Atheism

[Harbal]

I see no difference between you sayin'...

There is a foundation on which I declare certain things to be morally wrong. That foundation is my own sense of morality.

...and my assessment...

Harbal, admits, quite courageously, there's no foundation, for him, to declare cannibalism (or anything) as objectively evil or wrong.

It is true that I don't believe there to be a source of human morality other than within and between human beings.

Just out of interest: what is your foundation for declaring cannibalism objectively wrong?

[attofishpi]

also u can't be like 'but wait... u can also start your own business and live the american dream. that's the freedom given to u by the great idea that is this great nation yada yada.'

naw u can't do that becuz in two hunerd years the wealth gap is getting bigger not smaller. and don't make me bust out stats cuz I'll go pull links from Rosa's stuff bro, and u know what happens when i do that.

So wot?

https://youtu.be/_TjzdbNwTCY

Sow what?

Sow what?

Sow what?

Sow what?

Sow wot>?

[Harbal]

If any view of what morality is is true, then it has to be useful to people in making various moral decisions. Some of these are personal, but some are also familial, social, institutional, national, judicial, policy-producing, and so on. I'm just wondering how your view of morality serves such cases; and if it doesn't, then should we not ask, is it an adequate view of morality?

My view of morality influences my conduct, and that is all I am entitled to require of it.

Fair enough for you, of course. But not useful to anybody else, apparently.

It seems obvious that a person's morality is mainly conditioned by the culture he is born and raised in, so others don't have to rely on me to give them their moral values, they acquire them from their cultural environment.

Your approach doesn't offer any wisdom for deciding policy, or shaping a social ethos, or managing the laws of a nation, or structuring a penal code, or managing the ethics of a technology, or preserving rights, or any of the other essential social functions morality is supposed to serve.

I don't have an approach.

I assume, therefore, that you also can't recommend it to anyone. There is, apparently, no particular reason to do so. It doesn't offer anybody any moral guidance. It just says, "X is what Harbal uses to shape his conduct, but there's no special reason you should use X at all."

Okay, if you are going to assume that about me, I will also assume it about you.

[Harbal]

Your approach doesn't offer any wisdom for deciding policy, or shaping a social ethos, or managing the laws of a nation, or structuring a penal code, or managing the ethics of a technology, or preserving rights, or any of the other essential social functions morality is supposed to serve.

Oh dear. You’ve effectively just asked Harbal to pass through boyhood, develop the mental equivalent of testicles, and actually think things through.

Or I could just do what you do and read a book full of someone else's thoughts.

[Dontaskme]

Your approach doesn't offer any wisdom for deciding policy, or shaping a social ethos, or managing the laws of a nation, or structuring a penal code, or managing the ethics of a technology, or preserving rights, or any of the other essential social functions morality is supposed to serve.

Oh dear. You’ve effectively just asked Harbal to pass through boyhood, develop the mental equivalent of testicles, and actually think things through.

Oh dear, you are just so wrong about Harbal. So Wrong!
Hell yes, just simply wrong.

Harbal is ALL MAN... You really have no idea.

[Harbal]

Your approach doesn't offer any wisdom for deciding policy, or shaping a social ethos, or managing the laws of a nation, or structuring a penal code, or managing the ethics of a technology, or preserving rights, or any of the other essential social functions morality is supposed to serve.

Oh dear. You’ve effectively just asked Harbal to pass through boyhood, develop the mental equivalent of testicles, and actually think things through.

Oh dear, you are just so wrong about Harbal. So Wrong!
Hell yes, just simply wrong.

Harbal is ALL MAN... You really have no idea.

Don't give him any details; I'm saving that for my memoires.

[Dontaskme]

Oh dear. You’ve effectively just asked Harbal to pass through boyhood, develop the mental equivalent of testicles, and actually think things through.

Oh dear, you are just so wrong about Harbal. So Wrong!
Hell yes, just simply wrong.

Harbal is ALL MAN... You really have no idea.

Don't give him any details; I'm saving that for my memoires.

Don't worry Harbal, I'll never disclose the open secrets available to all of us women what constitutes intelligent males.

[Sculptor]

…

Might interest you. I wonder if this is accurate info?

Thanks.

