WOKE and identification...

[Peter Kropotkin]

Somebody can seriously ask this ???

K: yes, someone should seriously ask this.. because
a fundamental question is, who are we and who
gets to decide who we are? The question of identity, is one of the
primary motivators of both thought and action taken
in the U.S.... and the entire culture wars are about
this question of identification..... and who makes
that identification.... the state/society, individuals like
yourself or do I get to make my own self-identification?

Kropotkin

Lunatics running the asylum.

K: and yet avoiding answering my question...
where does the burden of proof lie?

the state/society may say being gay or trans is harmful,
so the burden of proof lies with the state/society,
not with me.... so, who is right?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

I accuse philo of being a murderer....
and philo will, correctly say, prove it...
ah, I don't have to prove that you are a murderer,
you have to prove that you are not a murderer...

thus, how do you prove you are not a murderer?

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

K: yes, someone should seriously ask this.. because
a fundamental question is, who are we and who
gets to decide who we are? The question of identity, is one of the
primary motivators of both thought and action taken
in the U.S.... and the entire culture wars are about
this question of identification..... and who makes
that identification.... the state/society, individuals like
yourself or do I get to make my own self-identification?

Kropotkin

Lunatics running the asylum.

K: and yet avoiding answering my question...
where does the burden of proof lie?

the state/society may say being gay or trans is harmful,
so the burden of proof lies with the state/society,
not with me.... so, who is right?

Kropotkin

There is no answer that can be given to someone so detached from reality that he can't distinguish a person from a penguin.

[phyllo]

I accuse philo of being a murderer....
and philo will, correctly say, prove it...
ah, I don't have to prove that you are a murderer,
you have to prove that you are not a murderer...

thus, how do you prove you are not a murderer?

Kropotkin

Maybe you need to study some law books.

Maybe you need to study ethics.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm bemused by Kropotkin's complete obsession with trying to redeem "Wokeness" in various forms and topics. It can only be that he regards himself as one of them, and supposes that he owes them some kind of promotion.

But "Wokeness" is starting to take a much-deserved beating in the public eye. The Bud Light scandal is but one clear marker of this: people are tired of the Wokies, and they're starting to turn away from their nonsense. Places like San Fran, Portland, LA, Seattle...are another: they're in complete disarray because of the policies of woke politicians, and are dissolving in flames and excrement. A kind of rising panic is also happening among Wokies, as they are starting to see their bluff called and the tides reversed.

In ten years, it seems likely that "wokeness" will be an antiquated joke. It must be immeasurably frustrating to its proponents that their power is slipping away.

But I think it's no less than they deserve. They never contributed a useful thing to society, and nothing they've done will stand. But their foolishness might possibly provoke a backlash that would be harmful to us all -- that's possible. If so, it will be but the last in a chain of absolute disasters provoked by the Woke movement.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Lunatics running the asylum.

K: and yet avoiding answering my question...
where does the burden of proof lie?

the state/society may say being gay or trans is harmful,
so the burden of proof lies with the state/society,
not with me.... so, who is right?

Kropotkin

There is no answer that can be given to someone so detached from reality that he can't distinguish a person from a penguin.

K: and once again, avoiding the question...
given your position, my guess is that avoiding the question
is your only hope...

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

I accuse philo of being a murderer....
and philo will, correctly say, prove it...
ah, I don't have to prove that you are a murderer,
you have to prove that you are not a murderer...

thus, how do you prove you are not a murderer?

Kropotkin

Maybe you need to study some law books.

Maybe you need to study ethics.

K: I accuse philo of murder....
he has the burden of proof...
what does he do?

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

I accuse philo of being a murderer....
and philo will, correctly say, prove it...
ah, I don't have to prove that you are a murderer,
you have to prove that you are not a murderer...

thus, how do you prove you are not a murderer?

Kropotkin

Maybe you need to study some law books.

Maybe you need to study ethics.

K: I accuse philo of murder....
he has the burden of proof...
what does he do?

Kropotkin

I don't have the burden of proof.

Neither in law nor in ethics.

[phyllo]

K: and yet avoiding answering my question...
where does the burden of proof lie?

the state/society may say being gay or trans is harmful,
so the burden of proof lies with the state/society,
not with me.... so, who is right?

Kropotkin

There is no answer that can be given to someone so detached from reality that he can't distinguish a person from a penguin.

K: and once again, avoiding the question...
given your position, my guess is that avoiding the question
is your only hope...

Kropotkin

There is a minimum level of rationality required for having a discussion.

You have not attained that level.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Maybe you need to study some law books.

Maybe you need to study ethics.

K: I accuse philo of murder....
he has the burden of proof...
what does he do?

Kropotkin

I don't have the burden of proof.

Neither in law nor in ethics.

K: and thank you for proving my point...
I don't have to prove that being "WOKE" is not wrong or evil,
you have to prove that it is wrong or evil...
you have the burden of proof...

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

There is no answer that can be given to someone so detached from reality that he can't distinguish a person from a penguin.

K: and once again, avoiding the question...
given your position, my guess is that avoiding the question
is your only hope...

