Atheism

[Gary Childress]

I don't want to understand you, Gary, and I do want you to know I have no ill-will toward you, but this is a philosophy forum and if we are not decided that we will be hard, harsh, direct and intolerant of fallacious ideas, we must in my view welcome the most strenuous assaults on our *cherished notions*. I refrain from offering advice. I simply describe what I see, and express my own views.

There are far more empowering personal philosophies and religious modes. And I can think of one where turning off the energy-leak valve of obsessive masturbation would be Step One.

then you'll need to convince me

Fuck off! But I do not say that with negative animus. Get yourself a faggot-pal so at least you'll have company in your jerk-off sessions. Masturbate, then complain, then masturbate some more.

I will not ever condescend to *convince* you of anything as if you are a puppy needing training.

Oh, and AJ, I'm sorry for you that you didn't want to see my comments about my sex life.

You certainly do not need to offer me any explanations or justifications, Gary. Carry on as you wish. On all levels!

Fair enough. You seem to have the same opinion of me that I do of you. Good luck and fair winds for both of us, hopefully.

[Alexis Jacobi]

...

There are some good versions of Lucretius, both in poem and prose. Here is a poeticrendering:

“You see that stones are worn away by time,
Rocks rot, and towers topple, even the shrines
And images of the gods grow very tired,
Develop crack or wrinkles, their holy wills
Unable to extend their fated term,
To litigate against the Laws of Nature.
And don't we see the monuments of men
Collapse, as if to ask us, "Are not we
As frail as those whom we commemorate?"?
Boulders come plunging down from the mountain heights,
Poor weaklings with no power to resist
The thrust that says to them, Your time has come!
But they would be rooted in steadfastness
Had they endured from time beyond all time,
As far back as infinity. Look about you!
Whatever it is that holds in its embrace
All earth, if it projects, as some men say,
All things out of itself, and takes them back
When they have perished, must itself consist
Of mortal elements. The parts must add
Up to the sum. Whatever gives away
Must lose in the procedure, and gain again
Whenever it takes back.”

[Alexis Jacobi]

You seem to have the same opinion of me that I do of you.

Oh? You have an opinion? Of me? And you say it is the same? Hmmmm. Who'd have guessed?!

[Gary Childress]

You seem to have the same opinion of me that I do of you.

Oh? You have an opinion? Of me? And you say it is the same? Hmmmm. Who'd have guessed?!

How does it feel to have someone else share their opinion of you, AJ? If you would like any advice on how to deal with low self-esteem, feel free to drop me a line. Otherwise, handle it yourself. You're a big boy with big boy pants. I'll leave it up to you.

[Sculptor]

I don't know about you guys, but for me, logical arguments for the existence or non existence of gods always seem immensely unsatisfying. Like, I've never read a logical argument either direction and been satisfied by it.

I've read logical arguments about the non existence of specific gods and thought they were maybe a little reasonable, at best, but never gods in general. To me, I suppose it seems like more of an empirical question than a logical one. What should we expect to see if there was a god or god's? What should we expect to see if there wasn't? What do we in fact see?

I would try to approach it as a Bayesian. There's little bits of evidence in both directions, and some people interpret some of that evidence strongly in one direction while other people think it shouldn't be considered that strong of evidence.

But regardless of the disagreements we might have about what each piece of evidence means, I think the bayesian approach seems ultimately more fruitful and satisfying.

It seems to me that the only arguments for the existence of God come from there being religious texts. It is their existence that is the supposed evidence, rather than their content. Without them, the inexplicable things some people seem to encounter during the course of their lives could be explained by any number of imaginative theories. All religious texts were written by human beings, and we know how fallible, biased and dishonest human beings can be, so, if you must have a story, why not just write your own?

I agree 100% with what you say above, Harbal. That's the most rational approach to religion of any kind that I'm aware of. If I'm wrong and there is a particular "God" out there, then perhaps I'm fucked. But I can't obey every mandate of everyone's God in order to cover all the possibilities of who that specific "God" is or what sort of conduct that "God" wants from me. Fuck it! I'll strike out on my own.

Let's face it, had we not been born into western culture in the 20thC, we'd not be talking about "God" (the guy with the white beard who had a son who was himself, whom he had killed to redeem the sins of the human race whom he created in order to receive the redemption for the death of him,,, urghhdhhss sdakekfuck).
That god, rather than Zeus or the Willandorf Venus, or Kali, or a fucking blue faced baboon riding on the back of a fucking turtle.
or some other shit.

Atheism is the only stance that makes any fucking sense.

[Dontaskme]

As far as I can tell, there's no God who says anything, including the "F word" or otherwise.

The only God available is the God you create via the word. And who are you man?

Man has to be saved from God.

Not that he should become anti-God or an atheist. The theist (the believer in God), the non-believer in God, and the one that comes in between and calls himself an "agnostic" all of them are in the same boat.

God is the ultimate pleasure, uninterrupted happiness. No such thing exists. Your wanting something that does not exist is the root of your problem. Transformation, moksha, liberation, and all that stuff are just variations on the same theme: permanent happiness.

All your experiences, all your meditations, all your prayer, all that you do, is self-centred. It is strengthening the self, adding momentum, gathering momentum, so it is taking you in the opposite direction. Whatever you do to be free from the self also is a self-centred activity.

There is nothing there, only your relative, experiential data, your truth.

[Alexis Jacobi]

You seem to have the same opinion of me that I do of you.

Oh? You have an opinion? Of me? And you say it is the same? Hmmmm. Who'd have guessed?!

How does it feel to have someone else share their opinion of you, AJ? If you would like any advice on how to deal with low self-esteem, feel free to drop me a line. Otherwise, handle it yourself. You're a big boy with big boy pants. I'll leave it up to you.

