Atheism

[Gary Childress]

You don't seem to be able to understand why anyone would be atheist,

On the contrary, it seems obvious to me why some people choose that. But rationality, logic, evidence...these things do not give them any slack on that. The very things they claim to appeal to are exactly what condemn their view as contradictory.

God (or else some magical being that chose to present itself to you and claim to be the creator of everything) has chosen to reveal himself (or itself) to you. Aren't you special?

Me? No.

But He is.

Look at what you're doing right now, Gary...arguing stridently with a Theist. Arguing without evidence, proof or logic, as well. It's almost like there's a thing you are just determined not to believe...

But if what I have told you is true, then you've been told. And one thing you can never say to God is, "You never tried to reach me."

...my experience says a "benevolent" God is out of the equation.

Ironic. He's very much in mine. Happy Easter, by the way...what is this weekend about, again? A benevolent God is impossible, you say: and yet He sent His Son to die to save you, and on Easter, raised Him to prove the way to God is wide open to you.

I wonder, then, how much benevolence God would have to show in order to vouchsafe his good intentions toward you. I really have to think that, given your disposition, there would never be any evidence sufficient to change your mind. So if it's to change, you'll have to change it yourself, I guess.

IC, I've been severely depressed since I was very young. I was an outsider to most of my peers for most of my life except for a relatively brief exception direclty after graduating from High School. However, that brief exception was brought to a crushing end by a sudden onset of psychosis. I've been having psychoses every now and then ever since that first psychosis about 25 years ago. I can't get off medicine as a result.

Between the effects of medicine and the fact that apathy, emotional flatness, and lack of interest in things that used to interest me are conspicuously common among people with severe mental illnesses like mine. Life has not been very enjoyable for me. Sometimes it even the case that simply enduring life takes a lot of effort on my part.

Depression isn't fun. And now when I talk to some of my peers who don't have mental illness, I find that they consider me a 'failure'--though they seldom come forth and say it bluntly. But they blame me for my own problems, just so they don't have to feel "luckier" or more "privileged" than me. I suppose I'd feel the same way if I were in their shoes and felt a need to justify my privilege, so I can't really blame them in any casae.

They consider me a failure in part because I'm not much of a player at all in society. I'm lucky to have found a relatively unique job that I can do reasonably competently. It's never going to transition into seriously gainful employment. I'm lonely, and I'm not what most women want, for reasons I can fully understand. Being able to fully understand why women don't want me doesn't help my mood either. The only women who want me are the few who can't find anyone better because few other men want them for whatever reason that usually becomes apparent to me after getting to know them, if not immediately upon meeting them.

Add something else to that pile, IC. There are people out there who are in much worse shape even than I am. And people better off than me will do as you do and point to them and try to guilt me for feeling bad for myself because there are far poorer people who have it worse than I do and you don't want to hear from someone who's maybe had harder luck than you any more than any other fortunate person does.

If you can't turn the hopeless into "other cheek turning" Christians, then you'd rather not hear from us, lest your tranquility and peace of mind is spoiled--and your fragile belief that in a world full of suffering and pain, there is a "benevolent" God to whom you can turn and be guaranteed whatever favors or lenient treatment or whatever. I see it all the time in some people. I'm used to it and I've become able to read it pretty well right away.

The world has made me cynical, IC. I don't see too much good in it. Sorry about that. You're welcome to believe what you want. I assume I'm welcome to look at what I see and judge it rationally and as accurately as I am able based on the picture that has manifested in front of at my particular vantage point.

We'll both just have to live with each other, I guess. I'll have to accept that God has (according to you) revealed himself to you and you'll just have to accept that God hasn't done so to me. You can hypothesize whatever reason you want for why God chose you and not me. I don't care at this point. If there's a God, then I'll be happy just to be awarded oblivion, rather than suffer in hell or have to deal with all the arrogant, haughty people I've met who seem to believe they're going to "heaven" for whatever great deeds they claim to have done. Far be it from me to spoil their ride. But it's hard to accomplish any "great" deeds depressed and medicated most of the time. So maybe I just suck and deserve my fate because I'm a "slacker" or something.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Alexis Jacobi]

No, they're just conventional. Very ho hum. They're the old canards, never well-thought through, and as always, totally oblivious to what Christianity really is.

