Nazis and Neo-Pagan Gnosis

[Maia]

No, Thelema. He was only interested in my knowledge of ancient religions. I wasn't doing any geolocating or covering the war then because Russia hadn't invaded yet, so was mostly just historical stuff.

I've met a few Thelemites at Pagan events. They tend to be quite weird.

[Constantine]

I go out of my way to avoid them. But my history work is open to all. I just don't think most neo pagans would like my face when I fail to stop a eye roll when I notice stuff is off or incorrect.

Like, yesterday I finally after months located a missing text on Callisto, was searching Iranian sources bur found it further east in China. Was the origin myth, early Iron Age. How straight face do you think after all that research I could get if some pagan dressed up in a Winnie the Pooh bear costume insisted she knew what she was talking about as she was a priestess in the cult. I'd have to leave so I could laugh.

[Maia]

I go out of my way to avoid them. But my history work is open to all. I just don't think most neo pagans would like my face when I fail to stop a eye roll when I notice stuff is off or incorrect.

Like, yesterday I finally after months located a missing text on Callisto, was searching Iranian sources bur found it further east in China. Was the origin myth, early Iron Age. How straight face do you think after all that research I could get if some pagan dressed up in a Winnie the Pooh bear costume insisted she knew what she was talking about as she was a priestess in the cult. I'd have to leave so I could laugh.

There are quite a lot of Pagans like that, admittedly. Especially Wiccans, I think. But a lot of other Pagans freely accept that they are reconstructing something that was lost. Or, as I prefer to think of it, reconstructing what it might have been like today had it not been lost.

[Constantine]

Ah.... largely impossible. Like the phrase: WE ARE THE GRANDAUGHTERS OF THE WITCHES YOU COULDN'T BURN doesn't have historic application as most people burned were not witches, were just Christians but heretics, or simply had a mental disorder. This isn't a historical mindset to predicate on.

The callisto myth has between 3 to 4 different eras, not easily mutually reconciled. Too many contradictions in society from the late bronze age to the late western Roman era. And it did by the way continue on, still temples in China. They haven't much of a clue though. Stuff gets ripped up in the torrents of migration and social upheaval. We never expect reforms and reformations and new hostile competing religions to pop up. For fictional literature to be absorbed into and become the religion over time.

Which stands in harmony with the St. Paul problem. It was kept secret so I can't interpreted it properly. I know alot is missing. I feel barely a tingle going over it all. It's gone, unlikely to be uncovered. Someone like me might untangle it all from various sources so can't rule that out, but I'll likely be unimpressed. Would it beat out say, The Jesus Prayer? That has antiquity too.

[Maia]

Ah.... largely impossible. Like the phrase: WE ARE THE GRANDAUGHTERS OF THE WITCHES YOU COULDN'T BURN doesn't have historic application as most people burned were not witches, were just Christians but heretics, or simply had a mental disorder. This isn't a historical mindset to predicate on.

The callisto myth has between 3 to 4 different eras, not easily mutually reconciled. Too many contradictions in society from the late bronze age to the late western Roman era. And it did by the way continue on, still temples in China. They haven't much of a clue though. Stuff gets ripped up in the torrents of migration and social upheaval. We never expect reforms and reformations and new hostile competing religions to pop up. For fictional literature to be absorbed into and become the religion over time.

Which stands in harmony with the St. Paul problem. It was kept secret so I can't interpreted it properly. I know alot is missing. I feel barely a tingle going over it all. It's gone, unlikely to be uncovered. Someone like me might untangle it all from various sources so can't rule that out, but I'll likely be unimpressed. Would it beat out say, The Jesus Prayer? That has antiquity too.

It's quite an odd myth, that of Callisto, but I can understand its antiquity, given that bears were apparently worshipped as long ago as the Palaeolithic, and always associated with the North.

[Constantine]

I don't have it that old yet. Edge of the bronze age. I could tolerate 14th or 15th century BC. If someone runs off saying Neolithic I'm gonna cough whatever I'm drinking up through my nose.

