So if you reject *the Christian Story* as an enormous, indeed and incredible, fabrication (and a corrupt one on many levels as Nietzsche exclaims with an ever-increasing shrill note) you can do so through a loose, unstructured negation, but you would really have to develop a fully structured, a fully realistic, a fully operate counter-mythological construct to oppose that which you oppose.

So, if you study for example Susannah Heschel's The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany:

Journal of Religion in Europe review:

Susannah Heschel, The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi
Germany (Princeton: Princeton University Press)

Susannah Heschel’s book The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in
Nazi Germany is a detailed study of the “Institute for the Study and Eradication
of Jewish Influence on German Church Life” (Institut zur Erforschung und
Beseitigung des jüdischen Einfl usses auf das deutsche kirchliche Leben), operating in
the Third Reich between 1939 and 1945. With the help of painstaking research
into archives and some interviews with people who still remember those days, this
more or less forgotten institute, its general ideas, its institutional contacts with the
state and with the protestant churches of Germany, and its destiny during the
Third Reich, are thoroughly discussed. The members of the institute, under the
leadership of Walter Grundmann, viewed themselves to be in a “defense war”
against the “satanic powers of world Judaism,” and thought of themselves as tak-
ing part in a cosmic battle where their job was to clean Christianity of Jewish
impurities. The members of the institute belonged to the fraction within the
Protestant churches in Germany known at that time as German Christians
(Deutsche Christen). This fraction strived to harmonize the glad tidings of Jesus
Christ with the message of the Führer. Sometimes these theologians were moti-
vated by pure and simple opportunism, but more often they deeply believed that
once Christianity got rid of the stains put on it by those who had murdered Jesus,
Christianity would appear identical with National Socialism. While they were try-
ing to transform their religion according to the will of the new regime, these
German Christians, however, also had to fight neo-pagan trends among leading
party members—neo-pagans who argued persuasively that Christianity was an
altogether Jewish affair.

If you read her book, and a number of other books that examine what was happening in Europe among wide circles, I assure you that in general there was, and indeed there still is, a concerted effort to *get out from under* an overarching mythology that has at its center the notion of Jewish Destiny (Jewish God as owner of the Earth, of all people, the Universe, of Being and Time, and Destiny) which is, clearly, also extended through Christian mythology. When one recognizes what, in fact, is being talked about, i.e. what is actually being fought over, the entire issue gets really REALLY strange.

You have to read Nietzsche within a far larger context of battle-lines between perceptual and indeed existential systems, and indeed all that we talk about here takes place within that sort of bubble.

Back to Nietzsche:

The whole of Judaism appears in Christianity as the art of concocting holy lies, and there, after many centuries of earnest Jewish training and hard practice of Jewish technic, the business comes to the stage of mastery. The Christian, that ultima ratio of lying, is the Jew all over again—he is threefold the Jew… The underlying will to make use only of such concepts, symbols and attitudes as fit into priestly practice, the instinctive repudiation of every other mode of thought, and every other method of estimating values and utilities—this is not only tradition, it is inheritance: only as an inheritance is it able to operate with the force of nature.

The whole of mankind, even the best minds of the best ages (with one exception, perhaps hardly human—), have permitted themselves to be deceived.

There you have it: the accusation of the Lie. Biblical history, the mythologies therein, their handling by a Priest Class, the threat that if you as a Jew deviate from what God has established for you as that Historical Plan that He will annihilate and torture you in the most wicked of ways

However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.

18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.

20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

Once one has *punctured* this Voice that is portrayed to intone these unreally terrible things, I assure you that the entire issue of the ventriloquized Voice of God suddenly is challenged.

It has continually appeared to me that our own dear Immanuel, in his heart of hearts, wishes to be seen by *Jesus* as out-Jewing the Jew. There is a huge strain of this in modern Evangelical Christianity. To serve the Jew is to serve God! If you do not serve the Jew you put yourself on the side of God's wrath. I am not making this up! It's everywhere.