Notes:
1. I do no think the EU would fall without NATO.
2. My feeling is that the US thinks that, and many in Europe think that.
3. Thus it is has been for the last 75 years in the interests of the US to keep Russia an enemy since that helps US political power over Europe.
4. Despite Glasnost and Perestroika the unnecessary persistence of NATO has been promoted to increase US power in Europe.
5. I think the US military/industrial complex choses all the candidates for sure. SO whatever the colour black, red, blue, white they are all bought and paid for by a tiny group of newspaper owners, and arms dealers.
6. Elephant in the room: Yep David Kelly was murdered. I have no proof. It's just more likely than suicide.

Thanks for the link

[Dontaskme]

Have you ever seen this 'me' that told you?

I see my mug everyday, in the mirror (when I bother to shave).

There is no 'henry' known as 'me' in the mirror, you cannot shave the beard in the mirror to remove the beard.

can you tell yourself what the 'me' that told you what you are not looks like?

I don't have to tell myself what I look like. As I say: I see my mug everyday.

The seer, or seeing can only see a reflection of itself, and a reflection is the production of an image by or as if by a mirror image of what is actually imageless. If the mirror wasn't imageless, it wouldn't be able to reflect an image. Does the image reflect, or does the imageless reflect?

And also would you like to share what a 'not an atheist'' looks like?

I won't post a picture, no. I can describe myself if you like.

Well even if you did post a picture of what a 'not an atheist' looks like, it wouldn't be anything at all, because a picture is not a live conscious living entity. So you wouldn't be able to say what a 'not an atheist' looks like even if you tried to describe it by posting a picture of it. You can talk about one as though it existed, but it would only exist as an image of the imageless.

[Dontaskme]

Your approach doesn't offer any wisdom for deciding policy, or shaping a social ethos, or managing the laws of a nation, or structuring a penal code, or managing the ethics of a technology, or preserving rights, or any of the other essential social functions morality is supposed to serve.

Oh dear. You’ve effectively just asked Harbal to pass through boyhood, develop the mental equivalent of testicles, and actually think things through.

Or I could just do what you do and read a book full of someone else's thoughts.

[Dontaskme]

THere is a very good reason that Russia is feeling defensive.

NATO and the Warsaw pact were born after the end of WW2m when an "iron" curtain" metaphorically fell between east and west.
Not literally iron but a metaphor by Churchill.

When Gorbachev brought in Glasnost, and Perestroika the Warsaw pact was dissolved and so was the raison d'etre of NATO.
So why did NATO miss the golden opportunity for peace and rather than also dissolve continued to march eastwards?

Why would Russia not feel under threat; a country who took the brunt of wastern aggression in the shape of German imperialism in 2 world wars.

TO understand Ukraine you have to understand that psychology.
THis map might help, though the source is not particularly sensitive to the idea
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/19/two-map ... -1990.html

[Dontaskme]

…

Might interest you. I wonder if this is accurate info?

Thanks.

Notes:
1. I do no think the EU would fall without NATO.
2. My feeling is that the US thinks that, and many in Europe think that.
3. Thus it is has been for the last 75 years in the interests of the US to keep Russia an enemy since that helps US political power over Europe.
4. Despite Glasnost and Perestroika the unnecessary persistence of NATO has been promoted to increase US power in Europe.
5. I think the US military/industrial complex choses all the candidates for sure. SO whatever the colour black, red, blue, white they are all bought and paid for by a tiny group of newspaper owners, and arms dealers.
6. Elephant in the room: Yep David Kelly was murdered. I have no proof. It's just more likely than suicide.

Thanks for the link

This conversation is dismissed with immediate effect.
It belongs here...viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34290
Thanks for your gracious understanding and polite cooperation.

[Gary Childress]

Gary, Gary, Gary...just watch the news, and you'll find plenty. Or read a history book. Or visit a courtroom or jail. Just leave the house once in a while, and that'll be enough.

What makes you think I have not done those things?

You do. If you had, you wouldn't even ask the question.

You don't know who I am, do you? All you see is a "godless heathen" or whatever. Do you not think we are all God's children? Do you not think God is here to help you? Do you not have faith in God?

[Gary Childress]

IC, I understand your fear. I am here to help with that. That is all I know. You must have faith. You must let go of fear.

[Gary Childress]

Oh dear. You’ve effectively just asked Harbal to pass through boyhood, develop the mental equivalent of testicles, and actually think things through.

Oh dear, you are just so wrong about Harbal. So Wrong!
Hell yes, just simply wrong.

Harbal is ALL MAN... You really have no idea.

Don't give him any details; I'm saving that for my memoires.

Harbal. You need to become agnostic. You do not know what is going on. We need you to just be agnostic. It is important for you to see that we do not know such things as whether or not there is a God. We do not know.