Christianity

[Harbal]

(you wouldn't think by the above that I know God rather personally)

Does the God that you are acquainted with bear much resemblance to the God in the Bible?

[attofishpi]

(you wouldn't think by the above that I know God rather personally)

Does the God that you are acquainted with bear much resemblance to the God in the Bible?

Do you know what Harbal, that is probably THE best question an atheist has asked me.

I need some time to consider (*certainly it didn't talk the universe into existence)...but give me a little more *time.

(probably a lot more)

[Harbal]

(you wouldn't think by the above that I know God rather personally)

Does the God that you are acquainted with bear much resemblance to the God in the Bible?

Do you know what Harbal, that is probably THE best question an atheist has asked me.

I need some time to consider (*certainly it didn't talk the universe into existence)...but give me a little more *time.

(probably a lot more)

No rush' I'll be here.

[Immanuel Can]

Immanuel: See? I’ve been telling you. You just are not making headway.

That depends on what you think "headway" is.

This is something people badly misunderstand. Christians have no inclination to force people to believe, nor any duty to compel people to something for which they are not prepared. They cannot -- literally cannot -- use any kind of force, and still achieve the aim of encouraging other to consider Christ. There will never be a "Christian empire" or a "Christian totalitarianism," because any such employing of coercion would instantly undermine the most fundamental goal of Christianity itself -- the offering of a free choice. So a Christian can explain, discuss, advise, and even plead for the right decision: what he cannot do is MAKE that decision happen.

Catholicism, by contrast, supports empires and regimes, and does not balk at employing force. Islam, likewise. They can not only use force, they consider it a positive instrument of the goal of establishing political hegemony. That's historically evident. And it's that sort of religiosity you've been talking about in your theory, and why I've been pointing out that you've been missing Christianity all along, even while using the word.

For Christians, say, for Methodists, or Anabaptists, or Quakers, and today for Evangelicals of various kinds, "headway" is just sharing the message and encouraging people to decide, either way. What they decide is up to them. One might wish them the best, but this is not in one's control. Either way, morally, one has the absolute duty to speak, and let people know what decision needs to be made.

So thanks for your worry...but all is as it should be. We will leave consequences in the hands of those who are able to decide.

[Immanuel Can]

The mind-bending absurdity of your position is that even if I did believe in god I'd still be damned because it wasn't Jesus I believed in.

Don't ask me.

Ask Jesus:

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36)

It's not mere Theism that saves one. It's Jesus Christ.

John was not quoting verbatim.

No, he was not quoting. But he was still telling the truth.

And Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I AM (i.e. the Hebrew name of God), you shall die in your sins." (John 8:24) He also said, "
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. (John 3)

So there's no shortage of direct quotations making exactly the same point.

[Immanuel Can]

I focus on the Hebrew because, it seems evident, they reduce man to a slave.

"It seems evident," does it? Well, I think you'll find that in terms of "reducing man to a slave," the Colonial, the African, the Arab, the Marxist, and lately the Western cultures have it all over anything you can attribute to the Hebrews. But the fact is that man's chief "slavery" comes from his own nature, not from outside of him.

The nature that God endowed man with?

The original nature with which man was endowed had two features, as I said earlier: innocence and free will. But free will means that one can choose one's own moral course. Man has defiled his own nature, and ruined his innocence, by the exercise of his own will.

So man was not "endowed" with sin. Sin is what he chose. And sin is still what he so often chooses today, as you can observe; but even now, it's not ALL he chooses. He sometimes chooses to do the right thing, in spite of himself. That's free will, demonstrated right in front of you.

[Immanuel Can]

Seems a bit weird that we have to wait until we die to know whether we will be held accountable for our right and wrong actions.

You don't. You could believe God right now.

[attofishpi]

And Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I AM (i.e. the Hebrew name of God), you shall die in your sins." (John 8:24) He also said, "
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. (John 3)

So there's no shortage of direct quotations making exactly the same point.

Two questions IC:-

1. Why does God see it fit to burn non-believers of Christ in Hell for the rest of eternity?

2. Why do YOU see it fit to burn non-believers of Christ in Hell for the rest of eternity?

[Alexis Jacobi]

I don't see you winning much support, either, although the reasons for it all seem pretty similar.

Just an observation.

Support for what?

[attofishpi]

I don't see you winning much support, either, although the reasons for it all seem pretty similar.

Just an observation.

Support for what?

Stop being petty half wit - ffs didn't you think you werked out you had half decent IQ (U fuking idiot)

[attofishpi]

I don't see you winning much support, either, although the reasons for it all seem pretty similar.

Just an observation.

Support for what?

Stop being petty half wit - ffs didn't you think you werked out you had half decent IQ (U fuking idiot)

Im swearing again -sorry - but ya pissed off about your bullshit IQ crap

How was that sample of IQ stats made Alexis - ??

[Harbal]

Support for what?

Why ask me?

[Lacewing]

Upon death there is no accounting to be made anywhere or for anything. Last Judgements don't exist. Why should it? The universe has better things to do.

If you're right, you'll never know. If you're wrong, you will.

That's a manipulated conclusion that fits your beliefs. It excludes any other possibility than what you believe. You cannot answer a question logically because you hold illogical beliefs. If someone is capable of knowing anything after death, they could know that there was no God as imagined by humans.

[attofishpi]

Upon death there is no accounting to be made anywhere or for anything. Last Judgements don't exist. Why should it? The universe has better things to do.

If you're right, you'll never know. If you're wrong, you will.

That's a manipulated conclusion that fits your beliefs. It excludes any other possibility than what you believe. You cannot answer a question logically because you hold illogical beliefs. If someone is capable of knowing anything after death, they could know that there was no God as imagined by humans.

Lacewing. I know we have had our differences and I know I need to go to bed b4 I really start to annoy people.

But.

I have TESTED God re the below - in fact this entity 'God' tested me...and it was the worst test I have ever had to do...but I called it -at the time of the test :NOW! (this was after a fought knight of Gods testing - the final test) - the FAITH test was ""NOW"" to burn in HELL. (*sorry sounds ridiculous I know)

This person, IC still believes that there is and will be beings (*even amoeba) that will burn in hell for eternity...because of God.

How DISGUSTING is his lack of FAITH.

[Lacewing]

I have TESTED God re the below - in fact this entity 'God' tested me...and it was the worst test I have ever had to do...but I called it -at the time of the test :NOW! (this was after a fought knight of Gods testing - the final test) - the FAITH test was ""NOW"" to burn in HELL. (*sorry sounds ridiculous I know)

This person, IC still believes that there is and will be beings (*even amoeba) that will burn in hell for eternity...because of God.

How DISGUSTING is his lack of FAITH.

Okay, so am I understanding correctly that: Our life right NOW is the 'Hell'?

Maybe it is for some people? Or maybe life has bits of Heaven and Hell in it... for us to learn to navigate and survive?

I am truly sorry you've had such horrific 'testing'. I don't know who is doing the testing. Since I don't believe in God, I can only imagine your testing is from a part of yourself, or some kind of energy that is not showing you much kindness or compassion or love. Our own energy could be creating our own experience within the Universe.

I hope you don't take offense to things I say. I truly think these contemplations are fascinating. I just don't believe in a God, so I have no interest in attributing anything to that idea.