So then, it becomes imperative to examine the concoction of holy lies. These are -- Nietzsche really plays within transvaluations! -- the most devilish of lied about things.

after many centuries of earnest Jewish training and hard practice of Jewish technic

Take it as you wish to but when you see what is referred to it cannot be merely side-stepped. Jewish mythology, the Jewish explanation of Jewish being as chosen by the world's and the Universe's owner is a pretty intense mythological idea.

And what is that technic? It is the spinning of Story. It has to do with the manipulation of not only what people think but with the very platform of what is perceived and what things mean. What Nietzsche is getting at, I mean really, is a Hebrew skill at manipulating the mind of believing Jews (through a priest class) but how the same technic is used as a far larger social and cultural control (or direction) mechanics.

Was Nietzsche an antisemite? It depends on whether one agrees to see things as he was presenting them. That is when one examines the handling of fantastic narratives touching on metaphysics, on the destiny of the Earth, on the purpose of existence and the Universe. I assure you none of this is *easy material*.

Nietzsche:

The gospels have been read as a book of innocence… surely no small indication of the high skill with which the trick has been done.—Of course, if we could actually see these astounding bigots and bogus saints, even if only for an instant, the farce would come to an end,—and it is precisely because I cannot read a word of theirs without seeing their attitudinizing that I have made an end of them… I simply cannot endure the way they have of rolling up their eyes.

For the majority, happily enough, books are mere literature.—Let us not be led astray: they say "judge not", and yet they condemn to hell whoever stands in their way. In letting God sit in judgment they judge themselves; in glorifying God they glorify themselves; in demanding that every one show the virtues which they themselves happen to be capable of—still more, which they must have in order to remain on top—they assume the grand air of men struggling for virtue, of men engaging in a war that virtue may prevail.

"We live, we die, we sacrifice ourselves for the good" (—"the truth", "the light", "the kingdom of God"): in point of fact, they simply do what they cannot help doing. Forced, like hypocrites, to be sneaky, to hide in corners, to slink along in the shadows, they convert their necessity into a duty: it is on grounds of duty that they account for their lives of humility, and that humility becomes merely one more proof of their piety… Ah, that humble, chaste, charitable brand of fraud!

"Virtue itself shall bear witness for us"… One may read the gospels as books of moral seduction: these petty folks fasten themselves to morality—they know the uses of morality! Morality is the best of all devices for leading mankind by the nose!—The fact is that the conscious conceit of the chosen here disguises itself as modesty: it is in this way that they, the "community", the "good and just", range themselves, once and for always, on one side, the side of "the truth"—and the rest of mankind , "the world", on the other…

In that we observe the most fatal sort of megalomania that the earth has ever seen: little abortions of bigots and liars began to claim exclusive rights in the concepts of "God", "the truth", "the light", "the spirit", "love", "wisdom" and "life", as if these things were synonyms of themselves and thereby they sought to fence themselves off from the "world"; little super-Jews, ripe for some sort of madhouse, turned values upside down in order to meet their notions, just as if the Christian were the meaning, the salt, the standard and even the last judgment of all the rest…

The whole disaster was only made possible by the fact that there already existed in the world a similar megalomania, allied to this one in race, to wit, the Jewish: once a chasm began to yawn between Jews and Judaeo-Christians, the latter had no choice but to employ the self-preservative measures that the Jewish instinct had devised, even against the Jews themselves, whereas the Jews had employed them only against non- Jews. The Christian is simply a Jew of the "reformed" confession.

There is no way to side-step any of this.

So let me ask this question: What happens when the Jew himself sees through the Judeo-Christian Construct? What happens then to that notorious Jewish Will noted by Houston Chamberlain which is so startling, so fear-inspiring, so terrible really, to the Gentile mind, what happens when it undoes itself or sees though itself? What then must it serve if not that Construct I have been alluding to?

And by Gentile mind I mean Anglo-Saxon of European Saxon or if you wish Indo-Aryan mind?

See, this is where the notion of a Perceptual System as a Holy Concoction begins to show itself as a Trap of the Mind. But more than that it is a vast ideological construct that holds one in its grip. Do you wish to get out of it? If you do you will find yourself in a situation (mental, existential, spiritual) perhaps symbolically portrayed by Kafka in The Trial or The Castle.

