is the Christian concept of the One from a philosophical point of view true?

[Immanuel Can]

I'm missing Agent Smith.

More breaking news.

In a daring, daylight robbery, all the toilets were heisted from the main offices of Scotland Yard.

Police say they have nothing to go on.

[bahman]

From what I recall from my discussion with Catholics in their forum, that is Jesus's soul that is eternal.

[Janoah]

It's whether the Torah itself changes.

The text of the Torah has long been formed and does not change.


***, or if it's telling lies***.

The allegory is not a lie.
Jesus told the fishermen stories to the fishermen.
But the narrator of the tales is not called a liar.


***But Torah claims that God very definitely takes particular actions***

'force a fool to pray and he will smash his forehead against the ground'
It is the same with taking literally what should not be taken literally.


***What part of that would imply that God was not involved in the Exodus miracles?***

Try to formulate your idea of God in scientific language.

[Immanuel Can]

It's whether the Torah itself changes.

The text of the Torah has long been formed and does not change.


***, or if it's telling lies***.

The allegory is not a lie.

Quote so. But allegories are marked as such by their structure. They look quite different from factual claims...unless you think Torah also failed to do that job adequately, and allowed confusion on that where none should exist.

***But Torah claims that God very definitely takes particular actions***

'force a fool to pray and he will smash his forehead against the ground'
It is the same with taking literally what should not be taken literally.

Let's see what you choose.

Was there an Abraham who was blessed by God, or is he just an allegory? Is Israel actually chosen people, or is that just allegory? Was there an actual "Ten Sayings" or "Ten Commandments," or was that an allegory? Is Jerusalem special, relative to any other locale...or is that just an allegory? Is HaShem God, or do you regard Him as a metaphor for something else, like Baal, or Molech, Allah, or Vishnu, or Zeus, or human longing for transcendence?

***What part of that would imply that God was not involved in the Exodus miracles?***

Try to formulate your idea of God in scientific language.

Actually, there isn't anything contrary to science about the Exodus miracles. That's not because there's an alternate, Materialist explanation for, say, the gnats, the frogs, the sudden death of the first-born or the parting of the Red Sea -- it's because miracles inherently do not contradict science at all. Surprise, surprise.

Why do they not contradict science? Because they depend on it. If science did not work, we'd never be able to detect a miracle at all.

Let me explain that in detail, if I may.

Science is based on the assumption of physical regularities we call "laws," (though the metaphor often confuses our thinking on this point). What we call a "scientific law" is merely our observation of a regularity in nature -- it's not any kind of imperative. All it really means is, "As we observe things, so long as nothing intervenes, they seem to follow this pattern of cause and effect." So fair enough.

But a "miracle," by definition, is not a scientific regularity. It's an interruption to scientific regularities, made by the Supreme Being. If it's the product of natural regularities, then the even is, by definition, no "miracle" at all.

So if you were to say to Moses, "You're lying about the Red Sea: it can never have parted, because the laws of hydrodynamics make that impossible," then Moses' response to you is going to be something like, "That's absurd; I called it a 'miracle' because everbody knows full well how water usually behaves, and I recognized this as a true 'miracle' because this wasn't that!"

After the Red Sea parted, things went back to exactly the way they'd always been. And if they hadn't, nobody would have believed the Red Sea crossing was a miracle at all: they'd simply have said, "Look: we have something new to add to our laws of hydrodynamics -- water can stand up in walls!"

Is that what happened? Clearly not. So whatever convinced the early Israelites that they had been miraculously rescued by God, it was not because they were credulous, supersititious fools, but because every one of them knew full well how water normally behaves, and that it can't stand up in walls...and yet it did...hence, it must have been a miracle.

If you had been there, with all your knowledge of science, you'd have come to exactly the same conclusion that they did, I suspect.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Once it arrives to the understanding in the mind that Jewishness, and the Jewish identification as "God's chosen" is a tremendous phantasy, and that Jews have been the victims of it, and still are the victims of it, everything suddenly changes. The entire *construct* falls to the ground. It can no longer *function*. What then for *Jewish identity*?