They get all the response they require, really.

This is why I say you are wretched at apologetics. You imply that some dazzling, novel presentation would be — what?

The people you talk to cannot accept, either rationally or intuitively, what you preach that they must. So, not only do you not reach them, you totally alienate them. You repulse.

[Harbal]

If you haven't been brought up under a religious influence, and there is no social pressure on you to be part of any religion, why on earth would you be religious?

[Gary Childress]

If you haven't been brought up under a religious influence, and there is no social pressure on you to be part of any religion, why on earth would you be religious?

As far as I can tell, the main advantage to religious affiliation is social networking and connections. I've tried assimilating into Christian forums or churches and people are always eager to help each other or hang out socially in their spare time. It's a good thing. There's not too much wrong with it other than to perhaps undercut outsiders or "loners" who might be applying for jobs or something too. Often, social networking seems to trump even a highly qualified job candidate in being awarded a position. People would much rather work with someone they know better and who they trust. That's certainly understandable too. It definitely helps anyone to become involved in a social network.

It's just a shame that one has to believe (or else profess to be trying to believe, or something) in a particular set of voodoo spirits or otherwise scientifically unverifiable metaphysical beliefs in order to belong or fit into churches. Other than that, it's like volunteering for the Rotary Club, the Elk Lodge, Free Masons, political parties, or getting involved in intramural team sports or anything else that gets people together on a regular basis. It serves pretty much the same social purpose, for people to meet and get to know each other.

I can understand that. Personally, I like more open clubs or things that only require one to have an interest in the activity, even if it's only to get more acquainted with it, "give it a try" or simply participate as the "village novice" or something. In my experience attending church is more awkward if one doesn't believe in whatever set of unprovable beliefs the particular church professes. You'll feel like an outsider or sit by yourself most of the time if you don't go along with the beliefs the other members have. Either they will be reluctant to sit with you our of awkwardness or you'll be reluctant to sit with them out of awkwardness. Churches (along with political parties) are one of a certain class of social activities where people might ask you, "why are you even here." if you don't want to share their beliefs. I mean, as an example, anyone can go bowling even if it's only to spectate. They don't have to really have any other reason.

[Harbal]

If you haven't been brought up under a religious influence, and there is no social pressure on you to be part of any religion, why on earth would you be religious?

As far as I can tell, the main advantage to religious affiliation is social networking and connections. I've tried assimilating into Christian forums or churches and people are always eager to help each other or hang out socially in their spare time. It's a good thing. There's not too much wrong with it other than to perhaps undercut outsiders or "loners" who might be applying for jobs or something too. Often, social networking seems to trump even a highly qualified job candidate in being awarded a position. People would much rather work with someone they know better and who they trust. That's certainly understandable too. It definitely helps anyone to become involved in a social network.

It's just a shame that one has to believe (or else profess to be trying to believe, or something) in a particular set of voodoo spirits or otherwise scientifically unverifiable metaphysical beliefs in order to belong or fit into churches. Other than that, it's like volunteering for the Rotary Club, the Elk Lodge, Free Masons, political parties, or getting involved in intramural team sports or anything else that gets people together on a regular basis. It serves pretty much the same social purpose, for people to meet and get to know each other.

I can understand that. Personally, I like more open clubs or things that only require one to have an interest in the activity, even if it's only to get more acquainted with it, "give it a try" or simply participate as the "village novice" or something. In my experience attending church is more awkward if one doesn't believe in whatever set of unprovable beliefs the particular church professes. You'll feel like an outsider or sit by yourself most of the time if you don't go along with the beliefs the other members have. Either they will be reluctant to sit with you our of awkwardness or you'll be reluctant to sit with them out of awkwardness. Churches (along with political parties) are one of a certain class of social activities where people might ask you, "why are you even here." if you don't want to share their beliefs. I mean, as an example, anyone can go bowling even if it's only to spectate. They don't have to really have any other reason.