[iambiguous]

Nietzsche: The gospels are invaluable as evidence of the corruption that was already persistent within the primitive community. That which Paul, with the cynical logic of a rabbi, later developed to a conclusion was at bottom merely a process of decay that had begun with the death of the Saviour.

These gospels cannot be read too carefully; difficulties lurk behind every word. I confess—I hope it will not be held against me—that it is precisely for this reason that they offer first-rate joy to a psychologist—as the opposite of all merely naive corruption, as refinement par excellence, as an artistic triumph in psychological corruption. The gospels, in fact, stand alone.

The Bible as a whole is not to be compared to them. Here we are among Jews: this is the first thing to be borne in mind if we are not to lose the thread of the matter. This positive genius for conjuring up a delusion of personal "holiness" unmatched anywhere else, either in books or by men; this elevation of fraud in word and attitude to the level of an art—all this is not an accident due to the chance talents of an individual, or to any violation of nature. The thing responsible is race.

So, some comments and then some explanation of *whereI am coming from* in relation to my investigation of Christianity, largely through the Catholic lens, and all of this a) in the social and political context of the Culture Wars, and b) under the influence of René Guénon who pointed out that in *original Catholicism* there were still strong traces of (what he believed to be) genuine metaphysical currents.

As I always tend to do I *went right the the core* when I investigated Catholicism and got the best, the most originally Catholic, the most essential titles, and it was these I read. I even got hold of the original Breviary and other books where the original Christian hymns, in Latin, were translated.

I got hold of the most original and complete prayer books with all the prayers a Catholic would refer to (pre-Vatican ll of course). Everything post-Vatican ll I shunned. One of my favorites, it still is, is A Dictionary of Christian Antiquities (1876-1880). Through it I could see how deeply Christian symbols had penetrated Occidental culture. A far more recent source is the Oxford Companion to Christian Thought. Through it it became clear how profoundly, how inextricably, Christian concepts and ideals have penetrated Occidental (and world) thought.

I am certainly capable of fairly understanding what Nietzsche meant by *corruption*, but I am sure that most people would not understand the reference to the First Century and its *confusion of peoples* and *confusion of ideas* may have meant for Nietzsche. It meant a great deal to Houston Chamberlain though and, as it happens, there is an attempt (it is still going on) to wring out of Christian metaphysics what is indeed corrupt, weakening, false, and *exclusive* in that ugly Jewish-Hebrew sense of condemnatory of all other religious and metaphysical ideas or speculations.

But naturally Nietzsche means something far more evident directly in the Gospel accounts and, then, predominantly in Paul for whom he holds a definite contempt. It is hard to talk about that contempt because it has a great deal to do with a certain duality of position in Nietzsche: on one hand *admiring of Jews* and their strategies and tactics, but also deeply contemptful. Was he an *antisemite*? Overall I would say yes. And the reason is that when once you see that everything in Jewish scripture is an endless set of fabrications which has the sole purpose of setting up Jews as God's chosen directors of the Earth (to be realized when the Jewish Messiah arrives) you see essentially, and unmasked, an incredible script that plays over generations, centuries and indeed millennia. There is nothing like Jewish historical mythology, and it is an extraordinary thing that Jewish identification with the mythology -- the mythology being the existential toolbook -- provides a continual paradigm through which the Plan -- God's Plan for Jews and for the Earth's destiny -- is held to. Some fall away, some remain at the center of it, but it is Jewish Will through centuries and millennia that is, truly, a fabulous and nearly incredible thing.

In order to understand the Jewish situation in Europe in the 19th and 20th centuries, you have to understand how people like Houston Stuart Chamberlain saw 'the Jewish project'. I assume that no one reading here has any idea who HSC is or was. But let's face it: the people who write here have very little *historical perspective* nor any interest in it.