We know that the Haredim and genuinely Orthodox Jews still invest in the Construct. The greater the orthodoxy the more intense the identification. But the more curious thing is to consider those forms of Jewishness that are tending in the secular direction.

That is, if the fundamental belief is in a special Jewish destiny, overseen by the God that created, supervises, and ultimately owns the Earth, all the people in it, and Destiny itself (!) is seen as a fabrication of none other than man himself -- I assure you that this identity becomes really really problematic. On what basis then, on what platform, is Jewishness maintained then?

It is a very curious issue. Think about it. The *engine* as it were of genuine Hebrew identity is constructed by the really hardcore and genuine Orthodox believer. Jewish identity, and Jewish destiny, are not allegories they are hard, concrete realities. So for the belief to maintain itself the original engine of belief (those who believe the essential story) has to be revivified.

Because in secularized Jewishness and secularized Judaism there is simply not a substantial foundation to the belief in chosenness, in a specific mission, and in Jewish destiny. What does one believe then? One believes in shadows of beliefs that once were but are no longer.

Jewish identity has always been an incredible burden to Jews, but it is one taken on to the degree that one beliefs the core mythology. If one does not *really* believe it one holds to a sort of un-genuine identification. I find that all the Jews I grew up with, and any Jew that I now know, including family, do not really believe in the core mythology. And yet they hold to forms of *Jewish identity* for other reasons. When those reasons are examined the whole things gets even more bizarre.

Note that I am now working on a new enlightening chapter of The Course that deals on issues of identity. The sign-up fee is now $2,899.00 (sorry, inflation!) but I guarantee you will benefit far in excess of a slight debit true knowledge entails.

Make the sacrifice, cheapskate!

[Alexis Jacobi]

Actually, there isn't anything contrary to science about the Exodus miracles. That's not because there's an alternate, Materialist explanation for, say, the gnats, the frogs, the sudden death of the first-born or the parting of the Red Sea -- it's because miracles inherently do not contradict science at all. Surprise, surprise.

Well, you heard it here first, folks!

It is not so much what astounding thing is believed — the world is full of them — but more the structure of the argument that is employed to bolster the belief.

[attofishpi]

Actually, there isn't anything contrary to science about the Exodus miracles. That's not because there's an alternate, Materialist explanation for, say, the gnats, the frogs, the sudden death of the first-born or the parting of the Red Sea -- it's because miracles inherently do not contradict science at all. Surprise, surprise.

Well, you heard it here first, folks!

It is not so much what astounding thing is believed — the world is full of them — but more the structure of the argument that is employed to bolster the belief.

From my personal experience, indeed empirical observation of what is possible from this God entity - I don't doubt the parting of the Red Sea.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Can you present your case, Atto, the case you have in mind, and create a supporting argument for your view that will help your readers to understand (what I gather to be) the miracles you experienced ...

... and then can you clearly explain how those miracles are (I gather) minor-level miracles of the same class as the larger Miracle of God's intervention in Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea in the Exodus story?

[Gary Childress]

I'm missing Agent Smith.

More breaking news.

In a daring, daylight robbery, all the toilets were heisted from the main offices of Scotland Yard.

Police say they have nothing to go on.

I knew I could count on Agent Smith!!! A man after my own heart!

[Gary Childress]

Make the sacrifice, cheapskate!

Perhaps you might buy less expensive dinnerware and we won't have to "sacrifice" for you? Or perhaps make the object of esteem yourself, seek employment in an industry that produces fine dinnerware. I suggest marketing and sales might be a good fit for you. It also usually pays better than jobs at the 'production' level. Wish I could be of more help. I'd chip in $50 to you right now if I knew a safe and trustworthy way to get it to you. So I hope the advice will help in its place.

¯\_(*_*)_/¯

[Alexis Jacobi]

…

$500.00 is generally the minimum donation.

Thank you for the thought Gary.