When Yu was controlling the floodwaters and was making a passage through Mount Huanyuan, he changed into a bear. He spoke to the Tushan [土山] girl: “If you want to give me some food, when you hear the sound of a drumbeat, come to me.” But Yu leaped on a stone and by mistake drummed on it. The Tushan girl came forward, but when she saw Yu in the guise of a bear she was ashamed and fled. She reached the foothills of Mount Songgao, when she turned into a stone and gave birth to Qi. Yu said, “Give me back my son!” The stone then split open [4] on its north flank and Qi was born (Birrell, 1999, p. 123).

Yu the Great was a snake with human head, who controlled the flood waters. His wife Nuwa is still worshipped in some temples. But she was also the goddess who destroyed Assyrian Ninevah with a flood and destroyed the Shang Empire with a flood, killing both cross dressing kings in their treasury tower for their acts of oppressive hendonism, and often the exact same ones. Both Confucius and Aristotle wrote on him, but the memory of Nuwa, if he wrote on her at all in his lost work on mythology already appears to of faded.

Expect this link to take upwards a hour to read, it's by a Chinese researcher doing the work Journey to the West but finding its roots in the Aegean and Sumerian area of the bronze and early iron age:

https://journeytothewestresearch.com/ta ... ullikummi/

His identification of Nuwa being associated with the stones that men would ejaculate on, as well as the monster monoliths looking to be sea cliffs along the ocean, does echo The Child of the Waters monsters.... such as leviathan. Massive multi headed sea gods who molested the sea coast, ate princesses tied to ropes and some other God or hero would have to fight them.

What the blogger doesn't know is Helen of Sparta/Troy was in one myth born in a nest on a ocean cliff, hatched from a egg, a egg very similar to these stones. I'm starting to see the shape of a Aegean non Indo-European mythology popping up.

The earlier strata was virgins inspiring men to nut on rocks, and you would bake the rock in a oven for nine months (kilns and breadbaking was a rather new tech), and then you hatch the egg by breaking it using tongs, but where the tongs were the baby is mortal.... like the ankle of Krishna and Achilles, immortal everywhere else. A Enki-Zeus-Yu like entity is about, or some horny Shepard looking at a virgin.

At some point this overtook the earlier slutocracy of mesopotamian religion where sacred prostitution prevailed. Temple priestess were rarely celibate and if so because they married the God and couldn't be considered celibate as she was banging the big guy in theory.

But then suddenly in Greece and with Artemis it turned into a celibacy thing. The sacred rocks were forgotten but that tradition continued on in a bunch of other locations (one is the black rock in Mecca, another black rock is in Rome burinf under Numa's grave- the vestal virgins would parade around it but in the middle east naked orgy people would run around it. In both cases it was a unarmed area but in the west our concept of sacred space vs secular comes from this. A unexpected nabatean reformed named Muhammad changed it up).

The Greeks and Roman's did both sacred prostitution but increasingly celibacy. Alot of the older myths taken from assyrians were mocked and misunderstood as it didn't match the current value or ideological systems at play. Then a even more celibate force came along, Christianity and got rid of the bear, but you can still see it in monastic saint stories a but, and references to pagan bear caves with stalagmites shaped like bears in Crete and Sparta.

Christianity has continued to evolve. Some branches don't do monastics or celibacy while others are turning back to a slutocracy. So trying to freeze it on the Nuwa era is pointless, or making little girls dress like bears.... we have the girl scouts, it's a better system.