The reason I mention Houston Chamberlain reduces to something rather simple: A will developed, let us call it a counter-will, to what I might also call The Jewish Project in history. Again, no one here knows about these things. No one here understand why it is, continually, that so much of the lines of conflict in our Age arise out of Jewish-Christian will on one side and a nexus of power and ideation that -- how to put this? -- seeks an alternative. So if you reject *the Christian Story* as an enormous, indeed and incredible, fabrication (and a corrupt one on many levels as Nietzsche exclaims with an ever-increasing shrill note) you can do so through a loose, unstructured negation, but you would really have to develop a fully structured, a fully realistic, a fully operate counter-mythological construct to oppose that which you oppose.

So, if you study for example Susannah Heschel's The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany:

Journal of Religion in Europe review:

Susannah Heschel, The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi
Germany (Princeton: Princeton University Press)

Susannah Heschel’s book The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in
Nazi Germany is a detailed study of the “Institute for the Study and Eradication
of Jewish Influence on German Church Life” (Institut zur Erforschung und
Beseitigung des jüdischen Einfl usses auf das deutsche kirchliche Leben), operating in
the Third Reich between 1939 and 1945. With the help of painstaking research
into archives and some interviews with people who still remember those days, this
more or less forgotten institute, its general ideas, its institutional contacts with the
state and with the protestant churches of Germany, and its destiny during the
Third Reich, are thoroughly discussed. The members of the institute, under the
leadership of Walter Grundmann, viewed themselves to be in a “defense war”
against the “satanic powers of world Judaism,” and thought of themselves as tak-
ing part in a cosmic battle where their job was to clean Christianity of Jewish
impurities. The members of the institute belonged to the fraction within the
Protestant churches in Germany known at that time as German Christians
(Deutsche Christen). This fraction strived to harmonize the glad tidings of Jesus
Christ with the message of the Führer. Sometimes these theologians were moti-
vated by pure and simple opportunism, but more often they deeply believed that
once Christianity got rid of the stains put on it by those who had murdered Jesus,
Christianity would appear identical with National Socialism. While they were try-
ing to transform their religion according to the will of the new regime, these
German Christians, however, also had to fight neo-pagan trends among leading
party members—neo-pagans who argued persuasively that Christianity was an
altogether Jewish affair.

If you read her book, and a number of other books that examine what was happening in Europe among wide circles, I assure you that in general there was, and indeed there still is, a concerted effort to *get out from under* an overarching mythology that has at its center the notion of Jewish Destiny (Jewish God as owner of the Earth, of all people, the Universe, of Being and Time, and Destiny) which is, clearly, also extended through Christian mythology. When one recognizes what, in fact, is being talked about, i.e. what is actually being fought over, the entire issue gets really REALLY strange.

You have to read Nietzsche within a far larger context of battle-lines between perceptual and indeed existential systems, and indeed all that we talk about here takes place within that sort of bubble.

Back to Nietzsche:

The whole of Judaism appears in Christianity as the art of concocting holy lies, and there, after many centuries of earnest Jewish training and hard practice of Jewish technic, the business comes to the stage of mastery. The Christian, that ultima ratio of lying, is the Jew all over again—he is threefold the Jew… The underlying will to make use only of such concepts, symbols and attitudes as fit into priestly practice, the instinctive repudiation of every other mode of thought, and every other method of estimating values and utilities—this is not only tradition, it is inheritance: only as an inheritance is it able to operate with the force of nature.

The whole of mankind, even the best minds of the best ages (with one exception, perhaps hardly human—), have permitted themselves to be deceived.

There you have it: the accusation of the Lie. Biblical history, the mythologies therein, their handling by a Priest Class, the threat that if you as a Jew deviate from what God has established for you as that Historical Plan that He will annihilate and torture you in the most wicked of ways

However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.

18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.

20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

Once one has *punctured* this Voice that is portrayed to intone these unreally terrible things, I assure you that the entire issue of the ventriloquized Voice of God suddenly is challenged.

It has continually appeared to me that our own dear Immanuel, in his heart of hearts, wishes to be seen by *Jesus* as out-Jewing the Jew. There is a huge strain of this in modern Evangelical Christianity. To serve the Jew is to serve God! If you do not serve the Jew you put yourself on the side of God's wrath. I am not making this up! It's everywhere.

