Liminal places

[Age]

Well people do seem to be territorial, as is suggested by the number of gardens with fences, walls, or hedges round them.

I would NEVER refute that some 'people' do SEEM to be 'territorial'. Just like I would NEVER refute that the sun does SEEM to be revolving around the earth. BUT, I like to TEST, FIRST, EVERY 'hypothesis', or CLAIM, made.

Therefore, it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that the impulse to separate one's own property from its surroundings with some sort of a border is intrinsic to human nature.

LOL

So, if 'you', older human beings ONLY, who have been separating the EARTH, itself, into fenced, walled, or hedged off AREAS, while CLAIMING, 'this is MY OWN property', AND who have been doing 'this behavior', for relatively a nothing amount period of time, ONLY, THEN somehow MAKES and MEANS that 'this LEARNED behavior' is, LAUGHABLY, 'intrinsic to human nature', then HOW and WHY is 'this behavior' 'intrinsic to human nature' AND what IS 'human nature', EXACTLY, anyway?

I'm not saying that is the case, just that it seems to be the case,

GREAT.

Adult human beings eat with instruments or tools AS WELL. So, is 'this behavior' 'intrinsic to human nature' ALSO?

If no, then WHY NOT?

But if yes, then WHY?

but if you are saying it isn't the case, I think you should provide some form of supporting evidence.

Just LOOK AT the ACTUAL 'proof', FROM human history, and to do so you just need to answer the QUESTIONS I ASK here, OPENLY, and Honestly.

WHEN 'you' came out of a human body was there ANY INKLING to BE 'territorial', of ANY 'thing'?

WHEN human beings evolved into being, some 30,000 years ago, 300,000 years ago, or 3 million years ago, or ANY other 'time period', were 'they' then dividing, or separating, and CLAIMING 'ownership', of ANY 'thing'? Or, in other words, were 'they' being 'territorial'?

Or, were 'they', just like the new born human being just living WITH Nature, and the Universe, Itself?

Or if you don't want to bother with evidence,

LOOK, for EVERY 'thing' I SAY and CLAIM here, in this forum, I WILL USE 'proof', INSTEAD, and NOT just, REALLY USELESS, 'evidence'.

'Evidence' can be 'USED' to support just about ANY VIEW, ASSUMPTION or BELIEF. Whereas, 'proof' IS IRREFUTABLE, and thus WHY I CHOOSE to LOOK AT and USE 'proof' INSTEAD, and ONLY.

Unlike 'you', adult human beings, I do NOT have BELIEFS, and then go LOOKING FOR 'evidence', for THOSE BELIEFS. INSTEAD, I REMAIN OPEN, ALLOWING 'proof', or 'Facts', to SHOW themselves.

you could just leave it to be assumed that you are merely expressing an opinion, rather than stating a fact.

As I continually SAY, you are ABSOLUTELY FREE to ASSUME absolutely ANY 'thing' you like. I, however, prefer to NOT ASSUME absolutely ANY 'thing' AT ALL.

I think it is very important to have CLARITY on such matters.

So WHY THEN did you ASSUME some 'thing' was true here, BEFORE you SOUGHT OUT CLARITY, FIRST?

I don't have the time to respond to this point by point, I'm afraid; I'm 68 years old.

Almost every bit of land on the planet is claimed by someone, and has a border of some sort, even if only notionally,

Yes, MAYBE SO in the year sometimes known as 2023, by some.

But was 'land' 'claimed by someone' ALWAYS a phenomena SINCE human beings have existed?

And, do new born human babies 'claim' 'things'?

Also, you do NOT have to respond to EVERY 'thing' I wrote, point by point, but just ANSWERING the VERY SIMPLE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed, and ASKED to you, WOULD speed the process up to A CONCLUSION, which it is 'you' who is LOOKING FOR and SEEKING here.

so your claim that to take possession of territory and partition it is not part of natural human behaviour doesn't have much credibility.

WHEN, and IF, you, or ANY one "ELSE" REALLY WANTS TO LOOK and DELVE INTO 'this', THEN what WILL and DOES COME-TO-LIGHT is that 'in the beginning' human beings, individually and collectively, did NOT 'take possession of territory', and did NOT even WANT 'territory'. BUT, along the way, 'you', human beings, have BECOME GREEDY, SELFISH, and thus 'now', in the days when this is being written, WANT 'territory', and to 'take possession' OF 'territory', and 'things'.