Kropotkin

There is a minimum level of rationality required for having a discussion.

You have not attained that level.

K: and once again, trying desperately to avoid the question..
this time by declaring that I am unable to understand..
perhaps try taking the responsibility of not knowing the
answer...instead of passing the "blame'' onto me....

you have no answer.. just accept that and move on.....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

I'm bemused by Kropotkin's complete obsession with trying to redeem "Wokeness" in various forms and topics. It can only be that he regards himself as one of them, and supposes that he owes them some kind of promotion.

But "Wokeness" is starting to take a much-deserved beating in the public eye. The Bud Light scandal is but one clear marker of this: people are tired of the Wokies, and they're starting to turn away from their nonsense. Places like San Fran, Portland, LA, Seattle...are another: they're in complete disarray because of the policies of woke politicians, and are dissolving in flames and excrement. A kind of rising panic is also happening among Wokies, as they are starting to see their bluff called and the tides reversed.

In ten years, it seems likely that "wokeness" will be an antiquated joke. It must be immeasurably frustrating to its proponents that their power is slipping away.

But I think it's no less than they deserve. They never contributed a useful thing to society, and nothing they've done will stand. But their foolishness might possibly provoke a backlash that would be harmful to us all -- that's possible. If so, it will be but the last in a chain of absolute disasters provoked by the Woke movement.

K: and in thinking about this, you claim that "WOKENESS" has
destroyed such American cities as San Francisco or Seattle..
and has the potential to destroy America...

but as I have written in another thread.. the problems
that plague those cities are not endemic to those cities....
they are problems coming to a city near you...

the rising problems of housing/rents, of drugs, of violence
are not a SF problem or a Seattle problem but a national problem...
and national problems requires a national solution....
the only problem with SF for example, is that it hit
there first...as usual, distinctly American problems hit
California first and then travel east...
the problems with drugs and homelessness is an
American problem... every single city and state in
America has these problems, for example, New York
has more homeless people than SF...and has an equal
problem with the cost of homes and rent....which are
an American problem.. thus requiring a national solution...

Rents for example, are out of control in many cities and states...
it is estimated that 35% of Americans don't own homes...
and that number will rise as the years go along...
and why? the fact is home ownership is getting much more
expensive... my own condo, about 6 months ago, was
worth over 1 million dollars...a small two bedroom condo...
but on the SF peninsula.. location, location, location....
and how many people can afford a one million dollar condo?

thus part of the homeless problem lies in the vastly overpriced
housing market.... and what is the fix for that? WOKENESS
has nothing to do with that...

or what about the massive drug problem in America?
is that a local problem or is that a national problem?
clearly it is national, so a national solution is required...
which has nothing to do with any individual city or state...
SF cannot solve its homelessness problem by itself..
nor can it solve its drug problem by itself...
that is simply impossible...

don't make national issues a local problem, because it
isn't...thus what an issue is in California or in SF, will be
hitting a city near you, if it already hasn't gotten there...
and then who are you going to blame?

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

K: and once again, avoiding the question...
given your position, my guess is that avoiding the question
is your only hope...

Kropotkin

There is a minimum level of rationality required for having a discussion.

You have not attained that level.

K: and once again, trying desperately to avoid the question..
this time by declaring that I am unable to understand..
perhaps try taking the responsibility of not knowing the
answer...instead of passing the "blame'' onto me....

you have no answer.. just accept that and move on.....

Kropotkin

You post nonsense.

There is no need to respond to it.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm bemused by Kropotkin's complete obsession with trying to redeem "Wokeness" in various forms and topics. It can only be that he regards himself as one of them, and supposes that he owes them some kind of promotion.

But "Wokeness" is starting to take a much-deserved beating in the public eye. The Bud Light scandal is but one clear marker of this: people are tired of the Wokies, and they're starting to turn away from their nonsense. Places like San Fran, Portland, LA, Seattle...are another: they're in complete disarray because of the policies of woke politicians, and are dissolving in flames and excrement. A kind of rising panic is also happening among Wokies, as they are starting to see their bluff called and the tides reversed.

In ten years, it seems likely that "wokeness" will be an antiquated joke. It must be immeasurably frustrating to its proponents that their power is slipping away.

But I think it's no less than they deserve. They never contributed a useful thing to society, and nothing they've done will stand. But their foolishness might possibly provoke a backlash that would be harmful to us all -- that's possible. If so, it will be but the last in a chain of absolute disasters provoked by the Woke movement.

K: and in thinking about this, you claim that "WOKENESS" has
destroyed such American cities as San Francisco or Seattle..
and has the potential to destroy America...

No, it's finished. The only question is how much it gets to take down with it...probably not the whole country, but every place that's given in to it, like the above named.

the rising problems of housing/rents, of drugs, of violence
are not a SF problem or a Seattle problem but a national problem...

That's true, but it's been made immeasurably worse by the Wokies. It's in places like LA, NY, and Chicago, where libs and Wokies have ruled for generations, that these problems are at the worst.

Show one thing that Wokeness has created...other than ruin, I mean.