So then, it becomes imperative to examine the concoction of holy lies. These are -- Nietzsche really plays within transvaluations! -- the most devilish of lied about things.

after many centuries of earnest Jewish training and hard practice of Jewish technic

Take it as you wish to but when you see what is referred to it cannot be merely side-stepped. Jewish mythology, the Jewish explanation of Jewish being as chosen by the world's and the Universe's owner is a pretty intense mythological idea.

And what is that technic? It is the spinning of Story. It has to do with the manipulation of not only what people think but with the very platform of what is perceived and what things mean. What Nietzsche is getting at, I mean really, is a Hebrew skill at manipulating the mind of believing Jews (through a priest class) but how the same technic is used as a far larger social and cultural control (or direction) mechanics.

Was Nietzsche an antisemite? It depends on whether one agrees to see things as he was presenting them. That is when one examines the handling of fantastic narratives touching on metaphysics, on the destiny of the Earth, on the purpose of existence and the Universe. I assure you none of this is *easy material*.

Nietzsche:

The gospels have been read as a book of innocence… surely no small indication of the high skill with which the trick has been done.—Of course, if we could actually see these astounding bigots and bogus saints, even if only for an instant, the farce would come to an end,—and it is precisely because I cannot read a word of theirs without seeing their attitudinizing that I have made an end of them… I simply cannot endure the way they have of rolling up their eyes.

For the majority, happily enough, books are mere literature.—Let us not be led astray: they say "judge not", and yet they condemn to hell whoever stands in their way. In letting God sit in judgment they judge themselves; in glorifying God they glorify themselves; in demanding that every one show the virtues which they themselves happen to be capable of—still more, which they must have in order to remain on top—they assume the grand air of men struggling for virtue, of men engaging in a war that virtue may prevail.

"We live, we die, we sacrifice ourselves for the good" (—"the truth", "the light", "the kingdom of God"): in point of fact, they simply do what they cannot help doing. Forced, like hypocrites, to be sneaky, to hide in corners, to slink along in the shadows, they convert their necessity into a duty: it is on grounds of duty that they account for their lives of humility, and that humility becomes merely one more proof of their piety… Ah, that humble, chaste, charitable brand of fraud!

"Virtue itself shall bear witness for us"… One may read the gospels as books of moral seduction: these petty folks fasten themselves to morality—they know the uses of morality! Morality is the best of all devices for leading mankind by the nose!—The fact is that the conscious conceit of the chosen here disguises itself as modesty: it is in this way that they, the "community", the "good and just", range themselves, once and for always, on one side, the side of "the truth"—and the rest of mankind , "the world", on the other…

In that we observe the most fatal sort of megalomania that the earth has ever seen: little abortions of bigots and liars began to claim exclusive rights in the concepts of "God", "the truth", "the light", "the spirit", "love", "wisdom" and "life", as if these things were synonyms of themselves and thereby they sought to fence themselves off from the "world"; little super-Jews, ripe for some sort of madhouse, turned values upside down in order to meet their notions, just as if the Christian were the meaning, the salt, the standard and even the last judgment of all the rest…

The whole disaster was only made possible by the fact that there already existed in the world a similar megalomania, allied to this one in race, to wit, the Jewish: once a chasm began to yawn between Jews and Judaeo-Christians, the latter had no choice but to employ the self-preservative measures that the Jewish instinct had devised, even against the Jews themselves, whereas the Jews had employed them only against non- Jews. The Christian is simply a Jew of the "reformed" confession.

There is no way to side-step any of this.

So let me ask this question: What happens when the Jew himself sees through the Judeo-Christian Construct? What happens then to that notorious Jewish Will noted by Houston Chamberlain which is so startling, so fear-inspiring, so terrible really, to the Gentile mind, what happens when it undoes itself or sees though itself? What then must it serve if not that Construct I have been alluding to?

And by Gentile mind I mean Anglo-Saxon of European Saxon or if you wish Indo-Aryan mind?