ALSO, and LOL, I have NEVER EVER CLAIMED that 'taking possession of territory' and the 'partitioning of territory' is not part of 'natural human BEHAVIOR'.

LEARNING HOW 'to behave', AND, HOW 'to NOT behave', IS a VERY 'natural part of being human'.

BUT, 'being TERRITORIAL' IS NOT an 'innate', NOR 'natural instinct' of the 'human being'.

BECOMING 'territorial', however, was LEARNED, along the way. And, 'being territorial' and 'possessiveness' has BECOME VERY POPULAR among 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, as can be OBVIOUSLY VERY CLEARLY SEEN and OBSERVED, I will add.

So, to reiterate, 'the behavior' of 'being territorial' and 'possessive', which IS A VERY COMMON 'behavior', in the days when this is being written, CLEARLY HAPPENS and OCCURS. BUT 'this' does NOT mean that 'being this way' is a natural or innate part of the human being.

As I questioned you BEFORE, 'you', adult human beings, ALSO use knives, forks, and spoons, for example, to eat. So, does this MEAN that 'this particular behavior' is what 'you', human beings NATURALLY ARE, EXACTLY?

Now, if ANY one WANTS to DELVE INTO 'this' FULLY, THEN there is FAR, FAR MORE to be LEARNED, and UN/DISCOVERED here.

It seems more like something that you would like to think true, than something that actually is true.

But what you ARE ASSUMING and/or BELIEVING 'true' here is NOT some 'thing', which you would like to think is true, BUT is some 'thing' that IS ACTUALLY true, right?

IF you EVER ANSWER the question, 'What were you BORN WANTING TO 'possess', 'own', or CLAIM 'territory OVER'? THEN we WILL HAVE some 'thing' to LOOK AT and DISCUSS in your apparent BELIEF that 'you', human beings, ARE so-called 'territorial creatures'.

Until then, there is NO ACTUAL 'proof' that 'you', human beings, INNATELY ARE ACTUAL 'territorial creatures'. Surely the ACTUAL PROOF that 'you', human beings, have been WALKING the earth, AND living WITH the earth, for MANY, MANY millennia, WITHOUT WANTING 'territory', BEFORE 'you' CHANGED 'your ways', and starting BECOMING GREEDY and SELFISH, and thus by BEING GREEDY and SELFISH 'you', older ones, were/are TEACHING younger ones to DO And BE the EXACT SAME, SAYS a LOT ABOUT what IS ACTUALLY LEARNED 'behavior' FROM what IS ACTUALLY 'innate' or 'Truly NATURAL' to BEING a 'human being'?

[Maia]

It is more likely they built the cemetery wall much more recently and used the visible sarcophagus as a obvious boundary point for the wall. Good chance many are buried outside the wall in now unmarked Graves.

There are not that many boundary temples I'm aware of. In general yould use the Rajamandala and topography for determining the center of gravity of neighboring polities and then the borders that can be held. It's a precise science, not a ritual. Temples for the in-between spaces usually are not a thing, customs and guards are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajamandala

It's possible, but if I remember rightly, there's a steep drop on the other side of the wall, like a cliff, perhaps.

[Constantine]

Then the explanation of the placement of the sarcophagus likely is that's the spot that was then left when it was placed. Place was otherwise full.

[Maia]

Then the explanation of the placement of the sarcophagus likely is that's the spot that was then left when it was placed. Place was otherwise full.

Maybe. More work needs to be done there.

[Dontaskme]

[Harbal]

I would NEVER refute that some 'people' do SEEM to be 'territorial'. Just like I would NEVER refute that the sun does SEEM to be revolving around the earth. BUT, I like to TEST, FIRST, EVERY 'hypothesis', or CLAIM, made.



LOL

So, if 'you', older human beings ONLY, who have been separating the EARTH, itself, into fenced, walled, or hedged off AREAS, while CLAIMING, 'this is MY OWN property', AND who have been doing 'this behavior', for relatively a nothing amount period of time, ONLY, THEN somehow MAKES and MEANS that 'this LEARNED behavior' is, LAUGHABLY, 'intrinsic to human nature', then HOW and WHY is 'this behavior' 'intrinsic to human nature' AND what IS 'human nature', EXACTLY, anyway?



GREAT.

Adult human beings eat with instruments or tools AS WELL. So, is 'this behavior' 'intrinsic to human nature' ALSO?

If no, then WHY NOT?

But if yes, then WHY?