[I will be sending transcendentally an additional powerful meds-blessing. No cost associated. Enjoy!]

[seeds]

Can you present your case, Atto, the case you have in mind, and create a supporting argument for your view that will help your readers to understand (what I gather to be) the miracles you experienced ...

... and then can you clearly explain how those miracles are (I gather) minor-level miracles of the same class as the larger Miracle of God's intervention in Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea in the Exodus story?

Let's take a look at where that particular myth meets matter.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Red Sea is a...

...narrow strip of water extending southeastward from Suez, Egypt, for about 1,200 miles (1,930 km) to the Bab el-Mandeb Strait, which connects with the Gulf of Aden and thence with the Arabian Sea....The sea separates the coasts of Egypt, Sudan, and Eritrea to the west from those of Saudi Arabia and Yemen to the east. Its maximum width is 190 miles, its greatest depth 9,974 feet (3,040 metres), and its area approximately 174,000 square miles (450,000 square km)...

In contrast, Lake Michigan is only 22,300 square miles, or approximately one eighth the size of the Red Sea.

Further Googling found the Red Sea's minimum width to be approximately 16 miles (26 km).

Now, with the above in mind, according to our omniscient oracle Google, it would take most people anywhere from 3-5 hours to walk 16 miles.

So then, if we took the best-case scenario, then after witnessing a mere mortal call upon God in such a way that immediately caused these real physical waters to actually part and make a 16-mile-long pathway at the narrowest portion of the Red Sea,...



...then we would have to assume that in approximately 3 hours, 3 million humans walked between two separated walls of water that were almost two miles high at various points of which after reaching the other side, the mortal man once again called upon God to return the sea to normal, thus drowning Pharoah's pursuing army.

Yet, YET, with such an utterly mind-blowing and indelible event permanently registered in their minds, rather than relying on and trusting the words of the man (Moses) who orchestrated the most amazing miracle ever witnessed by any humans in all of history,...

...they nevertheless eventually reverted back to their old pagan nonsense and began worshiping a puny little statue of a golden calf that couldn't even part the hair on their heads or the crack of their butts, let alone a vast roiling sea of wibbly wobbly water.

And that, in itself, is almost as absurd as the actual myth of the parting of the Red Sea.

I rest my case.
_______

[Alexis Jacobi]

Immanuel, Immanuel, do you not see what we are up against when we encounter you? confront you? have to process what we are to take you as? You are problem after problem stacked six ways to Sunday — or Friday evening when “three stars” become visible.

The “argument” that The Parting happened in accord with science-principles indicates a mushy brain. Belief cycles backward, perversely, and causes the rationalizing mind to fabricate an argument that quells genuine thought.

At every turn you are an atheist’s best teacher! You destroy the possibility of inculcating “faith” in all who confront you.

If you are both religious fanatic / genuine conservative, but yet I must reject you because you are a LUNATIC, how can I still constructively network with you (a giant you-plural) to resist Critical Theory wokism which is really a bane?

We seem to be in a time of iridescence of madness all across the psychological skies. One has to guess as to what “normal” could be, should be, is!

You are not on that list, Bro!

[attofishpi]

Can you present your case, Atto, the case you have in mind, and create a supporting argument for your view that will help your readers to understand (what I gather to be) the miracles you experienced ...

... and then can you clearly explain how those miracles are (I gather) minor-level miracles of the same class as the larger Miracle of God's intervention in Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea in the Exodus story?

Unplug your tongue from your cheek Jacobi! All along you have insisted that my experiences should not be part of any philosophical discussion.
Nonetheless, since I am creating a word document with the experiences that stand out - have some:-

