What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15719
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

While not in totality, the fundamentals of my views are in alignment with that of 'Constructivism', which also support my views on why Morality is Objective.

...........
Any one-dimensional answer to the question “What is constructivism?” does not only contradict constructivist principles, it is above all
counterproductive for scientific and philosophical endeavors.
It would be difficult if not impossible to lump together the many independent disciplinary roots and proponents of constructivism.
However, it is possible and desirable to distill their common denominator.
It encompasses the following ten aspects.

  • 1. Constructivist approaches question the Cartesian separation between objective world and subjective experience

    2. Constructivist approaches demand the inclusion of the observer in (scientific) explanations

    3. Representationalism is rejected

    4. It is futile to claim that knowledge approaches observer-independent reality; instead, reality is brought forth by the subject

    5. Constructivist approaches entertain an agnostic relationship with any observer-independent reality

    6. The focus of research moves from the world that consists of matter to the world that consists of what matters

    7. Constructivist approaches focus on self-referential and organizationally closed systems
    Such systems strive for control over their inputs rather than their outputs.

    8. Constructivist approaches favor a process-oriented approach rather than a substance-based perspective

    9. Constructivist approaches emphasize the “individual as personal scientist” approach…
    …as their starting point is the cognitive capacity of the experiencing subject.

    10. Constructivism asks for an open pluralistic approach to science…
    …in order to generate the plasticity that is needed to cope with the scientific frontier.



1. Constructivist approaches question the Cartesian separation between objective world and subjective experience
As argued by Josef Mitterer (2001), such dualistic approaches, being the prevailing scientific orientation, are based on the distinction between description and object, and their argumentation is directed towards the object of thought. Mitterer claims that the dualistic method of searching for truth is but an argumentative technique that can turn any arbitrary opinion either true or false. Therefore, the goal of dualistic philosophies, i.e., philosophies based on the subject–object dichotomy, is to convince a public audience (readers, listeners, discussion partners) of the truth. An example to surmount the separation is the concept of “enaction” (Varela, Thompson & Rosch 1991: 150) according to which “…knower and known, mind and world, stand in relation to each other through mutual specification or dependent co-origination.”

2. Constructivist approaches demand the inclusion of the observer in (scientific) explanations
This is a consequence of the previous point. Heinz von Foerster (quoted from Glasersfeld 1995) summarizes the crucial point in a single statement, “Objectivity is the delusion that observations could be made without an observer.” Maturana (1978: 3) made it a dictum: “Everything said is said by an observer to another observer that could be him- or herself.”

3. Representationalism is rejected
Questioning the correspondence theory of representation (cf. Ludwig Wittgenstein’s “in order to tell whether a picture is true or false we must compare it with reality”) induced Ernst von Glasersfeld to formulate the radical constructivist position. It is the claim that knowledge is the result of an active construction process rather than of a more or less passive representational mapping from the environment of an objective world onto subjective cognitive structures. Therefore, knowledge is a system-related cognitive process (Peschl & Riegler 1999).

4. It is futile to claim that knowledge approaches observer-independent reality; instead, reality is brought forth by the subject
The second aspect of von Glasersfeld’s position is, “the function of cognition is adaptive and serves the organization of the experiential world, not the discovery of ontological reality” (Glasersfeld 1995: 18), which means that, “those who merely speak of the construction of knowledge, but do not explicitly give up the notion that our conceptual constructions can or should in some way represent an independent, ‘objective’ reality, are still caught up in the traditional theory of knowledge” (Glasersfeld 1991: 16)

5. Constructivist approaches entertain an agnostic relationship with any observer-independent reality
Observer-independent reality is considered beyond our cognitive horizon. Any reference to it should be refrained from. Rudolf Carnap expressed the necessity of this aspect already in 1935 by saying that
“we reject the thesis of the Reality of the physical world;
but we do not reject it as false, but as having no sense, and its Idealistic anti-thesis is subject to exactly the same rejection.
We neither assert nor deny these theses, we reject the whole question.”
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15719
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

contd.....

6. The focus of research moves from the world that consists of matter to the world that consists of what matters
Since the cognitive apparatus brings forth the world out of experiences, our understanding of what we are used to refer to as “reality” does not root in the discovery of absolute observer-independent structures but rather in the “the operations by means of which we assemble our experiential world” (Glasersfeld 1984: 17). Von Foerster emphasized that instead of being concerned with “observed systems” the focus of attention shifts to “observing systems” (Foerster 1979; -8 ).

7. Constructivist approaches focus on self-referential and organizationally closed systems
Such systems strive for control over their inputs rather than their outputs.