I wouldn't know about any of that, Gary; churches are only for christenings, weddings and funerals in my world.

[Immanuel Can]

IC, I've been severely depressed since I was very young. I was an outsider to most of my peers for most of my life except for a relatively brief exception direclty after graduating from High School. However, that brief exception was brought to a crushing end by a sudden onset of psychosis. I've been having psychoses every now and then ever since that first psychosis about 25 years ago. I can't get off medicine as a result.

Between the effects of medicine and the fact that apathy, emotional flatness, and lack of interest in things that used to interest me are conspicuously common among people with severe mental illnesses like mine. Life has not been very enjoyable for me. Sometimes it even the case that simply enduring life takes a lot of effort on my part.

Depression isn't fun. And now when I talk to some of my peers who don't have mental illness, I find that they consider me a 'failure'--though they seldom come forth and say it bluntly. But they blame me for my own problems, just so they don't have to feel "luckier" or more "privileged" than me. I suppose I'd feel the same way if I were in their shoes and felt a need to justify my privilege, so I can't really blame them in any casae.

They consider me a failure in part because I'm not much of a player at all in society. I'm lucky to have found a relatively unique job that I can do reasonably competently. It's never going to transition into seriously gainful employment. I'm lonely, and I'm not what most women want, for reasons I can fully understand. Being able to fully understand why women don't want me doesn't help my mood either. The only women who want me are the few who can't find anyone better because few other men want them for whatever reason that usually becomes apparent to me after getting to know them, if not immediately upon meeting them.

Add something else to that pile, IC. There are people out there who are in much worse shape even than I am. And people better off than me will do as you do and point to them and try to guilt me for feeling bad for myself because there are far poorer people who have it worse than I do and you don't want to hear from someone who's maybe had harder luck than you any more than any other fortunate person does.

If you can't turn the hopeless into "other cheek turning" Christians, then you'd rather not hear from us, lest your tranquility and peace of mind is spoiled--and your fragile belief that in a world full of suffering and pain, there is a "benevolent" God to whom you can turn and be guaranteed whatever favors or lenient treatment or whatever. I see it all the time in some people. I'm used to it and I've become able to read it pretty well right away.

The world has made me cynical, IC. I don't see too much good in it. Sorry about that. You're welcome to believe what you want. I assume I'm welcome to look at what I see and judge it rationally and as accurately as I am able based on the picture that has manifested in front of at my particular vantage point.

We'll both just have to live with each other, I guess. I'll have to accept that God has (according to you) revealed himself to you and you'll just have to accept that God hasn't done so to me. You can hypothesize whatever reason you want for why God chose you and not me. I don't care at this point. If there's a God, then I'll be happy just to be awarded oblivion, rather than suffer in hell or have to deal with all the arrogant, haughty people I've met who seem to believe they're going to "heaven" for whatever great deeds they claim to have done. Far be it from me to spoil their ride. But it's hard to accomplish any "great" deeds depressed and medicated most of the time. So maybe I just suck and deserve my fate because I'm a "slacker" or something.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know you're depressed, Gary. I believe you. And I remember what you've previously told me about your other life experiences. I take them seriously, and you'll note I've never told you that you're responsible for what happened to you, or for the challenges you face. I continue to treat you with respect, no matter how angry you get...have you noticed?

So why do I persist in talking to you about God? Because no matter how dark your situation looks, it's not hopeless. What you need may well be beyond human capacity to afford, or even beyond your own capacity to change -- but nothing is beyond God.

