The meaning of life

[Age]

What about me?

I suppose you think I'm just talking rubbish.

Not rubbish within the context of the dream of conceptual separation. As all concepts such as usefulness, purpose and meaning are known as invisible mental constructions only. These known concepts are NEVER SEEN

What is the artificial dream of conceptual separation? And why do we maintain this position, this duality?

http://praveennv.blogspot.com/2016/03/w ... -this.html

The reason WHY 'you', human beings, CREATE this 'conceptual separation', through names and labeling, and MAINTAIN this position of 'duality' is BECAUSE this IS HOW 'you' keep LEARN MORE and MORE ABOUT the Universe that 'you' have found 'yourselves" WITHIN. Being able to 'conceptually separate', label the apparent 'different things' led to being able to DISCUSS with "other human beings", which further EXPANDED the ABILITY to continually GRASP and LEARN MORE 'knowledge'.

The created 'duality' is a NECESSARY form and way the human brain is able to WORK OUT and CONCLUDE the ACTUAL Reality that 'it' has found 'itself' living IN.

Through the PERCEIVE and CREATED 'duality' 'you', human beings, will come to ALSO LEARN and UNDERSTAND the ACTUAL Truth and Reality of Oneness or the Nonduality of 'Life'.

[Age]

Okay, I'll ask: Will you explain what the objective purpose of human beings is?

And, I will repeat what I have previously written. To make 'Life', Itself, BETTER for EVERY one.

Will you now explain why you consider that to be an objective truth, rather than your own subjective intuition, or feeeling, that it ought to be the case?

BECAUSE, as I previously explained, there is NO ACTUAL purpose to making ANY 'thing' WORSE, and this includes 'Life', Itself.

Now, OBVIOUSLY, in the days when this is being written, 'you', adult human beings, ARE continually making 'things' and 'Life' WORSE. But, and SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTORY there IS a VERY, VERY GOOD PURPOSE for this, but ONLY WHEN 'you' LEARN and FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY 'you' ARE DOING what 'you' ARE DOING, that is; MAKING 'Life' WORSE, then 'you' WILL ALSO SEE and UNDERSTAND WHY there IS, NOW, NO purpose in making 'Life' worse.

Once 'you' LEARN WHY 'you' DO what 'you' DO, then, and ONLY THEN, 'you' CAN CHANGE, for the BETTER. And, WHEN 'you' START CHANGING, for the BETTER, then 'you' WILL ALSO SEE WHAT the purpose WAS for making 'Life' WORSE and WHY there is, NOW, NO purpose in making 'Life' WORSE. And, BECAUSE there is, NOW, NO purpose in making 'Life' WORSE, what IS ALSO SEEN and UNDERSTOOD is WHY the 'purpose' of 'Life', and of 'human beings', is to make 'Life', Itself, BETTER comes to be REALIZED, and KNOWN.

Now to answer your question in VERY SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD, and SIMPLE terms, the reason WHY the 'objective Truth' that to make 'Life', Itself, BETTER for EVERY one is the purpose of 'human beings' is BECAUSE it is some 'thing' that EVERY one could AGREE WITH and ACCEPT.

(I say and use the 'could' word because some people WILL just DISAGREE just for the sake of DISAGREEING.)

By the way, I NEVER USED the 'ought' word here.

What I have SAID and CLAIMED here IS THE CASE, and NOT 'ought' to be the case. To me, NO one 'ought' to do absolutely ANY thing that they 100% do NOT FEEL 'comfortable with', for lack of better wording, NOR THINK is absolutely Right in Life.

[Dontaskme]

Not rubbish within the context of the dream of conceptual separation. As all concepts such as usefulness, purpose and meaning are known as invisible mental constructions only. These known concepts are NEVER SEEN

BUT THEY ARE.

They ARE SEEN in written words, or sign language, and they ARE HEARD in spoken words.

ALL 'mental constructs', which are, essentially just PERCEPTIONS or REFLECTIONS of the Everything, broken down into PARTS, are ALSO SEEN, literally, IN and WITH 'understanding', itself.

I agree with what you are saying Age, but only in part. You use the word 'literally' whereas me here, would use the word 'metaphorically'

'You' Age, can describe what you want about concepts/words, and that would be how you there, would be seeing what you are describing.

But for me here, I'm not talking about the word 'SEEN'' as something like being able to be seen as a physical object apparently having a separate existence apart from the seer. I'm talking about ''seeing'' as a way of understanding some point that is being made.

Seeing is never separate from the seen. But it is not the seen that is seeing, only the seer is seeing, the seen and the seeing are one unitary seeing action, there is no separation there between the seer and the seen.

So, to me, what I'm talking about is the word/concept in and of itself...Words/ concepts are known in this conception. But the concept/word 'YOU' has no consciousness, words/concepts are just frozen thought.. So what does know each concept or word? the answer is Consciousness knows, Consciousness is the only knowing there is, Consciousness is a verb. Consciousness cannot see Consciousness, because CONSCIOUSNESS is ALL ONE ..not two, not split into knower and known, which implies two, its all ONE.