What our civilization does, thanks to the French Revolution and Thomas Jefferson is focus on the incoherence of the change and write off the whole system. I reject this and note a orthodoxy is usually almost always in play in this transition. The generations in that change and just after are usually aware of the change and are generally okay with it. It's only much later when poking through the histories after a monoculture forms people flip out. Alot of this in a philosophy of history approach can be structured by sinewaves of higher and lower, predicting this metered process, not of times but of morphological changes, and add additional sinewaves representing known migrations and invasions brining new ideas or eradicating old ideas. When that synchs up we know the reason why.... outsiders. But when it doesn't, we have to assume a religious reformation, philosopher or theologian was about, or a great preacher or reciter like Homer who solidified the state of the religion. When stuff still doesn't exist against the historical record we probe harder. Was it a plague? Did trade and thus a avenue for new ideas suddenly increase or decrease? Economic recession or break away regions? Stuff like that. I haven't formalized this aspect of my theory. Still working on it. Expect Chat GPT 24 to be using it to make unexpected calculations that freak out academia, data mining archeological data and old histories.

[Maia]

I don't have it that old yet. Edge of the bronze age. I could tolerate 14th or 15th century BC. If someone runs off saying Neolithic I'm gonna cough whatever I'm drinking up through my nose.

When Yu was controlling the floodwaters and was making a passage through Mount Huanyuan, he changed into a bear. He spoke to the Tushan [土山] girl: “If you want to give me some food, when you hear the sound of a drumbeat, come to me.” But Yu leaped on a stone and by mistake drummed on it. The Tushan girl came forward, but when she saw Yu in the guise of a bear she was ashamed and fled. She reached the foothills of Mount Songgao, when she turned into a stone and gave birth to Qi. Yu said, “Give me back my son!” The stone then split open [4] on its north flank and Qi was born (Birrell, 1999, p. 123).

Yu the Great was a snake with human head, who controlled the flood waters. His wife Nuwa is still worshipped in some temples. But she was also the goddess who destroyed Assyrian Ninevah with a flood and destroyed the Shang Empire with a flood, killing both cross dressing kings in their treasury tower for their acts of oppressive hendonism, and often the exact same ones. Both Confucius and Aristotle wrote on him, but the memory of Nuwa, if he wrote on her at all in his lost work on mythology already appears to of faded.

Expect this link to take upwards a hour to read, it's by a Chinese researcher doing the work Journey to the West but finding its roots in the Aegean and Sumerian area of the bronze and early iron age:

https://journeytothewestresearch.com/ta ... ullikummi/

His identification of Nuwa being associated with the stones that men would ejaculate on, as well as the monster monoliths looking to be sea cliffs along the ocean, does echo The Child of the Waters monsters.... such as leviathan. Massive multi headed sea gods who molested the sea coast, ate princesses tied to ropes and some other God or hero would have to fight them.

What the blogger doesn't know is Helen of Sparta/Troy was in one myth born in a nest on a ocean cliff, hatched from a egg, a egg very similar to these stones. I'm starting to see the shape of a Aegean non Indo-European mythology popping up.

The earlier strata was virgins inspiring men to nut on rocks, and you would bake the rock in a oven for nine months (kilns and breadbaking was a rather new tech), and then you hatch the egg by breaking it using tongs, but where the tongs were the baby is mortal.... like the ankle of Krishna and Achilles, immortal everywhere else. A Enki-Zeus-Yu like entity is about, or some horny Shepard looking at a virgin.

At some point this overtook the earlier slutocracy of mesopotamian religion where sacred prostitution prevailed. Temple priestess were rarely celibate and if so because they married the God and couldn't be considered celibate as she was banging the big guy in theory.

But then suddenly in Greece and with Artemis it turned into a celibacy thing. The sacred rocks were forgotten but that tradition continued on in a bunch of other locations (one is the black rock in Mecca, another black rock is in Rome burinf under Numa's grave- the vestal virgins would parade around it but in the middle east naked orgy people would run around it. In both cases it was a unarmed area but in the west our concept of sacred space vs secular comes from this. A unexpected nabatean reformed named Muhammad changed it up).

The Greeks and Roman's did both sacred prostitution but increasingly celibacy. Alot of the older myths taken from assyrians were mocked and misunderstood as it didn't match the current value or ideological systems at play. Then a even more celibate force came along, Christianity and got rid of the bear, but you can still see it in monastic saint stories a but, and references to pagan bear caves with stalagmites shaped like bears in Crete and Sparta.