Being angry with Him makes no sense, really. He's the only One capable of getting behind all that's eating you up and getting you out of it. What you need, Gary, according to everything you've told me, is a wholesale transformation, not cosmetic changes. It takes nothing less than an act of God to do such a thing.

So my counsel would be this: you already know that there's no help for you in man -- nothing in ordinary science or in the medical system to fix what you're dealing with -- and if you get to the point when you truly realize you're also powerless to fix what's wrong with your life, then maybe you'll consider the one option you've been refusing so steadfastly...to resort to God Himself. And I'm confident there's an answer for you there. But you're going to need to be willing to put it all on the line for that. However, if things are anywhere near so bad as you say, what have you got to lose? And maybe, at the present moment, you're desperate to catch a break, but not yet desperate enough to do the right thing.

So it might take more time. But I think you'll come to it. If what you're telling me is true, then you won't really have another option, at the end of the day. All I'm trying to do here is point in the right direction, so you don't imagine you've tried everything yet, or that there isn't another chance. What I don't want is for you to think there's no hope. In spite of all, there is.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Get a room.

[promethean75]

already, jeez.

[Gary Childress]

IC, I've been severely depressed since I was very young. I was an outsider to most of my peers for most of my life except for a relatively brief exception direclty after graduating from High School. However, that brief exception was brought to a crushing end by a sudden onset of psychosis. I've been having psychoses every now and then ever since that first psychosis about 25 years ago. I can't get off medicine as a result.

Between the effects of medicine and the fact that apathy, emotional flatness, and lack of interest in things that used to interest me are conspicuously common among people with severe mental illnesses like mine. Life has not been very enjoyable for me. Sometimes it even the case that simply enduring life takes a lot of effort on my part.

Depression isn't fun. And now when I talk to some of my peers who don't have mental illness, I find that they consider me a 'failure'--though they seldom come forth and say it bluntly. But they blame me for my own problems, just so they don't have to feel "luckier" or more "privileged" than me. I suppose I'd feel the same way if I were in their shoes and felt a need to justify my privilege, so I can't really blame them in any casae.

They consider me a failure in part because I'm not much of a player at all in society. I'm lucky to have found a relatively unique job that I can do reasonably competently. It's never going to transition into seriously gainful employment. I'm lonely, and I'm not what most women want, for reasons I can fully understand. Being able to fully understand why women don't want me doesn't help my mood either. The only women who want me are the few who can't find anyone better because few other men want them for whatever reason that usually becomes apparent to me after getting to know them, if not immediately upon meeting them.

Add something else to that pile, IC. There are people out there who are in much worse shape even than I am. And people better off than me will do as you do and point to them and try to guilt me for feeling bad for myself because there are far poorer people who have it worse than I do and you don't want to hear from someone who's maybe had harder luck than you any more than any other fortunate person does.

If you can't turn the hopeless into "other cheek turning" Christians, then you'd rather not hear from us, lest your tranquility and peace of mind is spoiled--and your fragile belief that in a world full of suffering and pain, there is a "benevolent" God to whom you can turn and be guaranteed whatever favors or lenient treatment or whatever. I see it all the time in some people. I'm used to it and I've become able to read it pretty well right away.

The world has made me cynical, IC. I don't see too much good in it. Sorry about that. You're welcome to believe what you want. I assume I'm welcome to look at what I see and judge it rationally and as accurately as I am able based on the picture that has manifested in front of at my particular vantage point.

We'll both just have to live with each other, I guess. I'll have to accept that God has (according to you) revealed himself to you and you'll just have to accept that God hasn't done so to me. You can hypothesize whatever reason you want for why God chose you and not me. I don't care at this point. If there's a God, then I'll be happy just to be awarded oblivion, rather than suffer in hell or have to deal with all the arrogant, haughty people I've met who seem to believe they're going to "heaven" for whatever great deeds they claim to have done. Far be it from me to spoil their ride. But it's hard to accomplish any "great" deeds depressed and medicated most of the time. So maybe I just suck and deserve my fate because I'm a "slacker" or something.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know you're depressed, Gary. I believe you. And I remember what you've previously told me about your other life experiences. I take them seriously, and you'll note I've never told you that you're responsible for what happened to you, or for the challenges you face. I continue to treat you with respect, no matter how angry you get...have you noticed?