Just LOOK AT the ACTUAL 'proof', FROM human history, and to do so you just need to answer the QUESTIONS I ASK here, OPENLY, and Honestly.

WHEN 'you' came out of a human body was there ANY INKLING to BE 'territorial', of ANY 'thing'?

WHEN human beings evolved into being, some 30,000 years ago, 300,000 years ago, or 3 million years ago, or ANY other 'time period', were 'they' then dividing, or separating, and CLAIMING 'ownership', of ANY 'thing'? Or, in other words, were 'they' being 'territorial'?

Or, were 'they', just like the new born human being just living WITH Nature, and the Universe, Itself?



LOOK, for EVERY 'thing' I SAY and CLAIM here, in this forum, I WILL USE 'proof', INSTEAD, and NOT just, REALLY USELESS, 'evidence'.

'Evidence' can be 'USED' to support just about ANY VIEW, ASSUMPTION or BELIEF. Whereas, 'proof' IS IRREFUTABLE, and thus WHY I CHOOSE to LOOK AT and USE 'proof' INSTEAD, and ONLY.

Unlike 'you', adult human beings, I do NOT have BELIEFS, and then go LOOKING FOR 'evidence', for THOSE BELIEFS. INSTEAD, I REMAIN OPEN, ALLOWING 'proof', or 'Facts', to SHOW themselves.



As I continually SAY, you are ABSOLUTELY FREE to ASSUME absolutely ANY 'thing' you like. I, however, prefer to NOT ASSUME absolutely ANY 'thing' AT ALL.


So WHY THEN did you ASSUME some 'thing' was true here, BEFORE you SOUGHT OUT CLARITY, FIRST?

I don't have the time to respond to this point by point, I'm afraid; I'm 68 years old.

Almost every bit of land on the planet is claimed by someone, and has a border of some sort, even if only notionally,

Yes, MAYBE SO in the year sometimes known as 2023, by some.

But was 'land' 'claimed by someone' ALWAYS a phenomena SINCE human beings have existed?

And, do new born human babies 'claim' 'things'?

Also, you do NOT have to respond to EVERY 'thing' I wrote, point by point, but just ANSWERING the VERY SIMPLE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed, and ASKED to you, WOULD speed the process up to A CONCLUSION, which it is 'you' who is LOOKING FOR and SEEKING here.

so your claim that to take possession of territory and partition it is not part of natural human behaviour doesn't have much credibility.

WHEN, and IF, you, or ANY one "ELSE" REALLY WANTS TO LOOK and DELVE INTO 'this', THEN what WILL and DOES COME-TO-LIGHT is that 'in the beginning' human beings, individually and collectively, did NOT 'take possession of territory', and did NOT even WANT 'territory'. BUT, along the way, 'you', human beings, have BECOME GREEDY, SELFISH, and thus 'now', in the days when this is being written, WANT 'territory', and to 'take possession' OF 'territory', and 'things'.

ALSO, and LOL, I have NEVER EVER CLAIMED that 'taking possession of territory' and the 'partitioning of territory' is not part of 'natural human BEHAVIOR'.

LEARNING HOW 'to behave', AND, HOW 'to NOT behave', IS a VERY 'natural part of being human'.

BUT, 'being TERRITORIAL' IS NOT an 'innate', NOR 'natural instinct' of the 'human being'.

BECOMING 'territorial', however, was LEARNED, along the way. And, 'being territorial' and 'possessiveness' has BECOME VERY POPULAR among 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, as can be OBVIOUSLY VERY CLEARLY SEEN and OBSERVED, I will add.

So, to reiterate, 'the behavior' of 'being territorial' and 'possessive', which IS A VERY COMMON 'behavior', in the days when this is being written, CLEARLY HAPPENS and OCCURS. BUT 'this' does NOT mean that 'being this way' is a natural or innate part of the human being.

As I questioned you BEFORE, 'you', adult human beings, ALSO use knives, forks, and spoons, for example, to eat. So, does this MEAN that 'this particular behavior' is what 'you', human beings NATURALLY ARE, EXACTLY?

Now, if ANY one WANTS to DELVE INTO 'this' FULLY, THEN there is FAR, FAR MORE to be LEARNED, and UN/DISCOVERED here.

It seems more like something that you would like to think true, than something that actually is true.

But what you ARE ASSUMING and/or BELIEVING 'true' here is NOT some 'thing', which you would like to think is true, BUT is some 'thing' that IS ACTUALLY true, right?