Christianity has continued to evolve. Some branches don't do monastics or celibacy while others are turning back to a slutocracy. So trying to freeze it on the Nuwa era is pointless, or making little girls dress like bears.... we have the girl scouts, it's a better system.

What our civilization does, thanks to the French Revolution and Thomas Jefferson is focus on the incoherence of the change and write off the whole system. I reject this and note a orthodoxy is usually almost always in play in this transition. The generations in that change and just after are usually aware of the change and are generally okay with it. It's only much later when poking through the histories after a monoculture forms people flip out. Alot of this in a philosophy of history approach can be structured by sinewaves of higher and lower, predicting this metered process, not of times but of morphological changes, and add additional sinewaves representing known migrations and invasions brining new ideas or eradicating old ideas. When that synchs up we know the reason why.... outsiders. But when it doesn't, we have to assume a religious reformation, philosopher or theologian was about, or a great preacher or reciter like Homer who solidified the state of the religion. When stuff still doesn't exist against the historical record we probe harder. Was it a plague? Did trade and thus a avenue for new ideas suddenly increase or decrease? Economic recession or break away regions? Stuff like that. I haven't formalized this aspect of my theory. Still working on it. Expect Chat GPT 24 to be using it to make unexpected calculations that freak out academia, data mining archeological data and old histories.

I started a thread last year that touches on this subject area (which was, in turn, based on an earlier one I had started at ILP), so rather than derail this one, I'll just quote myself, and then add further commentary below.

This is an idea that has been current for some time among archaeologists and other scholars of ancient history, though has fallen into disrepute to a certain extent through being politicised. While there are many variations in detail, the basic concept is that ancient agricultural societies tended to be matriarchal in structure, but changed to a patriarchal system with the advent of metal working and warfare.

http://www.mother-god.com/matriarchal-history.html

+++It is remarkable that the many varied and highly expert author-archaeologists in the excellent series Ancient People and Places express their wonder at the evidence they have found that women were once pre-eminent in each of their areas of research, from the Near East to Ireland. Each writes as if this ancient dominance of women were unique and peculiar to his archaeological province. Yet taken all together these archaeological finds prove that feminine pre-eminence was a universal, and not a localised, phenomenon.+++ (Elizabeth Gould Davis)

One example is Kvenland (literally Queenland), recorded in Alfred the Great's Orosius in the 9th century, and described, very precisely, as being located in what is today the northern part of Sweden.

In Tacitus's Germania, from the 1st century, is the following.

+++Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman. So notoriously do they degenerate not only from a state of liberty, but even below a state of bondage.+++

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/tacitus1.asp

Since the Suiones are known to be the Swedes, it seems that the Sitones, ruled by a woman, are the same as the Kvens of nearly a thousand years later, ruled by a queen.

Another example can be found in the work of Diodorus Siculus, writing in the 1st century BC, who provides a detailed account of the Amazons of Libya, and their conquest of the Atlanteans.

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/ ... s/3D*.html

To summarise:

The Amazons of Libya were far more ancient than the more well-known ones on the Thermadon river, and disappeared many generations before the Trojan war.

Libya was also home to other races of warlike women, such as the Gorgons.

The Amazons dwelt in western Libya. In their society, women were required to serve in the army and maintain their virginity while doing so. After their years of service were over, they were allowed to bear children, but retained all political power for themselves, while the men stayed at home and raised the children. Female children had their breasts seared to they wouldn't develop and become a hindrance in warfare. (I have to point out here, though, that this idea is based on an ancient misunderstanding of the etymology of "Amazon".)

The home of the Amazons was a large, fertile island in the far west called Hespera, in the marsh Tritonis, near Mount Atlas. (The Greek term Libya covered the whole of North Africa, not just the modern country of that name.)

After conquering their neighbours the Amazons founded a city called Cherronesus.

They then set out to conquer the Atlanteans, who dwelt along the coast.