The cognitive system (mind) is operationally closed.
It interacts necessarily only with its own states (Maturana & Varela 1979).
The nervous system is “a closed network of interacting neurons such that any change in the state of relative activity of a collection of neurons leads to a change in the state of relative activity of other or the same collection of neurons” (Winograd & Flores 1986: 42).
This is a consequence of the neurophysiological principle of undifferentiated encoding: “The response of a nerve cell does not encode the physical nature of the agents that caused its response” (Foerster 2003: 293).
Humberto Maturana suggested that we can compare the situation of the mind with a pilot using instruments to fly the plane.
All he does is “manipulate the instruments of the plane according to a certain path of change in their readings” (Maturana 1978: 42).
In other words, the pilot doesn’t even need to look “outside.”
The enactive cognitive science paradigm expresses clearly: “...autonomous systems stand in sharp contrast to systems whose coupling with the environment is specified through input/output relations the meaning of this or that interaction for a living system is not prescribed from outside but is the result of the organization and history of the system itself.” (Varela, Thompson & Rosch 1991: 157).

8. Constructivist approaches favor a process-oriented approach rather than a substance-based perspective
Following Maturana, living systems are defined by processes whereby they constitute and maintain their own organization. Their structure refers to the “actual relations which hold between the components which integrate a concrete machine in a given space” (Maturana & Varela 1979) while their organization defines the “dynamics of interactions and transformations” a system may undergo. Material aspects are therefore secondary.

9. Constructivist approaches emphasize the “individual as personal scientist” approach…
…as their starting point is the cognitive capacity of the experiencing subject.

Sociality is defined as accommodating within the framework of social interaction.
While social interaction is not considered a new quality in contrast to interacting with non-living entities, its complexity is acknowledged.
However, society is not a priori given, not the “social precedes the personal” (Gergen 1997).
Rather, “society” must be conceptually analyzed.
Constructivism is also rather pragmatic about “common knowledge” such as texts.
They “contain neither meaning nor knowledge – they are a scaffolding on which readers can build their interpretation” (Glasersfeld 1992: 175).

10. Constructivism asks for an open pluralistic approach to science…
…in order to generate the plasticity that is needed to cope with the scientific frontier.

Also today’s knowledge-based society must be assessed through its ability and willingness to continuously revise knowledge.
Krohn (1997) refers to it as “the society of self-experimentation.” Luhmann (1994) defines knowledge as schemata that are regarded as true but ready to be changed.
Constructivism must be considered as a way to forgo the dogmatism that prevents science from becoming ever more fruitful and productive.
This list is deliberately painted with a big brush.
Rather than limit future developments right from the onset, the list wants to give the necessary latitude to future authors in Constructivist Foundations to further extend the constructivist program.
This is the constructivist challenge the journal seeks to explore.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 8943
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Constructivism necessarily results in relativism. The problem with VA is that he wants a constructivist single source of truth which is a self-defeating enterprise.

All you need to do is create your own moral FSK out of different ingredients to the one VA uses and you have an equally valid FSK to his.

Side note: has he ever admitted tobeing a constructivist before? I thought he always claims "strawman" when that word crops up.
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 10729
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Harbal »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:01 am Constructivism necessarily results in relativism. The problem with VA is that he wants a constructivist single source of truth which is a self-defeating enterprise.

All you need to do is create your own moral FSK out of different ingredients to the one VA uses and you have an equally valid FSK to his.

Side note: has he ever admitted tobeing a constructivist before? I thought he always claims "strawman" when that word crops up.
Someone should lock him in a room with Peter -crackpot- Kropotkin for a day. It would teach both of them a lesson.
Last edited by Harbal on Mon May 15, 2023 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 8943
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Harbal wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:19 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:01 am Constructivism necessarily results in relativism. The problem with VA is that he wants a constructivist single source of truth which is a self-defeating enterprise.

All you need to do is create your own moral FSK out of different ingredients to the one VA uses and you have an equally valid FSK to his.

Side note: has he ever admitted tobeing a constructivist before? I thought he always claims "strawman" when that word crops up.
Someone should lock him in a room with Peter -crackpot- Kropotkin for a day. I would teach both of them a lesson.
Previously unseen footage of Vegetable "moral database" Ambulance meeting Pisspot "funniest greeter at Walmart" KrapTin.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 8806
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 10:48 am 10. Constructivism asks for an open pluralistic approach to science…

So, room for Peter Holme's realism, then.
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Skepdick »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:01 am Constructivism necessarily results in relativism.
Exactly. But so what? That is strategically desirable in a language game with mutual exclusivity.

Constructivism only results in factual relativism, not a moral relativism.

I say murder is right.
You say murder is wrong.