See, this is where the notion of a Perceptual System as a holy concoction begins to show itself as a Trap of the Mind. But more than that it is a vast ideological construct that holds one in its grip. Do you wish to get out of it? If you do you will find yourself in a situation (mental, existential, spiritual) perhaps symbolically portrayed by Kafka in The Trial or the Castle.

Anything here that i should be apprised of?

[Alexis Jacobi]

I'm getting off the ride at this stop.

It is sort of like the Hotel California, Brother Immanuel, you can check-in but checking-out is another thing altogether.

[Gary Childress]

I'm getting off the ride at this stop.

It is sort of like the Hotel California, Brother Immanuel, you can check-in but checking-out is another thing altogether.

What a beautiful version! Done to the tone and rhythm of wrath. I guess I never really understood the music in Chinese restaurants until now. Is there something more festive in her collection that you can share?

[iambiguous]

Okay, IC, the sixth video:

The Fine-Tuning of the Universe
https://youtu.be/EE76nwimuT0

This video basically revolves around what some call the "Goldilocks Universe".

It starts out noting that "the very structure of the universe is determined by these numbers". Numbers depicting the various physical factors that must all come together in order that human beings could exist at all: "the fundamental constants and quantities of the universe".

This part: "Scientists have come to the shocking realization that each of these numbers has been carefully dialed to an astonishingly precise value, a value that falls within an exceedingly narrow life-permitting range."

None of the numbers could be other than what they must be, in other words. Even a "hairsbreadth" difference and we are not here. There would be "no stars, no life, no planets, no chemistry".

Then in regard to things like "gravitational constant", the result of just the teeniest, tiniest of shifts would make life impossible.

But then this part again...

It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the universe.

In other words, there's what science itself still does not understand about the physical universe. But how many of them conclude "therefore it can only be explained by a God, the God, the Christian God."

The narrator throws out things like this...

"Or another example of fine-tuning. If the mass and energy of the early universe were not evenly distributed to an incomprehensible precision of one part in 10 to the 10 to 123rd, the universe would be hostile to life of any kind."

Is this true? Or as with the two videos above pertaining to the second law of thermodynamics, would some in the scientific community beg to differ?

Still, it makes you wonder if God himself had no choice but to create life in accordance with laws of matter beyond His control. Maybe there is a hierarchy of Gods and the Christian God is just somewhere in the middle of them.

Also, this part: why was it necessary for an omnipotent God to create these extraordinary numbers in the first place? To make the chance of human life so staggeringly remote?

Then quotes from those like Stephen Hawkings and David Deutsch backing the narrator up.

Then [of course] this part: "What is the best explanation"?

Three options:

1] physical necessity
2] chance
3] design

Narrator: "How about chance? Did we really, really, really get lucky? No, the probabilities involved are so ridiculously remote as to put fine-tuning well beyond the reach of chance..."

Or maybe it's the multiverse spitting out so many different universes a life-permitting one was bound to happen. Nope, "there's no scientific evidence for the existence of this multiverse. It cannot be detected, observed, measured or proved..."

Now let's think about that...

What else cannot be "detected, observed, measured or proved..."

How about this: the Christian God.

Only with God there's this option: a leap of faith.

Then quotes from Paul Davis and Fred Hoyle that seem to confirm this. And yet these quotes in and of themselves are just intellectual contraptions that in no way are connected to any actual God.

And, again, which God is it?

Back to simply quoting the Christian Bible to "prove" it must be the Christian God:

"The heavens declare the glories of God; The skies proclaim the work of his hands..." King David Psalm 19:1=2

Though, again, as with the previous 5 videos, there is still no proof offered that even if a God, the God does exist and was involved in creating a life-permitting planet Earth, it must be the Christian God and not one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

Then the part I always come back to...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... _eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_cyclones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ore_deaths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

Okay, only the Christian God could pull off the creation of a universe that permits the existence of human life on planet Earth. But why Did his creation have to include all of the above.

How about we ask the folks in Lahaina on the island of Maui.



Anything to add, IC?

[Gary Childress]

I'm getting off the ride at this stop.

It is sort of like the Hotel California, Brother Immanuel, you can check-in but checking-out is another thing altogether.