Led by their queen, Myrina, the Amazons advanced against the Atlanteans with a huge army of cavalry. They destroyed the city of Cernê, whereupon the other Atlanteans surrendered to her. The Amazons and Atlanteans now became friends, with Myrina as their queen, and together attacked the neighbouring Gorgons, who, as mentioned earlier, were also a race of female warriors, and these, after being taken captive by the Amazons, rose up against them. After much slaughter, the Amazons prevailed.

Myrina went on to conquer large areas of Arabia, Syria, and the Taurus mountains, after making a treaty of friendship with the king of Egypt. (Diodorus names the king of Egypt as Horus, but this isn't much help, as all the kings of Egypt had Horus as part of their official name.)

Myrina then conquered the island of Lesbos, and set up a sanctuary to the goddess on another Greek island, Samothrace.

The Thracians attacked Myrina and her army, defeated them, and eventually drove them back to Libya.

Diodorus then moves onto describing the Atlanteans, telling us nothing more about the Amazons, or their queen, Myrina, though in an earlier passage he does say that the Amazons were later completely wiped out by Hercules.

Are these and similar stories mere fable, or are they based in fact?

My proposal, in other words, though it's not particularly original, is that these various myths from around the world, combined with archaeological data, suggest an ancient matriarchal and theocratic society that was eventually overthrown, sometime around the end of the Bronze Age and the transition to the much more warlike Iron Age. Elements, however, survived, in the various orders of celibate priestesses attached to shrines and temples in the Classical world, such as Delphi, and the Vestal Virgins of Rome. Myths of Artemis and Diana the Huntress also echo this tradition.

Your mention of Leviathan, however, brings in another strand of myth, which also has relevance to an earlier part of our discussion. Leviathan, in Golden Dawn Kabbalistic lore, is equated with the seven-headed dragon of Revelation, and the Qliphoth of the Kabbalah, that is, the seven hells of the underworld, with each head representing one of the hells, a sort of chaotic reflection of the seven heavens above, represented by the planets on the Tree of Life. The seven-headed dragon has ten horns, and one of the supposed great mysteries is how these ten horns are distributed correctly among the seven heads, though in fact, the answer is quite easy for anyone who knows anything about the Kabbalah. The myth of Leviathan also related, on the one hand, to Greek stories of the Hydra, and on the other to Sumerian myths of Tiamat, from which it is presumably derived.

[Constantine]

The marsh tritonius was the lake tritonius. It is leftover rememberences of Carthage, their punic religion borrowed heavily from the luwians and hittites.

As to the bronze age.... the cult of Dea Syria I've found reference in exact parallel found in Lucian of Samosota in a 12th century Egyptian text called The Tale of Two Brothers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tale_of_Two_Brothers

The Egyptians co trolled the territory of Mandib, Syria for a few centuries so had time to try to assimilate them, largely failed. But the Egyptian priesthood was largely just that.... a priesthood. Sumerians had priestess, but the assassinu (men crossdressing) took it over and the women never ruled the states. They eventually took over the cult of Dea Syria as well.

As a general rule I've found (this is my conjecture. Never before discussed) that in land based primates, males tend to be more aggressive and dominate. In tree based primates it doesn't matter as much. The eagles eat them male or female, they disperse in the trees and scream when they see danger and scatter. They eat their own fruits or insects, rarely need to share. They rarely have one sex bigger than another. Sometimes female sexual preferences even dominate- you'll get monkeys with big noses.

For ground based primates like baboons, gorillas, chimps, humans and baboons males dominate. Near always have. Only recently have the stresses of the ground been eliminated for humans, both from dangerous predators and from workloads, and only in the rich, western urbanized world. Otherwise men still dominate. Don't confuse a statue of a sedentary fat chick used by hunter gathers with a 400 square mile range as a matriarchy, anymore than a stack of porn as proof women rule the world. Fat woman in a starving substance hunter gatherer society is a rare thing much desired by men tired of losing children to skinny women. When we do finally encounter societies that seem to of transitioned from the Neolithic cult to a female goddess, it isn't women in charge but males who are gay or eunuchs, with cults centered around castration.... something women can't do.