WOKENESS
has nothing to do with that...

It does, actually. The elite exploiters of Wokist propaganda have used it to create support among the foolish for polices that destroy economies, destroy nations, and raise the cost of everything beyond the powers of the ordinary worker.

Look around you: who's winning? Who is running our western democracies right now? How are the corporations and the arms-makers doing right now? What's the cost of housing and food?

And yet, which one of these politicians who have done this doesn't claim affiliation with the Wokies?

...what an issue is in California or in SF, will be
hitting a city near you, if it already hasn't gotten there...

It's true life is always difficult. But head-tohead, things are better in every conservative state than they are in a comparable "Woke" state. Look at the homicidal ruin that is Chicago or NY now...or the pile of needles and excrement that is San Fran or LA. These were formerly among the most beautiful and affluent cities. And who has been running them into the ground?

..and then who are you going to blame?

For that? Wokies. They have done it. There's nobody else to blame. They had the power -- they were the mayors, the governors, most of the executive...nobody else was in position to have done it.

And look what they've done.

[Peter Kropotkin]

I'm bemused by Kropotkin's complete obsession with trying to redeem "Wokeness" in various forms and topics. It can only be that he regards himself as one of them, and supposes that he owes them some kind of promotion.

But "Wokeness" is starting to take a much-deserved beating in the public eye. The Bud Light scandal is but one clear marker of this: people are tired of the Wokies, and they're starting to turn away from their nonsense. Places like San Fran, Portland, LA, Seattle...are another: they're in complete disarray because of the policies of woke politicians, and are dissolving in flames and excrement. A kind of rising panic is also happening among Wokies, as they are starting to see their bluff called and the tides reversed.

In ten years, it seems likely that "wokeness" will be an antiquated joke. It must be immeasurably frustrating to its proponents that their power is slipping away.

But I think it's no less than they deserve. They never contributed a useful thing to society, and nothing they've done will stand. But their foolishness might possibly provoke a backlash that would be harmful to us all -- that's possible. If so, it will be but the last in a chain of absolute disasters provoked by the Woke movement.

K: and in thinking about this, you claim that "WOKENESS" has
destroyed such American cities as San Francisco or Seattle..
and has the potential to destroy America...

No, it's finished. The only question is how much it gets to take down with it...probably not the whole country, but every place that's given in to it, like the above named.

the rising problems of housing/rents, of drugs, of violence
are not a SF problem or a Seattle problem but a national problem...

That's true, but it's been made immeasurably worse by the Wokies. It's in places like LA, NY, and Chicago, where libs and Wokies have ruled for generations, that these problems are at the worst.

Show one thing that Wokeness has created...other than ruin, I mean.

WOKENESS
has nothing to do with that...

It does, actually. The elite exploiters of Wokist propaganda have used it to create support among the foolish for polices that destroy economies, destroy nations, and raise the cost of everything beyond the powers of the ordinary worker.

Look around you: who's winning? Who is running our western democracies right now? How are the corporations and the arms-makers doing right now? What's the cost of housing and food?

And yet, which one of these politicians who have done this doesn't claim affiliation with the Wokies?

...what an issue is in California or in SF, will be
hitting a city near you, if it already hasn't gotten there...

It's true life is always difficult. But head-tohead, things are better in every conservative state than they are in a comparable "Woke" state. Look at the homicidal ruin that is Chicago or NY now...or the pile of needles and excrement that is San Fran or LA. These were formerly among the most beautiful and affluent cities. And who has been running them into the ground?

..and then who are you going to blame?

For that? Wokies. They have done it. There's nobody else to blame. They had the power -- they were the mayors, the governors, most of the executive...nobody else was in position to have done it.

And look what they've done.

K: and once again, proving you know nothing...
I have lived in California since 1973... and until
the 90's, California was a republican state... it voted
red, for decades...for example over a 36 year period,
from 1952 to 1988, California, only voted for a democrat once, in 1964....
and since the 92 election, has increasingly voted blue..

the problems of California are not endemic to California...
the drug problems is far worse in red states like Mississippi
and Iowa.... in fact, in every single survey, the blue states
are better run and are in fact, the engine that boost
America... California is the 6th largest economy in the world...
and that suggest that you are wrong... really, really wrong...

another example is this... the blue states are, overall,
far more likely to send more money to Washington than
red states.. the red states are states that cannot get by
without federal money.. the blue states can and do...
according to stats.. that 7 of the most dependent on federal
government states are red states...that 29 states sent more
money to the federal government than they received...
and compared to 9 states that didn't...and California?
we are 48th in terms of money received as opposed to
money spent.. the other two states, Washington and New Jersey..
both blue states...both have more money going out then coming in
from the federal government...and those are the facts...
and in further looking at the argument you presented...
that Illinois and NY are blues states that send more money
to the federal government than they received...
and the big money makers in both states come
from their largest city, in Illinois, it is Chicago
and in NY, NY..... and I lived in the Chicago area
for years with my family still living there...

your argument only holds water if you are willing to ignore
the facts.....

my stats come from moneygeek, article last updated in 4/2/23...

Kropotkin