IF you EVER ANSWER the question, 'What were you BORN WANTING TO 'possess', 'own', or CLAIM 'territory OVER'? THEN we WILL HAVE some 'thing' to LOOK AT and DISCUSS in your apparent BELIEF that 'you', human beings, ARE so-called 'territorial creatures'.

Until then, there is NO ACTUAL 'proof' that 'you', human beings, INNATELY ARE ACTUAL 'territorial creatures'. Surely the ACTUAL PROOF that 'you', human beings, have been WALKING the earth, AND living WITH the earth, for MANY, MANY millennia, WITHOUT WANTING 'territory', BEFORE 'you' CHANGED 'your ways', and starting BECOMING GREEDY and SELFISH, and thus by BEING GREEDY and SELFISH 'you', older ones, were/are TEACHING younger ones to DO And BE the EXACT SAME, SAYS a LOT ABOUT what IS ACTUALLY LEARNED 'behavior' FROM what IS ACTUALLY 'innate' or 'Truly NATURAL' to BEING a 'human being'?

I think you are wrong.

[Maia]

Description, please?

[Dontaskme]

Description, please?

Alien spacecraft equipped with satellites and telescope flying through empty space notices another planet in the distance.
A ''Thought Bubble'' from within the alien spacecraft, echoes across empty space exclaiming .. ( WoW! Another Planet like Earth! )


The other earth like planet in the distance apart from the alien spacecraft responds via it's own ''Thought Bubble'' exclaiming ..( That's It.. We're building a wall!! )

.

[Maia]

Description, please?

Alien spacecraft equipped with satellites and telescope flying through empty space notices another planet in the distance.
A ''Thought Bubble'' from within the alien spacecraft, echoes across empty space exclaiming .. ( WoW! Another Planet like Earth! )


The other earth like planet in the distance apart from the alien spacecraft responds via it's own ''Thought Bubble'' exclaiming ..( That's It.. We're building a wall!! )

.

Thanks!

[Wizard22]

The word 'it' here could be implying that there IS some 'thing', of which 'ownership' would be possible.

If 'this' is what 'you' are implying here "wizard22", then HOW COULD an 'animal' 'own' some 'thing', EXACTLY?

Because the stomach of an animal is within its own body and not another's body.

Duh? Isn't this obvious, Age??

[Age]

I don't have the time to respond to this point by point, I'm afraid; I'm 68 years old.

Almost every bit of land on the planet is claimed by someone, and has a border of some sort, even if only notionally,

Yes, MAYBE SO in the year sometimes known as 2023, by some.

But was 'land' 'claimed by someone' ALWAYS a phenomena SINCE human beings have existed?

And, do new born human babies 'claim' 'things'?

Also, you do NOT have to respond to EVERY 'thing' I wrote, point by point, but just ANSWERING the VERY SIMPLE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed, and ASKED to you, WOULD speed the process up to A CONCLUSION, which it is 'you' who is LOOKING FOR and SEEKING here.

so your claim that to take possession of territory and partition it is not part of natural human behaviour doesn't have much credibility.

WHEN, and IF, you, or ANY one "ELSE" REALLY WANTS TO LOOK and DELVE INTO 'this', THEN what WILL and DOES COME-TO-LIGHT is that 'in the beginning' human beings, individually and collectively, did NOT 'take possession of territory', and did NOT even WANT 'territory'. BUT, along the way, 'you', human beings, have BECOME GREEDY, SELFISH, and thus 'now', in the days when this is being written, WANT 'territory', and to 'take possession' OF 'territory', and 'things'.

ALSO, and LOL, I have NEVER EVER CLAIMED that 'taking possession of territory' and the 'partitioning of territory' is not part of 'natural human BEHAVIOR'.

LEARNING HOW 'to behave', AND, HOW 'to NOT behave', IS a VERY 'natural part of being human'.

BUT, 'being TERRITORIAL' IS NOT an 'innate', NOR 'natural instinct' of the 'human being'.

BECOMING 'territorial', however, was LEARNED, along the way. And, 'being territorial' and 'possessiveness' has BECOME VERY POPULAR among 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, as can be OBVIOUSLY VERY CLEARLY SEEN and OBSERVED, I will add.

So, to reiterate, 'the behavior' of 'being territorial' and 'possessive', which IS A VERY COMMON 'behavior', in the days when this is being written, CLEARLY HAPPENS and OCCURS. BUT 'this' does NOT mean that 'being this way' is a natural or innate part of the human being.