I posted this one (one of countless 'miracles') some years ago. (This was in a period where God\sage are 'screwing' with me and my reality - usually lasts for 3 months)
In 2017 I was working for NEC in the city. My shift was very early and it was the middle of winter, it was dark and raining very heavily.
I got to my bus stop which had a small shelter and noticed a massive pool of water from the kerb to near the middle of the two lane road. A hill lead down to where I stood and I saw a very large truck barrelling its way down the road in the lane next to the kerb. I thought to myself, well I am going to get even more drenched now!
I watched the truck as it approached at speed, but the driver moved the truck over to straddle the two lanes and completely avoided the puddle. I thought what a decent bloke (or lass) and put my thumb up in case he\she checked the rear mirror).
Straight away, I turned to see another truck, as large as the first again barrelling down the hill in the kerb lane. I thought to myself, odds of this one doing the right thing by me are rather slim, so I turned my back to it and waited for the spray. I waited, waited...then turned to look - there was no truck, it had disappeared!
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Around 2002 I was doing an internet tech support job - I had crossed the line - I was in one of the 3 month stints that this entity had me in what I can only describe as HELL, God was doing EVIL to me - very hard to LIVE.
When I got home and laid upon the couch, extremely vexed about what I had just endured in the office (another story) - as I lay there - the word "CONFESS" flashed across my retina in bright neon.
So there I am thinking - since I was brought up through a Catholic school system, maybe this confession thing is actually a requirement for me. The next day in the office, HELL was on, people calling out random nasty comments, if I simply stated in my mind "Fuck off God" - immediately someone would yell out "Fuck off" - of course nobody else could hear this - it was ALL in my dimension. (I have read plenty of books on physics and so understood the plausible nature of what this entity could do - IF - it is running\generating things from beyond sub-atomic reality.

1. When I considered I should go to Church that evening, and actually do this 'confess' thing, the very next customer when I asked for his username stated it is:- "mad_if_you_dont" --- now yes, that is not a normal internet username.

2. Shortly after (point 1) In a cyberpunk novel I was writing a character called Eli never knew when he was in the real world or the virtual world and extortionists that had kidnapped him were torturing him in the virtual (as God was doing to me) - then the username "hows_eli" was issued by a customer.

3. Later in the day - at the time we were required to support billing enquires, and an old legacy system that was crap could get rather complicated in certain situations. I looked at all the transactions, cross checking late fees, excess data charges and it appeared to conflict with what the customer was telling me. The customer had given me the username "coins_nah" - of course, I thought to myself this is another strange bloody username. Anyway, I went to talk to my manager to see if she could make head to tail of it (no pun intended)...her entire desk was covered in coins..maybe for the social club she was counting out, dunno, but I found it rather funny when she asked for the username.
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1997 - When God first "introduced" itself to me.

Words would be called out, in a broken fashion when I was at work or walking through the city - it started me on the trek of delving into the English language with certain words, homophones, reversals - a man's best friend is a DOG - at the time GOD was my worst enemy - seems HELL is where it got me to comprehend its existence..

One evening at home I wrote the last sentence of the Lord's prayer down:- Deliver us from evil.
I reversed it:- Live morf su reviled
I realised phonetically it sounds like "LIVE MORPH SOON REVEALED".

The next day after I completed my morning job (I actually had 3 part time jobs during the recession) I made my way through a carpark where I was running late for my second job. I saw an Aboriginal lad wearing a hoodie, and rather rough looking in general - he was walking towards me to my left.
When he was level with me, I glanced across my shoulder to look at him, now he had no hoodie, he was taller and now middle-aged, still Aboriginal but generally looked more respectfully dressed. I glanced again, perplexed - now he was walking away behind me, he was an old grey haired white skinned man, hobbling away with a walking stick.
I was shocked to say the least - I had seen the 'morph'. I walked around a building and there was a man sat on a bench staring at me and grinning while rubbing his nose - "He knows" <<--- that was called out at me around the city by random people (of course it wasnt them, it was a dimensional God thang) - he know - nose...
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So there you go Jacobi - this world we live in as far as I am concerned is a VIRTUAL world at the behest of this God entity. Moses didn't separate any water, but it is totally plausible that God did.
God operates at the most fundamental level, at the backbone to what we perceive as reality - REAL_IT_Y?

[Alexis Jacobi]

OK, OK, that validates The Parting of the Red Sea! How could I have been so obtuse!