So why do I persist in talking to you about God? Because no matter how dark your situation looks, it's not hopeless. What you need may well be beyond human capacity to afford, or even beyond your own capacity to change -- but nothing is beyond God.

Being angry with Him makes no sense, really. He's the only One capable of getting behind all that's eating you up and getting you out of it. What you need, Gary, according to everything you've told me, is a wholesale transformation, not cosmetic changes. It takes nothing less than an act of God to do such a thing.

So my counsel would be this: you already know that there's no help for you in man -- nothing in ordinary science or in the medical system to fix what you're dealing with -- and if you get to the point when you truly realize you're also powerless to fix what's wrong with your life, then maybe you'll consider the one option you've been refusing so steadfastly...to resort to God Himself. And I'm confident there's an answer for you there. But you're going to need to be willing to put it all on the line for that. However, if things are anywhere near so bad as you say, what have you got to lose? And maybe, at the present moment, you're desperate to catch a break, but not yet desperate enough to do the right thing.

So it might take more time. But I think you'll come to it. If what you're telling me is true, then you won't really have another option, at the end of the day. All I'm trying to do here is point in the right direction, so you don't imagine you've tried everything yet, or that there isn't another chance. What I don't want is for you to think there's no hope. In spite of all, there is.

I concede that you are very calm under fire where instead I get a temper. You're good at who you are. It's admirable to whatever extent. Maybe you would make a much better "mental health" counselor than I ever would, save for what I assume are probably your beliefs concerning the practice of masturbation--unless you run contra to most Christian doctrines that I'm aware of concerning the practice. However, Christianity and I just don't get along. If I have to feel guilt, shame, or unworthiness just for satiating my natural instincts and testing my plumbing from time to time, then I prefer to attempt a reasonable compromise with nature. If dopamine addiction is an unhealthy problem, then I feel that abstinence is as much a problem going to the opposite extreme.

One of the few pleasures I get out of life, absent of having a spouse or girlfriend is self-pleasuring. I keep it mostly private and don't take "selfies" when I do. However, Diogenes of Sinope (who didn't mind so much doing it in public) is reputed to have quipped: if only one could get a similar effect satiating hunger just from rubbing one's belly...

If I can find an arrangement where I can be a "friend with benefits" with some reasonably attractive woman out there, then I'd rather be free to go for that if the opportunity ever presents itself. If not, then so be it. That's life, unfortunately.

I believe there is enjoyment to be had in life other than following the straight and narrow of relative asceticism. Granted, I stay well away from illegal drugs and crime beyond traffic violations but other than that, my approach to things is no harm, no foul.

You're welcome to do as you see fit. If you want to abstain from something that otherwise isn't harmful if done in moderation, then you're free to. Perhaps it's even a better path to take than mine if one wishes for certain results. I'm not interested in perfection or sainthood. I'm not even interested in heaven or hell. Oblivion is not a bad option in my book and I see little evidence to think my ultimate fate is otherwise. To my knowledge and recollection, I wasn't anything at all before I was born, I figure I'm just as likely to return to that state of affairs upon death.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Alexis Jacobi]

Oy veh ist mir.