As I questioned you BEFORE, 'you', adult human beings, ALSO use knives, forks, and spoons, for example, to eat. So, does this MEAN that 'this particular behavior' is what 'you', human beings NATURALLY ARE, EXACTLY?

Now, if ANY one WANTS to DELVE INTO 'this' FULLY, THEN there is FAR, FAR MORE to be LEARNED, and UN/DISCOVERED here.

It seems more like something that you would like to think true, than something that actually is true.

But what you ARE ASSUMING and/or BELIEVING 'true' here is NOT some 'thing', which you would like to think is true, BUT is some 'thing' that IS ACTUALLY true, right?

IF you EVER ANSWER the question, 'What were you BORN WANTING TO 'possess', 'own', or CLAIM 'territory OVER'? THEN we WILL HAVE some 'thing' to LOOK AT and DISCUSS in your apparent BELIEF that 'you', human beings, ARE so-called 'territorial creatures'.

Until then, there is NO ACTUAL 'proof' that 'you', human beings, INNATELY ARE ACTUAL 'territorial creatures'. Surely the ACTUAL PROOF that 'you', human beings, have been WALKING the earth, AND living WITH the earth, for MANY, MANY millennia, WITHOUT WANTING 'territory', BEFORE 'you' CHANGED 'your ways', and starting BECOMING GREEDY and SELFISH, and thus by BEING GREEDY and SELFISH 'you', older ones, were/are TEACHING younger ones to DO And BE the EXACT SAME, SAYS a LOT ABOUT what IS ACTUALLY LEARNED 'behavior' FROM what IS ACTUALLY 'innate' or 'Truly NATURAL' to BEING a 'human being'?

I think you are wrong.

Okay, fair enough.

Do you think I am wrong in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

And, do you have any proof, or even any evidence, for what it is, EXACTLY, which you think I am wrong about?

[Age]

The word 'it' here could be implying that there IS some 'thing', of which 'ownership' would be possible.

If 'this' is what 'you' are implying here "wizard22", then HOW COULD an 'animal' 'own' some 'thing', EXACTLY?

Because the stomach of an animal is within its own body and not another's body.

Duh? Isn't this obvious, Age??

you appear to have completely and utterly MISSED or MISUNDERSTOOD my QUESTION here.

I WAS and AM ASKING, How could an animal 'own' ANY 'thing'?

you SAY that the stomach of an animal is within 'its' 'own body'. Now, who and/or what IS 'the thing', EXACTLY, which HAS 'its own body'?

Let us SEE if you CAN comprehend and understand the ACTUAL QUESTION this time.

[Constantine]

I looked the place up. The monolith is the most photographed. The sarcophagus and wall is not shown at all, and it appears to lack the sort of elevation that is measurable by something like Google maps would show, and lack the motivation to geolocate it at 5 AM in the morning to see if a slope does exist.

I'm doubting the rock was worshipped. Druids liked to kidnap people and murder them- ye olde triple death. Was reading about them murdering Merlin the other day. I'm guessing tall pointy stone more likely for astronomical use.

https://d.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/tex ... -kentigern

[Wizard22]

you appear to have completely and utterly MISSED or MISUNDERSTOOD my QUESTION here.

I WAS and AM ASKING, How could an animal 'own' ANY 'thing'?

you SAY that the stomach of an animal is within 'its' 'own body'. Now, who and/or what IS 'the thing', EXACTLY, which HAS 'its own body'?

Let us SEE if you CAN comprehend and understand the ACTUAL QUESTION this time.

I tHiNk YoU mIsUnDeRsToOd My AnSwEr HeRe.

Ownership = Possession = Of your own body

If you do not 'own' your own body, then you own nothing at all, and you have no Self.

[Maia]

I looked the place up. The monolith is the most photographed. The sarcophagus and wall is not shown at all, and it appears to lack the sort of elevation that is measurable by something like Google maps would show, and lack the motivation to geolocate it at 5 AM in the morning to see if a slope does exist.

I'm doubting the rock was worshipped. Druids liked to kidnap people and murder them- ye olde triple death. Was reading about them murdering Merlin the other day. I'm guessing tall pointy stone more likely for astronomical use.

https://d.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/tex ... -kentigern

It's in the corner of the churchyard, if that helps.

The stone predates the Druids by about two thousand years, but yes, it probably has an astronomical function, as a great many megalithic constructions do.