mental concepts/representations...

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Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1967
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

mental concepts/representations...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

as I am engaged in studying "German idealism"
from Kant to Hegel, and it has gotten me to thinking
about one particular word... "representation"

my handy dandy dictionary says:

representation: the speaking or acting on behalf of someone
or the state of being so represented...

and further down comes this:

(in some theories of perception) a mental state or concept regarded as
corresponding to a thing perceived...

so my mental concept of a statue stands for or represents an actual
or an imagined statue...I can just as easily have the concept of
real statue or an imagined statue....

we hold to representations as concepts or beliefs about real
or imagined things, in our minds...these concepts or representations,
are supposed to represent what is true or real outside of our mind...
now the question arises, or to be accurate, ought to arise,
is this question, how do we know that our mental concepts
or representations are true or real?

what is our justification for believing that any particular mental
concept or representation, is a stand in for a real/true object...
the philosophical way to work out what is real/true in the
world is called "epistemology" which is defined as...

epistemology: the theory of knowledge, especially in regard to
its methods, validity, and scope..

the question becomes, how do we know that our mental concepts
are real/true? let us take one mental concept... Santa Claus...
all of us, have a concept of Santa Claus...a mental picture if you will....
but in fact, is there such a thing as Santa Claus? and what is the value
in the creation of a mental image of Santa Claus?

I believe that the mental image or representation of Santa Claus,
is meant as a tool to ''encourage" children to behave...it is a moral devise
to encourage children to behave "correctly" to gain a reward, gifts from
Santa....does the concept of Santa have any bearing on the actual
day of Christmas, in which people celebrate the birth of Jesus? No...
I can't spot any direct connection with Santa and the birth of Jesus...
and yet, we have a mental connection, a mental image of Santa
coming down chimneys every Christmas with gifts for the good boys
and girls of the world... but upon further reflection, we might come
up with this.... the connection between Jesus and Santa might be
in the idea that if we believe in these concepts, we will be rewarded....
tying to connect children's minds to heaven is a tough sell,
it is a pretty abstract idea, but if we can connect children to
the concept of a man who rewards us if we are good or bad, that
is an easier sell...toys are something that children understand..
it is easier to sell children on being good so that they are
rewarded.. just as we say, holding to a belief in god, will
get someone rewarded by going to heaven... Santa is just
a secular method of connecting morals/ethics with being
good and one that will get one rewarded...

it is really a conditioning method.... it conditions children
to think about faith in something will get rewarded...no
faith in Jesus will get hell and no faith in Santa means no
presents...but all of that is done as a concept, a representation
in the mind....

as a child's mind is a simple mind, a child can't really do
abstract thinking.... and a mental concept within the mind,
a representation is hard for children... representations
or mental concepts are not "a prior" in the mind before experience...
or Santa or Jesus would be present in the mind
before children experienced them....and we know that a mental
image or concept must be taught to children... because
what mental concepts or representations are already present in
children's mind before we teach it to them? As a parent,
I can tell you that a child has no mental concepts or representations,
before experience......the idea of Santa Claus is widespread throughout
the west in news, the state, religion, the media, movies, and within
the family structure.... it is a concept that we teach to children...
to encourage good behavior... I still remember the day when I was
6 and my older sister told me that there was no Santa Claus who
gave me presents... my parents were the ones who gave me the presents...
I doubted, and so she showed me where the Christmas presents were
hidden in the house... I was shocked to say the least...
but as a mental concept, a representation in the mind,
I was over it by age 7... and we outgrow many mental
images or concepts as we age.. the Easter Bunny, the Tooth
Fairy are some of the mental representations we outgrow
as we age from small children to larger children to teenagers
and then young adults.. and what mental concepts or
representations do we have as adults?

the mental concept of the American dream... if you work hard
and keep your nose to the grindstone, you will be rewarded...
just another version of Santa Claus...but more abstract....
and there is no proof of this concept or representation is
any more real/true than Santa....

the reality is that our concepts or mental representations can be
wrong or simply not true... that our concepts do not correspond
to reality... the conservative/Machiavelli idea/mental concept
that we are born with a certain disposition to good or evil
and we cannot ever change that disposition... an leopard
cannot change its spots is the way that Machiavelli describes it...
but that idea is nothing more than a mental concept,
a representation within the mind.... and with no more basis
in reality than Santa...

so, we must discover what mental images or mental concepts
we have in our minds and see if they actually correspond to
reality... this is done by what Nietzsche called "overcoming"
a reexamination of our values and beliefs and see if they
actually have some validity or truth to them...

