Does the "Free Will" point of view affect morals and character?

[Wizard22]

I know exactly what YOU think, FJ.

As outlined from Belinda above. No amount of knowledge, aka no amount of freedom, can lead a Determinist to belief in Free-Will? Why not? Because Free-Will is disconnected from the Act of Choice. Determinism is then predicated entirely on what is Known or Knowable, not and never regarding what is Unknown or Unknowable. This is why the Free-Willists are directly contrasted, and opposite of Determinism. There is no 'Compatible' solution. Belinda then goes on and posits Free-Will-ism as "supernatural", because of this rationale she spelled out. This is why she, and other Determinists, contradict themselves when it comes to 'fortune, chance, luck'. Because it doesn't make any logical sense in a (Pre)Determined Universe.

Since Determinists rest entirely on what is Known, this is why they/you have the 'backward' perspective in terms of Choosing. As popeye repeatedly claims, everything is Reactive, not Active, and not Inter-active. Why? Because again, Determinism is based on the Known (the Past), not what is Unknown (the Present and Future).


Now, before you continue implying that "I don't know", I hereby REQUIRE that you read this thread from page One, to Now, before further criticisms or interruptions.

Thank you.

[Flannel Jesus]

Your whole post again just shows how little you understand.

[Wizard22]

In short, no amount of Knowledge...aka no amount of Freedom, can lead a Determinist to "Free-Will".

Except, arguably complete Omniscience and Omnipotence. This is why Determinists claim that Free-Will is "supernatural" (when it's not).

[Flannel Jesus]

In short, no amount of Knowledge...aka no amount of Freedom, can lead a Determinist to "Free-Will".

Except, arguably complete Omniscience and Omnipotence. This is why Determinists claim that Free-Will is "supernatural" (when it's not).

Another fantastic example

[Flannel Jesus]

How about this:

Instead of TELLING Belinda "Determinists believe that knowing more about Causality, means you are less free", why don't you just ASK Belinda if that's what she thinks?

[Wizard22]

Because she's already told me, from her words above? Why ask her to repeat herself?

No amount of "freedom" to her, and you, leads to "free-will".

You can admit this too. You shouldn't feel ashamed about it, right?

[Flannel Jesus]

Because she's already told me, from her words above? Why ask her to repeat herself?

You couldn't quote it

[popeye1945]

If one is not free to not react to their environment, which is the case, even a considered lack of response to a given circumstance is a reaction to the environment. This is the case for all reactionary organisms. You cannot be of this world and not react to the greater environment, because that involves being of the world. Where is the free will here, when one is in the dark as to what formulated the historical nature of a given circumstance? The earth is the major player and cause to all creatures in their reactionary natures, reaction being the method of belonging and contributing as part of the earth as a whole. The belief in free will is a lobotomy performed on humanity by the most unfortunate of mythologies human culture has ever produced.

[Wizard22]

You couldn't quote it

Makes no difference, hence why I said "Determinists". I'll find it.

In the meantime, it may help you to actually read the threads you participate in and interrupt. Show some respect to the OP maybe?

[Wizard22]

Where is the free will here, when one is in the dark as to what formulated the historical nature of a given circumstance?

It is as you say ..."in the dark".

That's where Free-Will is.

Into the Unknown.

Turn your mind forward, from the past, into the present and future. Act, do not React.

[Flannel Jesus]

You couldn't quote it

Makes no difference, hence why I said "Determinists". I'll find it.

In the meantime, it may help you to actually read the threads you participate in and interrupt. Show some respect to the OP maybe?

That's absurd lol. Especially coming from you, who can't follow individual posts, nevermind reading pages and pages of threads. It's not a reasonable request, or a useful one, and it would at least make more sense if it was coming from someone who could read other people's posts

And of course it makes a difference. You said determinists all think this, and yet you can't even show that one determinist thinks this.

[popeye1945]

Where is the free will here, when one is in the dark as to what formulated the historical nature of a given circumstance?

It is as you say ..."in the dark".

That's where Free-Will is.

Into the Unknown.

Turn your mind forward, from the past, into the present and future. Act, do not React.

Wizard22,
Perhaps you would like to give me an example of human action, which in itself infers free will, and not reaction. Personally, I don't believe there is such an example. Any response to the outside world must be motivated, and motivated spells to me reaction, to be motivated one must be moved within before one can move without----reaction.

[Wizard22]

That's absurd lol. Especially coming from you, who can't follow individual posts, nevermind reading pages and pages of threads. It's not a reasonable request, or a useful one, and it would at least make more sense if it was coming from someone who could read other people's posts

And of course it makes a difference. You said determinists all think this, and yet you can't even show that one determinist thinks this.

I did not say "all".

And it's beside-the-point that no amount of knowledge/freedom will lead Belinda to free-will by her own admission.

[Wizard22]

Wizard22,
Perhaps you would like to give me an example of human action, which in itself infers action not reaction. Personally, I don't believe there is such an example. Any response to the outside world must be motivated, and motivated spells to me reaction.

Man leaving Earth aboard a rocket.

[popeye1945]

Wizard22,
Perhaps you would like to give me an example of human action, which in itself infers action not reaction. Personally, I don't believe there is such an example. Any response to the outside world must be motivated, and motivated spells to me reaction.

Man leaving Earth aboard a rocket.

You are inferring this is not motivated?