[promethean75]

bro u have a job so u have the income (and I'm assuming good cred) to get a place or rent a room so u can bring a chick back and watch a movie. that's where it starts. your problem, like mine, is that u live with your moms. becuz u know that makes u a loser except in the eyes of the kind of girl u wouldn't want to date anyway.

all u gotta do is have a vehicle and a place man. go to a Chili's and hang out at the bar. you'll have to do this several times over before u have any luck but u will have some luck. u gotta think like this. you're not going somewhere lookin for chicks... you're going out to eat lunch/dinner, something u gotta do anyway. but there will be chicks there and eventually you'll make a comment like 'hey what is that that looks delicious' and she'll be like 'it's the avacado bacon chicken  fajita'.

all u gotta do is not go looking to meet a girl when u got out looking to meet a girl. if u ack like it's a mission or the whole reason you're going out (which it is), you'll try too hard and fuck it up.

other than that u have no excuse becuz you're not ugly.... you're cute but with an athletic enough build to not look like a wuss. women like cute nerdy guys that aren't terribly frail or the opposite, obese. and you're smart enough to be able to engage intellectually with any female. now i can't promise u you'll pull one of those high maintenance level ten level chicks so u need to be realistic and able to recognize what league you're in Gary and which chicks are accessible.

and finally, always keep this in mind. a mediocre looking chubby girl, if motivated, would be willing to get into shape to please u. this means that a meh looking chick will become a decent lookin chick within the first six months of your relationship. basically when two not terribly sexy people get together and go to the gym, they become sexier and sexier by the day. hot people don't have this experience becuz being sexy is normal for them. there is nothing more romantic than two fatties becoming sexy together. not saying you're a fatty. I'm just saying that there is an element of enthusiasm and inspiration that exists in mediocre people's desire to be sexy. when self improvement is conjoined with the immediate eros of the mediocre lover's desire to be sexy, the metamorphosis of the sensual perfecting of the body infects them both, transformed as they are into sexy beasts with an ever renewed erotic lust for life and each other.

listen this is just a manifest destiny thing u got going on subconsciously. job, car, crib, Chili's.

And stay away from religious socials becuz those girlz will not be able to keep up with u, Gary.

[Veritas Aequitas]

“If there were no God, there would be no atheists.”

He is insulting his own intelligence.
If there is no God, there would be no theists [i.e. no humans created, no atheists].

The above is based on the arrogance and delusion that God exists as a default and being ignorant that it is impossible for a God to exists as real.

impossible for a God to exists as real
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

[vegetariantaxidermy]

bro u have a job so u have the income (and I'm assuming good cred) to get a place or rent a room so u can bring a chick back and watch a movie. that's where it starts. your problem, like mine, is that u live with your moms. becuz u know that makes u a loser except in the eyes of the kind of girl u wouldn't want to date anyway.

all u gotta do is have a vehicle and a place man. go to a Chili's and hang out at the bar. you'll have to do this several times over before u have any luck but u will have some luck. u gotta think like this. you're not going somewhere lookin for chicks... you're going out to eat lunch/dinner, something u gotta do anyway. but there will be chicks there and eventually you'll make a comment like 'hey what is that that looks delicious' and she'll be like 'it's the avacado bacon chicken  fajita'.

all u gotta do is not go looking to meet a girl when u got out looking to meet a girl. if u ack like it's a mission or the whole reason you're going out (which it is), you'll try too hard and fuck it up.

other than that u have no excuse becuz you're not ugly.... you're cute but with an athletic enough build to not look like a wuss. women like cute nerdy guys that aren't terribly frail or the opposite, obese. and you're smart enough to be able to engage intellectually with any female. now i can't promise u you'll pull one of those high maintenance level ten level chicks so u need to be realistic and able to recognize what league you're in Gary and which chicks are accessible.

and finally, always keep this in mind. a mediocre looking chubby girl, if motivated, would be willing to get into shape to please u. this means that a meh looking chick will become a decent lookin chick within the first six months of your relationship. basically when two not terribly sexy people get together and go to the gym, they become sexier and sexier by the day. hot people don't have this experience becuz being sexy is normal for them. there is nothing more romantic than two fatties becoming sexy together. not saying you're a fatty. I'm just saying that there is an element of enthusiasm and inspiration that exists in mediocre people's desire to be sexy. when self improvement is conjoined with the immediate eros of the mediocre lover's desire to be sexy, the metamorphosis of the sensual perfecting of the body infects them both, transformed as they are into sexy beasts with an ever renewed erotic lust for life and each other.

listen this is just a manifest destiny thing u got going on subconsciously. job, car, crib, Chili's.