And ONE thing cannot SEE itself, it can only KNOW itself in it's conception/as and through the CONCEPT/ word in this conception, which it reflects back onto itself as an image of the imageless. No known concept can see Consciousness, it can only BE IT...CONSCIOUSNESS being the ONE AND ONLY knowing there is, which cannot be known, because the 'KNOWN' knows nor sees nothing...just as a reflection has no independant existence apart from the seer itself, there is only SEEING, ALL ALONE, ALL ONE.

.

[Harbal]

Now to answer your question in VERY SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD, and SIMPLE terms, the reason WHY the 'objective Truth' that to make 'Life', Itself, BETTER for EVERY one is the purpose of 'human beings' is BECAUSE it is some 'thing' that EVERY one could AGREE WITH and ACCEPT.

It has not been established that every one could agree with and accept that, and, in the light of what we know about human behaviour throughout history, there seems good reason to doubt it. You provide no reason to think that human beings will not continue to strive to make life better for themselves at the expense of other human beings.

[Harbal]

A saw is designed and made with conscious intention as a tool for cutting through wood. Therefore, the purpose of a saw is to cut through wood. A saw has that purpose by virtue of being given it by its creator. A heart could be said to have the purpose of pumping blood, but hearts are not the product of conscious intention; they came about by a different process altogether.

BUT, it MIGHT JUST BE FOUND OUT and DISCOVERED, or UNCOVERED, that ACTUALLY there WAS/IS some sort of 'conscious intention' WAS/IS INVOLVED here. We WILL just HAVE TO WAIT, to SEE. Unless, OF COURSE, 'you', "harbal", ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE and WITHOUT DOUBT, that human beings and/or the hearts within human bodies ARE DEFINITELY and ABSOLUTELY NOT the product of 'conscious intention' AT ALL.

Yes, it might be discovered that there is conscious intention behind everything that exists.

[Dontaskme]

Yes, it might be discovered that there is conscious intention behind everything that exists.

That which appears as conscious intention, NEVER intends.

[Harbal]

That which appears as conscious intention, NEVER intends.

So didn't you mean to say that?

[Dontaskme]

That which appears as conscious intention, NEVER intends.

So didn't you mean to say that?

That's right, so it appears, it appears to have been intentional, though it wasn't, because intention is just what's happening, and no thing ever makes what happens happen, nor can make what happens unhappen apparently.

[Age]

Not rubbish within the context of the dream of conceptual separation. As all concepts such as usefulness, purpose and meaning are known as invisible mental constructions only. These known concepts are NEVER SEEN

BUT THEY ARE.

They ARE SEEN in written words, or sign language, and they ARE HEARD in spoken words.

ALL 'mental constructs', which are, essentially just PERCEPTIONS or REFLECTIONS of the Everything, broken down into PARTS, are ALSO SEEN, literally, IN and WITH 'understanding', itself.

I agree with what you are saying Age, but only in part. You use the word 'literally' whereas me here, would use the word 'metaphorically'

'You' Age, can describe what you want about concepts/words, and that would be how you there, would be seeing what you are describing.

But for me here, I'm not talking about the word 'SEEN'' as something like being able to be seen as a physical object apparently having a separate existence apart from the seer. I'm talking about ''seeing'' as a way of understanding some point that is being made.

SO, WHY, to 'you', "dontaskme", 'known concepts', or some point being made, can NEVER be UNDERSTOOD?

Seeing is never separate from the seen. But it is not the seen that is seeing, only the seer is seeing, the seen and the seeing are one unitary seeing action, there is no separation there between the seer and the seen.

So, to me, what I'm talking about is the word/concept in and of itself...Words/ concepts are known in this conception. But the concept/word 'YOU' has no consciousness, words/concepts are just frozen thought..

AND, as I have INFORMED 'you' MANY TIMES ALREADY, OF COURSE ANY and ALL concepts, words, and/or thoughts, themselves, are NOT 'conscious'.

So what does know each concept or word? the answer is Consciousness knows, Consciousness is the only knowing there is, Consciousness is a verb. Consciousness cannot see Consciousness, because CONSCIOUSNESS is ALL ONE ..not two, not split into knower and known, which implies two, its all ONE.

But Consciousness, Itself, can SEE, or UNDERSTAND, 'Consciousness', Itself. As Consciousness has ALREADY done this.

And ONE thing cannot SEE itself.

But thee One Thing CAN and DOES SEE and UNDERSTAND Its 'Self'. 'I', Consciousness, ALSO KNOW thy 'Self', AND ALL of 'you'.

it can only KNOW itself in it's conception/as and through the CONCEPT/ word in this conception, which it reflects back onto itself as an image of the imageless. No known concept can see Consciousness, it can only BE IT...CONSCIOUSNESS being the ONE AND ONLY knowing there is, which cannot be known, because the 'KNOWN' knows nor sees nothing...just as a reflection has no independant existence apart from the seer itself, there is only SEEING, ALL ALONE, ALL ONE.

.

[Age]

Now to answer your question in VERY SIMPLE, STRAIGHTFORWARD, and SIMPLE terms, the reason WHY the 'objective Truth' that to make 'Life', Itself, BETTER for EVERY one is the purpose of 'human beings' is BECAUSE it is some 'thing' that EVERY one could AGREE WITH and ACCEPT.