In general men have more to lose in a matriarchy than females do under a patriarchy, but it isn't a either or duality. Other systems can exist as well.

[Maia]

The marsh tritonius was the lake tritonius. It is leftover rememberences of Carthage, their punic religion borrowed heavily from the luwians and hittites.

As to the bronze age.... the cult of Dea Syria I've found reference in exact parallel found in Lucian of Samosota in a 12th century Egyptian text called The Tale of Two Brothers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tale_of_Two_Brothers

The Egyptians co trolled the territory of Mandib, Syria for a few centuries so had time to try to assimilate them, largely failed. But the Egyptian priesthood was largely just that.... a priesthood. Sumerians had priestess, but the assassinu (men crossdressing) took it over and the women never ruled the states. They eventually took over the cult of Dea Syria as well.

As a general rule I've found (this is my conjecture. Never before discussed) that in land based primates, males tend to be more aggressive and dominate. In tree based primates it doesn't matter as much. The eagles eat them male or female, they disperse in the trees and scream when they see danger and scatter. They eat their own fruits or insects, rarely need to share. They rarely have one sex bigger than another. Sometimes female sexual preferences even dominate- you'll get monkeys with big noses.

For ground based primates like baboons, gorillas, chimps, humans and baboons males dominate. Near always have. Only recently have the stresses of the ground been eliminated for humans, both from dangerous predators and from workloads, and only in the rich, western urbanized world. Otherwise men still dominate. Don't confuse a statue of a sedentary fat chick used by hunter gathers with a 400 square mile range as a matriarchy, anymore than a stack of porn as proof women rule the world. Fat woman in a starving substance hunter gatherer society is a rare thing much desired by men tired of losing children to skinny women. When we do finally encounter societies that seem to of transitioned from the Neolithic cult to a female goddess, it isn't women in charge but males who are gay or eunuchs, with cults centered around castration.... something women can't do.

In general men have more to lose in a matriarchy than females do under a patriarchy, but it isn't a either or duality. Other systems can exist as well.

I don't doubt that men have always been in charge of warfare, in other words, kings. It does very much seem, though, that certain early societies also had women in charge of spiritual matters. As to which of these two sources of authority was actually more powerful, this is clearly a matter of debate, and must have varied anyway, but seems to have gradually tipped in favour of the kings. The later Babylonians might have preserved ancient king lists, because in those later times, these were thought of as more important, while ignoring the lists of high priestesses, if such things ever existed.

It's also interesting how men were able to usurp the natural authority of women by cross dressing and castrating themselves, which eerily parallels certain modern trends.

[Constantine]

It was from the men wanting control of the priestess cults in sumeria, which was based on sacred prostitution. Easiest way to control a male population, a big portion of which was enslaved rural folk suddenly working in the city completely alien to them. They developed a kind of currency, the goddess silver, which were these little silver spirals. Guys craved that power, wrestled the priesthood from them. Not attractive for kings wanting a sexy priestess consort around. Was undoubtedly easy to knock them up at one time and say the God did it and make them your heir. Not so much once they were men.

Anyway.... most of the rape God stuff comes from the female priestess era. Think the female priests were transfixed on it, and stumped the later greek males who inherited the religion in the philosophical age.

And women tend to have dominant sway only in patriarchy. And I should add, sedentary agricultural patriarchy. Ask any young man who dated a religious woman who's church he ended up going to and the frequency. The religions tend to favor them more psychologically even if obstentially cult out. But time after time when women gain control men as cross dressers creep in. I recall reading about this in the pagan backwaters of the Phillipines when the US occupied, kept coming across men dressing as women running the priestess jobs, but women would do it in other tribes. The communities were also ran by male leaders in both cases so women usually just get shut out if a matriarchy is established in the end.

In the case of the Roman's it was backlash against hermaphrodites. Wasn't even Christians, pagans doing it.