What a beautiful version! Done to the tone and rhythm of wrath. I guess I never really understood the music in Chinese restaurants until now. Is there something more festive in her collection that you can share?

Amazing!! I just dedicated my first music album to that Chinese Guzhengist! Thank you for the inspiration, AJ!!

https://garyrobertchildress.bandcamp.co ... ythm-wrath

[Alexis Jacobi]

::: removes hat, bows :::

[Gary Childress]

Like pretty much anything else I've done right, it probably won't amount to anything if I can help it. What sane person wants responsibility in this world?

[Harry Baird]

This is all getting back to Henry's point (I think) that you are anthropomorphising the way an animal is interpretting its situation. Sure, the animal may hear squeals of other animals - it does not mean the animal has the capacity to comprehend its happy life in the pasture is about to end.

Animals in their natural environment are regularly confronted with both the prospect and the reality of death. They struggle fiercely to avoid it, and they often protect one another from it. The idea, then, that they lack the capacity to comprehend the end of their lives - particularly when lined up for the slaughter, slipping on the blood of the shrieking victims ahead - is beyond farcical.

[Harry Baird]

Every example you offer can be explained as an observer projecting human characteristics onto non-human behavior.

Clearly, that's not a (causal) explanation of the behaviour in question - it's your assessment of a (causal) explanation of the behaviour in question; one explanation in particular: the sensible, default one that most people accept.

Given that you are pretty sharp as a forum participant, it's highly unlikely that it's because you fail to understand the type of explanation that is being asked of you that you continue to avoid providing one.

Far more likely is that you can't provide one, because you don't have one - at least not a plausible one - and so, instead of offering a constructive defence of your view, you resort to empty sloganeering: "That's anthropomorphising"; "That's projection"; etc.

The choice of rhetoric over substance is, though, a poor one, because, unless you do have something of substance to offer, you've failed my challenge to you on your own terms: to justify your violation of the natural rights of non-human living beings.

What's the causal explanation for a Roomba's behavior as it trundles across the floor?

Obviously, the causal explanation is that the Roomba's behaviour is determined by algorithms programmed into its electronic circuitry by human engineers and software developers. The key difference of course is that nobody's suggesting that Roombas behave in ways indicative of suffering and joy, nor indicative of their having minds.

I thus suggested a parallel (causal) explanation that you might have been expected to use - given your views - for the behaviour in question of non-human living beings: that that behaviour is controlled by algorithms programmed into their biological forms by the deist God in whom you believe so as to mimic beings with minds motivated by suffering and joy (and other emotions).

You rejected that explanation, saying that you preferred a third one.

You still haven't provided it. More than likely, it doesn't even exist.

[henry quirk]

Harry, you believe the chicken is capable of suffering, exhibits suffering, and has a mind of sorts.

I believe the chicken is not capable of suffering, does not exhibit suffering, and is only a mindless meat machine.

You, and others, believe you see the chicken suffering (it acts in ways you say indicate it suffers).

I believe you, and others, misinterpret the chicken's actions. I don't believe you, and others, are assessing accurately.

You would have me agree God built the chicken to mimic suffering.

I will not becuz the chicken is not mimicking suffering; you, and others, are anthropomorphizing it. It's reactions are canned. it does not, cannot, respond. There's no one behind its fowl lil eyes.

You, and others, see what you want to; you are not seein' what's actually there. You overlay personhood on that which is not a person.

[seeds]

It is sort of like the Hotel California, Brother Immanuel, you can check-in but checking-out is another thing altogether.

What a beautiful version! Done to the tone and rhythm of wrath. I guess I never really understood the music in Chinese restaurants until now. Is there something more festive in her collection that you can share?

Amazing!! I just dedicated my first music album to that Chinese Guzhengist! Thank you for the inspiration, AJ!!

https://garyrobertchildress.bandcamp.co ... ythm-wrath

Good on you, Gary.

Channel the energy of your angst into music.

What recording software are you using?

And yes, that rendition of Hotel California by the girl AJ linked to was indeed amazing.

The existence of such beauty and talent almost makes one think that life has some good features, right?
_______