It has not been established that every one could agree with and accept that, and, in the light of what we know about human behaviour throughout history, there seems good reason to doubt it.

BUT it has ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED. Some are just NOT YET AWARE of 'this'.

What you are saying and claiming here would be like CLAIMING that the earth revolving around the earth has not been established, just because 'that' has not been established by 'you'.

You provide no reason to think that human beings will not continue to strive to make life better for themselves at the expense of other human beings.

I NEVER KNEW I WAS MEANT TO.

Also, there will NOT be a LOT OF CHANGE UNTIL GREED is REMOVED from human society.

[Dontaskme]

Once 'you' LEARN WHY 'you' DO what 'you' DO, then, and ONLY THEN, 'you' CAN CHANGE, for the BETTER. And, WHEN 'you' START CHANGING, for the BETTER, then 'you' WILL ALSO SEE WHAT the purpose WAS for making 'Life' WORSE and WHY there is, NOW, NO purpose in making 'Life' WORSE. And, BECAUSE there is, NOW, NO purpose in making 'Life' WORSE, what IS ALSO SEEN and UNDERSTOOD is WHY the 'purpose' of 'Life', and of 'human beings', is to make 'Life', Itself, BETTER comes to be REALIZED, and KNOWN.

Humankind is no better than a garden slug.

Mosquitos must fly around with the same sense of self-importance.

[Harbal]

It has not been established that every one could agree with and accept that, and, in the light of what we know about human behaviour throughout history, there seems good reason to doubt it.

BUT it has ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED. Some are just NOT YET AWARE of 'this'.

As you provide no justification for this comment, it serves no purpose.

Also, there will NOT be a LOT OF CHANGE UNTIL GREED is REMOVED from human society.

That doesn't really tell us much, does it?

[Dontaskme]

But thee One Thing CAN and DOES SEE and UNDERSTAND Its 'Self'. 'I', Consciousness, ALSO KNOW thy 'Self', AND ALL of 'you'.

Nope, a thing is seen, a thing is known, a thing is understood. A 'THING' is not the seeing, the knowing, nor the understanding.

Consciousness is not a thing, but knows all things, sees all things, and understands all things, because the contents of consciousness is not separate from consciousness. Consciousness is empty fullness.

[Belinda]

There is no such THING as a purpose. To purpose is a verb. Purposing is something only people and other animals that have central nervous systems do, if they do it at all. Many people and other animals don't purpose they simply react.

But "purpose" is also a noun, isn't it? This is what I understand the word to mean: "The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists."

A saw is designed and made with conscious intention as a tool for cutting through wood. Therefore, the purpose of a saw is to cut through wood. A saw has that purpose by virtue of being given it by its creator. A heart could be said to have the purpose of pumping blood, but hearts are not the product of conscious intention; they came about by a different process altogether. So, although -it seems to me- saws and hearts both have a purpose, there is a distinction of some sort to be made between "purpose" as applied to one, and "purpose" as applied to the other. Or maybe that distinction isn't relevant in the case of what is being discussed here. I don't know.

Of course, the aforementioned distinction would disappear if someone were to bring God, or some other intelligent designer of human beings into the matter, but then theists and none theists would have to go their seperate ways at that point.

English and I suppose most other languages have reification built into them . And then a child learns to speak her native language and assumes the language is telling about the world as it really is. But often language skews thought because of it inbuilt metaphors.

"The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists" is a social construct. The maker of my wooden chair and I the present owner of the chair purpose something different for the chair. His purpose for the chair is for a person to sit on; my purpose for the chair is a work surface for mashing the potatoes on. There is no essence of wooden chair that identifies it. I may remove the legs and use it as a chopping board, or a round door for the rabbit hutch. At what point does it cease to be the same chair? The use of the chair precedes the essence of the chair. Name any thing and I will say the same: its existence precedes its essence.
Age insists that because there is a word then that word has an essential meaning. But he mistakes existence for essence. No word has an essential meaning, each word is nothing other than its use. Verbs tend to be truer to existentialism than nouns but if we hang around we hear the present participle used as a noun. We can't help ourselves. When I went on holiday to the seaside people asked "Are you going beaching today?" This utterance morphed into "The beaching is great at North Berwick."

Some people use a saw as a musical instrument, or a weapon, or as part of their ambient clutter.

Physiologists would be careful not to sound teleological by saying "the purpose of a heart is to pump blood". I once taught physiology to O level and I hope I'd have said "Hearts pump blood" i.e. omitting any suggestion of final purpose.

[Belinda]

Age wrote:

And IF people are BEHAVING in A True and Right way, in accordance WITH 'Life', Itself, then it could be SAID and ARGUED that those people are FULFILLING their PURPOSE in Life.

But one HAS TO BE OPEN enough FIRST to ACCEPT that JUST MAYBE there IS A PURPOSE to Existence, or to this LIVING and BEING ALIVE 'thing'.

In order to have a moral sense I don't need first to believe that there is an invisible PURPOSE that I must obey.