[Constantine]

Oh.... since about 5,000 BC kingly authority mattered more. We can date it easily. Your first fortified cities with monolithic architecture developed then. The Neolithic fat chick statues were handheld in size, and I don't think fat women were patrolling 400 square miles with the men. The women undoubtedly mattered, but in the sense a beautiful playmate centerfold in a small town married to the local rich guy would matter. Women will scoff at and yet and follow her as the pageant queen.

You should look into the silliness of military wives ranking themselves socially off their husbands rank. A colonels wife thinks she has that rank over a privates wife. Doesn't work that way from a male soldiers perspective.... but the women just do that silly shit.

[Constantine]

The old Demonax the Cynic vs Phaborinos the Sophist debate:

http://www.connellodonovan.com/phaborinos.html

It was on its way out as a institution (homosexuality) in Rome. Too many plagues and instability to maintain bloodlines ultimately smashed it, was a natural extention of the earlier Augustin family reforms.

At the height under the gay emperor Hadrian he had a backlash and was exiled to Chios. Couldn't find a more pro gay culture. It's similar to the recent Bud Light boycott.

In end.... well.... let's say a recent poster on this site said homosexuals in any era make up 10% of the population. That's nonsense. The culture of the ancient world post plagues and after christianization and serfdom set in pretty much suppressed homosexuality and enforced marriage. Gay people were forced to breed. That resulted in 1400 years of homosexuality breeding. The forced celibacy of the western church turned its priesthood effeminate and gay in the end, but at precisely the same time gays suddenly don't have to breed anymore. End result will be a sharp reduction in numbers, first in the west and later on in China and the Middle East as they open up more. You'll still have embryonic development inbalances producing some, but medicine will solve that in time. Likewise middle east is fast tracking on genetic counseling due to inbreeding and think they will take the fastest to fixing genetic problems in prenatal screening. Expect the gay population to get screened out first with them. I suspect in under 300 years despite gay pride homosexuality will be exceptionally rare. The late Roman plagues was its biggest boon in causing it to go underground. Its just now blossoming like it was prior to that era but had to be suppressed within the framework the Roman mindset operated in. But I don't think 10% is maintainable. Darwinian factors will take it down, then medical, and finally genetic screening by cultures unimpressed with western outlooks.

But in the meantime if you got a bonus hole as they call it (natural female) don't play sports or you'll lose.

[Maia]

Oh.... since about 5,000 BC kingly authority mattered more. We can date it easily. Your first fortified cities with monolithic architecture developed then. The Neolithic fat chick statues were handheld in size, and I don't think fat women were patrolling 400 square miles with the men. The women undoubtedly mattered, but in the sense a beautiful playmate centerfold in a small town married to the local rich guy would matter. Women will scoff at and yet and follow her as the pageant queen.

You should look into the silliness of military wives ranking themselves socially off their husbands rank. A colonels wife thinks she has that rank over a privates wife. Doesn't work that way from a male soldiers perspective.... but the women just do that silly shit.

Those fortified cities were located in the Middle East. There were none in Western Europe, where instead we find thousands of stone circle and other megalithic monuments with no defensive purpose at all. We can surmise from this, then, that the megalithic culture was not based primarily on warfare, which at the very least, allows for the possibility of a more matriarchal type of society.

To this idea, we can add archaeological evidence of high status female burials. A good example is the so-called Egtved Girl, from Denmark, whose burial can be dated to precisely 1370 BC, through dendrochronology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egtved_Girl

Since her discovery, in the 1920s, similar examples have been found in other places, all wearing the same type of outfit. Small figurines have also been found from the same period, of women with similar clothing, apparently performing ritual dances.

In legend, stone circles are very often associated with women dancing, such as the Nine Ladies in Derbyshire, who were all turned to stone for dancing in the sabbath. Other examples are the Nine Maidens in Cornwall, or the Merry Maidens, also in Cornwall. Note the theme of maidenhood.