And stay away from religious socials becuz those girlz will not be able to keep up with u, Gary.

FFS. 99 percent of Americans are giant mountains of pulsating blubber. For every house there's a fast food joint. And living with one's mother doesn't necessarily make a man a 'loser'. Italian men are famous for being 'mama's boys' who live with their mothers, even AFTER they get married lol.

[Iwannaplato]

“If there were no God, there would be no atheists.”

He is insulting his own intelligence.
If there is no God, there would be no theists [i.e. no humans created, no atheists].

The above is based on the arrogance and delusion that God exists as a default and being ignorant that it is impossible for a God to exists as real.

impossible for a God to exists as real
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

Well, here's VA's argument, and whatever one thinks of his conclusions, the argument doesn't make sense....

Here is an argument, Why God is an Impossibility to be real.

There are two types of perfection for philosophical consideration, i.e.
1. Relative perfection
2. Absolute perfection
1. Relative perfection
If one's answers in an objective tests are ALL correct that is a 100% perfect score.
Perfect scores 10/10 or 7/7 used to be given to extra-ordinary performance in diving, gymnastics, skating, and the likes. So perfection from the relative perspective can happen and exist within man-made systems of empirically-based measurements.

2. Absolute perfection
Absolute perfection is an idea, ideal, and it is only a thought that can arise from pure reason and never the empirical at all.
Absolute perfection is an impossibility in the empirical, thus exist only theoretically.
Examples are perfect circle, square, triangle, etc.

Generally, perfection is attributed to God. Any god with less than perfect attributes would be subjected to being inferior to another's god.
As such, God has to be absolutely perfect which is the ontological god, i.e. god is a Being than which no greater can be conceived.

That last part I bolded is one problem with his argument. 'would be subjected' is unclear, but it seems, in other versions of this argument, to mean that other people could claim that their God was greater. This is confusing ontology with some kind of competition between theists. If another theist can claim that their God is more perfect, then your God can't exist. That makes no sense, it's a kind of category error.

The irony being that a non-theist is telling theists what their God must be like, because he thinks this means he can then dismiss their God based on his criterion.

Another problem

Absolute perfection is an impossibility in the empirical, thus exist only theoretically.
Examples are perfect circle, square, triangle, etc.

There are non-empirical and/or not limited to the empirical deities.

And again, it's demanding that theists define their deities (and many do do it this way) so that he can deny the existence of a deity. But it is also taking a very floppy word, perfection, and defining it in very limited ways, also to bolster his case.

And it should be clear that despite what many Abrahamists say, there are plenty of fallible, imperfect, not mathematically infinitely powerful deities out there. And even the scriptures of the Abrahamists show a deity that is not presented as mathematically perfect.

This has all been pointed out to VA long ago.

Note: none of this amounts to a proof that God exists. It's just pointing out weaknesses in VA's 'proof'.

He also accepts the OP's misquote and the seeming intention of it, which is not the correct meaning in context.

[Flannel Jesus]

I don't know about you guys, but for me, logical arguments for the existence or non existence of gods always seem immensely unsatisfying. Like, I've never read a logical argument either direction and been satisfied by it.

I've read logical arguments about the non existence of specific gods and thought they were maybe a little reasonable, at best, but never gods in general. To me, I suppose it seems like more of an empirical question than a logical one. What should we expect to see if there was a god or god's? What should we expect to see if there wasn't? What do we in fact see?

I would try to approach it as a Bayesian. There's little bits of evidence in both directions, and some people interpret some of that evidence strongly in one direction while other people think it shouldn't be considered that strong of evidence.

But regardless of the disagreements we might have about what each piece of evidence means, I think the bayesian approach seems ultimately more fruitful and satisfying.