I hold that a good deal of the world's problems lies in
the fact that most of our mental concepts are false,
not base on reality/or the truth... our mental representations
have no basis or little basis in reality.. and we live as if, as if
those mental representations have reality.... so, we live
and hold beliefs and act upon the idea, the mental concept
or representation that there is a god... for example...
but there is no actual evidence or facts that support this
mental image... this representation within the mind...
it is much like the concept of Santa, we believe in it until
we don't... and much like the concept of Santa, we can and
in fact, must outgrow the mental concept of god if we
are to seek out what it means to be human....

so the real exploration is not defeating dragons or becoming
millionaires but in our understanding of the mental concepts we
have and then overcoming them to grow up a little bit more...
going from animal to animal-human to becoming fully human...
going from full belief in such mental concepts of a Santa or
the easter bunny or god to an mental concept that
allow us to become human... and what concepts or
mental presentations should we engage with?

that human existence is simply an engagement with
the possibilities that we, each of us, have present within
ourselves... that is the freedom, or being free actually means...
when people talk about freedom, it is about our reaching our
possibilities that we have in each of us... because as I have pointed
out in an earlier post, we are limited in our actual freedoms...
we are limited by the various laws of physics, evolution, thermodynamics,
gravity... we cannot be free to do something that is not
possible under the laws of science.. we lack this freedom...
we also are politically, socially, economically limited....
we are not free to shout fire in a theater... and for good reason...
we are not free to assault other people... and I think that is a good
thing...to exist within human society, to maintain order, to keep
the peace, we must be limited to what actions we can take...
for the state to succeed or for society to succeed, we
agree to this limited ability to act, or to be free.....

refusal to limit ourselves will lead us to Hobbes ''state of nature''
the war of all against all...

so if we are not free to act or to speak, then what is left?
the seeking out of our possibilities of being human...
for me, that is seeking out becoming the best philosopher I can be,
for another, it might be seeking out wealth and for another,
it might mean running the mile in 4:00 minutes...
as we each have different possibilities because we each have
different talents and abilities and choices.... that is the real choice/freedom
we have as human beings..... in seeking out what is possible for us...

and how do we begin this?

by understanding what mental concepts/ representations we have
in our minds and exploring if those concepts have any actual
basis in reality...

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1967
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Re: mental concepts/representations...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

so how might we think about mental representations
or concepts?

that they are the result of our childhood indoctrinations
and beliefs.. just as Santa Claus was one such indoctrination...
and the question becomes, we are just going to accept
and act upon our childhood indoctrinations because
we are too lazy or too cowardly to examine them...
it is a scary thing to reexamine our values and beliefs
because what if we are wrong in holding those beliefs/values?
what might we think of ourselves or more accurately,
what might others think of us if we are wrong about
some of the beliefs and values we hold?

This fear of others, of being wrong in the eyes of others,
drives much of human actions... we see this in women...
many women have a deep fear of what others think of them...
guys slightly less so... women are mortified that others might
think ''less'' of them due to holding values/beliefs that are not
"acceptable" or think less of them from actions or inactions....

and much of this stems from our knowledge of Maslow's pyramid..
that our seeking in the psychological needs we have, is in
our need for esteem, a sense of belonging, these drives are
as important to human beings as eating, drinking water,
shelter or health care.... the bodily needs that must
be met....

another aspect of mental concepts/representation lies in
our ego... we want to look good or better in front of people...
again, we act in terms of how it looks or appears to others...
that we human beings base much of our own understanding of
self within the eyes of others.... I see who I am, based
upon how others feel or think about me... our own mental
representation of who we are comes in large part about
how others see us...

personally, I want others to see me as smart or intelligent....
not as good looking or wealthy (I'm not) or witty
or kind... those values based on my own mental representation
of myself.... I am a front end manager at a grocery store...
I have a hard time understanding if I am doing a good job
or a shitty job, because I can't get any feedback from the managers
above me...I am flying blind because I have no sense of how I am
doing my job...knowing that people, including me, quite often
have a flawed mental representation of who they are and the
job they do, I can't trust my own judgement as to how I am doing,
because that may or may not be a flawed judgement based on ego,
and not on facts or evidence....

finding out if I am doing a good job at work, needs and depends
upon the judgement of others... I need the input of others to
understand what I am doing....and here again, we have a mental
concept or a representation of my own job performance and
we have what others may or may not think... the two
may be similar or they may be completely different....
until I get some feedback, I have no way of knowing....

so in many aspects of our life, we have to have some input of
others to understand how we are doing...

I may have correct mental understanding or representation of
the job I am doing or I may not.... but until I get some feedback,
I don't know.....

now perhaps that is the role that god or Santa plays for human beings...
to provide us with thoughts from the "other" and this in terms of
moral/ethics..... we see our actions and behavior in terms
of feedback we get and we can use the ethics/morals of the bible
as feedback in our understanding of who we are and what it is we
are supposed to be doing......

thou shall not kill... I didn't kill today, so that feedback tells me
or gives me some insight into my morals/ethics, as least for today...
who is to say about tomorrow?

perhaps that is the real role of religion.... to offer us some thoughts
from the "other" as to our moral/ethical state today...and we can
compare/contrast these thoughts from the 'other" to our own mental
concepts or representations we have of ourselves....
that might be the value or use of religion....
to give us the "other"

Kropotkin
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Agent Smith
Posts: 1435
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:23 pm

Re: mental concepts/representations...

Post by Agent Smith »

I can see there are at least 3 participants in the game. Everybody knows that! Yeah, but I met this guy, if you call bumping into him and spilling his masala tea meeting. He looked at me, bowed his head, and said I should be more careful.
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