If constructivism is true then both descriptions are equally valid. Neither is worse or better; true or false. The end.

But because resolution between these two perspectives exists; and by modus tollens... the objectivity of morality falsifies constructivism.

Heads - you lose.
Tails - I win.
Last edited by Skepdick on Mon May 15, 2023 11:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
Flannel Jesus
Posts: 4304
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:09 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Flannel Jesus »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:27 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 10:48 am 10. Constructivism asks for an open pluralistic approach to science…
So, room for Peter Holme's realism, then.
Also, look at #5. #5 doesn't sound like VA. He doesn't seem particularly agnostic about it
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Skepdick »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:27 am So, room for Peter Holme's realism, then.
The reason to be intolerant of realism is because it's the orthodoxy and yet its disciples are intolerant of its rejection.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 8806
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Iwannaplato »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:40 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:27 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 10:48 am 10. Constructivism asks for an open pluralistic approach to science…
So, room for Peter Holme's realism, then.
Also, look at #5. #5 doesn't sound like VA. He doesn't seem particularly agnostic about it
No, he doesn't (except when he does, but not usually).

He does say in the beginning that Constructivism and his beliefs are not totally in line. It's the appeal to authority tucked in here....
[While not in totality, the fundamentals of my views are in alignment with that of 'Constructivism', which also support my views on why Morality is Objective.
He finds a philosophical position that is similar to his and treats this as evidence he is correct.

In contrast he could actually read for undertanding how the contructivists deal with realists, then apply those arguments to responses to or challenges to PH and other realists. Instead he just flings a wikipedia-type summary of contructivist assertions at us as if this adds any strength to what he has said.
Flannel Jesus
Posts: 4304
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:09 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Flannel Jesus »

Do constructivists all, or mostly, agree with objective morality? And do they do so because of their constructivist ideals?

That's how I'm interpreting " 'Constructivism'... also support my views on why Morality is Objective." Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Skepdick »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:40 pm Do constructivists all, or mostly, agree with objective morality? And do they do so because of their constructivist ideals?

That's how I'm interpreting " 'Constructivism'... also support my views on why Morality is Objective." Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly
Constructivists understand relativism.

From a constructivist perspective everything is socially-constructed (and therefore relative). Philosophy. Mathematics. Logic. Science. Morality.

Despite that societies have no problem agreeing on objective Philosophical/Mathematical/Logical/Scientific facts. So why are moral facts an exception?

It's really tiresome having to point out to people that relativism doesn't preclude objective morality.
Even in general relativity the existence and speed of light are NOT relative.
Peter Holmes
Posts: 4134
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:53 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Peter Holmes »

Constructivism is the delusion that to construct a model of reality is to construct reality. (If it were, of what is the model a model?)

Constructivism is empirico-rationalism revamped / Kantianism pimped up for a new but equally gullible audience.
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Skepdick »

Peter Holmes wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:19 pm Constructivism is the delusion that to construct a model of reality is to construct reality. (If it were, of what is the model a model?)

Constructivism is empirico-rationalism revamped / Kantianism pimped up for a new but equally gullible audience.
And realism is the dellusion that the term "reality" has a referent outside of language.

It's logocentrism. Not even revamped - same old shit.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 8806
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: What is Constructivism? Common Denominators

Post by Iwannaplato »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:40 pm Do constructivists all, or mostly, agree with objective morality? And do they do so because of their constructivist ideals?

That's how I'm interpreting " 'Constructivism'... also support my views on why Morality is Objective." Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly
There are a lot of constructivisism, some realist, some antirealist, some somewhere in the middle.
As far as morals....it's also all over the place. Here's one fun position in contructivism...
Korsgaard points to an assumption she believes that realists and antirealists share and that constructivists reject, namely, that the primary function of concepts deployed in judgments that can be true or false is to represent things as they are, so if normative judgments are true, they must represent something real out there in the world. By contrast, constructivists think that normative concepts, which are deployed in judgments that can be true or false, have a practical function: they name solutions to practical problems, rather than represent features of reality (Korsgaard 2008: 302 ff.). For instance, the concept equity does not stand for a property; instead, it proposes a response to the practical problem of how to distribute goods. Korsgaard draws the contrast between constructivism and other metaethical theories as follows. Unlike substantive realism, which holds that moral judgments are true insofar as they represent a mind-independent normative reality, and antirealism, which denies that there are normative truths because it denies that there are normative properties, constructivists hold that practical judgments can be true or false without representing mind-independent normative facts about the world (Korsgaard 2003: 325 n 49).
But here you can find that some constructivists will say things that PH does and others that VA does and others that would likely shake their heads at both of them....
https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities ... 0discovery.
Post Reply