Also, in legend, stone circles are very commonly associated with witches. At the Rollright Stones on Oxfordshire a witch is said to have stopped an invading army, for example. Another high status burial has been found here, of a woman with ritual implements, though interestingly, from a much later period, that of the early Anglo-Saxons, indicating a long continuity of usage.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... ument.html

Folklore at the Rollright Stones speaks of ghostly women in white haunting the place, and this is repeated at a great many other sites. I have personally spoken to people at Flamborough in Yorkshire who told me of the women in white haunting a Neolithic earthwork in the area. I'm a great believer in the idea that to approach the truth of what was actually going on, we should use information from as wide a variety of sources as possible, archaeology, written records, mythology, legends and folklore, and there's no substitute for actually going to a place and speaking to the locals about it.

I've also heard a theory that megalithic constructions such as Wayland's Smithy in Oxfordshire were designed so that the acoustics favour female chanting over male. Having tried this out myself, I have to say that the results were inconclusive. More work needs to be done on this.

[Constantine]

Europe certainly was behind on the construction of stone fortified settlements, but certainly had forts. I've been going over forts in Wales and Southern England for a while, while systemmatic warfare fortifications designed to repulse a siege appears quite late in the bronze age, the settlements with enclosures do not. Often back to 4000 BC, when they were still exhaustic the soil through poor agricultural practices. Basically they had to stay low population and migrate from site to site often, so the settled societies will outnumber the actual sedentary societies at any given time. This likewise is going to hamper monolithic building programs. What it won't hamper is wooden fort buildings like we see occasionally pop up in a bog in Europe, but you have to be extremely lucky to find those. England is overrepresented in late bronze age hill forts due to the ease of finding them but under in everything else likely due to rich agricultural swampsor other areas with lots of food and productivity in the era having been continuously exploited to this day, and now have something called council houses built over them.

The reflective acoustics is a known phenomena two continents wide. Best site is in Malta, the best acoustics in the ancient world, and they have monolithic building going back to 10,000 BC. Nothing in particular stands out as a matriarchy at any of these sites until the time of written records, when we get a glimpse of what current practices were, and only some were focused in female gods or priesthoods. It's like trying to ascribe a roof to a matriarchy.... too common of a attribute, and coincidental if they have it.

Under the ground primate theory I noted agriculture sped up human aggression as men turned sedentary and stayed in one place, having to guard their lands. It wasn't till Mesopotamia you saw armies of over 1,000. Prior it was just clan battles, a few dozen to a few hundred on either side. Primary concerns is survival of families, followed by food, followed by settlements. It would of been easy to rebuild something thatched (and equally hard to see it on the archeological record). It took a long time to solve simple stuff such as how to preserve grain from humidity and rats.... I recently solved a Aegean bronze age mystery of a mysterious ceramic pan with intricate designs that was made for cooking but never used as lack of evidence of burning flame. I had to explain they were viewing it upside down.... was a lid for a grain pot. I know because greek and turkish women to this day are obsessed on social media with showing off their multi grain inventories in glass and plastic bottles in their kitchen, and I followed a few because they were archeologists and should of known their ancestors would of been equally impressed with their kitchen grain, but rats were a bigger issue then. Plus the fancy designs were on the underside of the pan.... which made no sense. Clearly a lid. Often described as a big archeological mystery.... dumbasses.

It took time to turn assets like buildings into useful fortifications. 10,000 bc (call that the start of agriculture, precise dates can be debated) to around 5000 BC, when fortified long term settlements turn up, where we realize walls do more than support roofs, and you can actually use them to fend off costly raids and have more babies. Using bows and arrows with walls.... oh fuck. Myceneans were stumped on how to fight Troy in the Illiad for 10 years.

The wooden bog forts do provide this function for a small population. Just hell to find. But they existed in some places. England always was a backwater.

[Constantine]

Here is a Wikipedia link to the "frying pan", which is just a grain lid. They come up with every theory except the most obvious..... why wouldn't the decorated side face the owner? If it is facing upwards, then the pan sides form lips, covering up something round shape, like a vase. That's a lid.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frying_pan_(NAMA_4974)