Depends. The greatest help I’ve ever received is when men, who act like men, tell me their direct thoughts. That is how I conceive of a manly culture. I can think of no more manly activity than philosophy, and for that reason I welcome (I expect) critique. Brash, direct, penetrating — not for weaklings (nor feminine masturbators).

Keep investing in low self-esteem. Keep squandering your energies. It will help you in your objective of sinking, ever more, into the pit you’ve built for yourself.

You are disgusting — but I say that without much animus really.

dis·gust (dĭs-gŭst′)
tr.v. dis·gust·ed, dis·gust·ing, dis·gusts
1. To excite nausea or loathing in; sicken.
2. To offend the taste or moral sense of; repel.
n.
Profound dislike or annoyance caused by something sickening or offensive.
[Late Old French desgouster, to lose one's appetite : des-, dis- + gouster, to eat, taste (from Latin gustāre; see geus- in Indo-European roots).]
Synonyms: disgust, nauseate, repel, revolt, sicken
These verbs mean to offend the senses or feelings of: a stench that disgusted us; a horrific sight that nauseated me; was repelled by the scene of carnage; was revolted by the act of brutality; a fetid odor that sickened the workers.

[Gary Childress]

Oh? You have an opinion? Of me? And you say it is the same? Hmmmm. Who'd have guessed?!

How does it feel to have someone else share their opinion of you, AJ? If you would like any advice on how to deal with low self-esteem, feel free to drop me a line. Otherwise, handle it yourself. You're a big boy with big boy pants. I'll leave it up to you.

Depends. The greatest help I’ve ever received is when men, who act like men, tell me their direct thoughts. That is how I conceive of a manly culture. I can think of no more manly activity than philosophy, and for that reason I welcome (I expect) critique. Brash, direct, penetrating — not for weaklings (nor feminine masturbators).

Keep investing in low self-esteem. Keep squandering your energies. It will help you in your objective of sinking, ever more, into the pit you’ve built for yourself.

You are disgusting — but I say that without much animus really.

dis·gust (dĭs-gŭst′)
tr.v. dis·gust·ed, dis·gust·ing, dis·gusts
1. To excite nausea or loathing in; sicken.
2. To offend the taste or moral sense of; repel.
n.
Profound dislike or annoyance caused by something sickening or offensive.
[Late Old French desgouster, to lose one's appetite : des-, dis- + gouster, to eat, taste (from Latin gustāre; see geus- in Indo-European roots).]
Synonyms: disgust, nauseate, repel, revolt, sicken
These verbs mean to offend the senses or feelings of: a stench that disgusted us; a horrific sight that nauseated me; was repelled by the scene of carnage; was revolted by the act of brutality; a fetid odor that sickened the workers.

[Dontaskme]

Oh? You have an opinion? Of me? And you say it is the same? Hmmmm. Who'd have guessed?!

How does it feel to have someone else share their opinion of you, AJ? If you would like any advice on how to deal with low self-esteem, feel free to drop me a line. Otherwise, handle it yourself. You're a big boy with big boy pants. I'll leave it up to you.

Depends. The greatest help I’ve ever received is when men, who act like men, tell me their direct thoughts. That is how I conceive of a manly culture. I can think of no more manly activity than philosophy, and for that reason I welcome (I expect) critique. Brash, direct, penetrating — not for weaklings (nor feminine masturbators).

Keep investing in low self-esteem. Keep squandering your energies. It will help you in your objective of sinking, ever more, into the pit you’ve built for yourself.

You are disgusting — but I say that without much animus really.

dis·gust (dĭs-gŭst′)
tr.v. dis·gust·ed, dis·gust·ing, dis·gusts
1. To excite nausea or loathing in; sicken.
2. To offend the taste or moral sense of; repel.
n.
Profound dislike or annoyance caused by something sickening or offensive.
[Late Old French desgouster, to lose one's appetite : des-, dis- + gouster, to eat, taste (from Latin gustāre; see geus- in Indo-European roots).]
Synonyms: disgust, nauseate, repel, revolt, sicken
These verbs mean to offend the senses or feelings of: a stench that disgusted us; a horrific sight that nauseated me; was repelled by the scene of carnage; was revolted by the act of brutality; a fetid odor that sickened the workers.

There is nothing wrong with anyone of us. It's really A-ok to not enjoy living, life is not for everyone, it's important that we give ourselves permission to be miserable, and to embrace one's own true feelings free from needing approval, is one's only refuge and sanity.

One of the tragic things that human culture has done to us is that it has placed before us the model of a perfect being. That perfect being is modeled after the great spiritual teachers who have been selling imaginary dreams..that's the grotesque part about life, is when other people try to tell you how to live it.

[Gary Childress]

Depends. The greatest help I’ve ever received is when men, who act like men, tell me their direct thoughts.

Pulls a fucking scene from the "Godfather" of all places, how appropriate. Take a moment and smell your underarms. You need to determine where that stench is coming from before you post anymore on a philosophy forum as far as I can tell. Good grief. No wonder our world is as fucked up as it is now. You and Putin need to go horseback riding together or something!

[Alexis Jacobi]

Aaaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!

[Gary Childress]

Aaaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!

Relax. You'll get over it. Do a little rewiring and fine tunning and maybe you'll come up with something different or improved. In the meantime pray our children don't end up getting drafted for WWIII--assuming praying will accomplish anything.

[Harbal]

Depends. The greatest help I’ve ever received is when men, who act like men, tell me their direct thoughts. That is how I conceive of a manly culture. I can think of no more manly activity than philosophy, and for that reason I welcome (I expect) critique. Brash, direct, penetrating.

So you like manly men who are penetrating, do you?

[promethean75]

I don't wanna get drafted, Gary.

[Harbal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_YHg-ZEmo