Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:25 pm
Magnolia5275 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:43 am
A:
1. It is not possible to know the unknowable
2. A world outside the knowing is unknowable
3. It is not possible to know a world outside the knowing
4. Mind is knowing
5. It is not possible to know a world outside the mind
6. It is not possible for me to know the world outside my mind
7. The world
is my mind
---------------------------------------------------------------
B:
1. We know a world
2. The world we know must be in the mind[A]
3. The world is in the mind
4. The mind is greater than the world
5. The mind is All-Knowing of the world
6. All that is in the mind are its conceptions
7. The world is the mind's creation
8. The mind is All-Powerful
9. The mind is God
10. God exists
K: this ''argument" are variations of Medieval arguments
that have been floating around for almost a thousand years...
and they are what I like to think of as "logical" arguments for
god...they use logic to "prove" god's existence...
but logical arguments aren't real world arguments...they are
are linguistic arguments for the existence of god...
kinda like the argument that goes like this:
"The world exists, so god exists"
now I don't intend to reinvent the wheel and argue against
these logical arguments as they have been thoroughly
discussed over the last 800 years...no, I have an entirely
different agenda.....
the need to hold such beliefs as god... I have talked to many
including a sister who holds such beliefs, and to many, they
have said, they came to god from a place of weakness, from
being at the bottom of the well... they had hit rock bottom and
only found redemption from a belief in god...
in other words, they came to a belief in god because
they had no where else to go.. they had hit the bottom..
it wasn't from strength that they turned to god but from weakness...
now there is a second group of people.. those who
were indoctrinated into belief as children... and they may or
may not have held their beliefs into adulthood but they
eventually came back to religion and god... in other words,
they couldn't overcome their childhood indoctrinations...
we are all indoctrinated as children.. that is what we call
education...and we are indoctrinated by the state, church,
society, family, media into various beliefs... ''America is
the greatest country in the world" is one such indoctrination...
"capitalism is the only possibility for an economic system"
is another such indoctrination...the American indoctrination
against communism and socialism is another example...
I suspect you, as with many believers who believe, believe
not as an honest search for the truth, but because
you were indoctrinated as a child and you never overcame
that indoctrination... and of course, you will deny this,
but hay, we lie to ourselves far more than we lie to others...
philosophy is not a search for the truth of the outside world,
but as a means to overcome our childhood indoctrinations...
I was raised to hold certain beliefs, and by the use of philosophy,
I was able to overcome those beliefs, I replaced the beliefs of
my family, state, religion, media, beliefs indoctrinated into me,
with beliefs that I actually hold.. for many, it is hard to
overcome one's indoctrinations and many never make it...
as you apparently haven't overcome...and that is ok....
but be aware of the fact that your beliefs are simply
beliefs that are your family, state, society, and the church...
not your beliefs, but beliefs you were educated/indoctrinated with...
the question that lies before you is simple, have you overcome? ''
Age: 'you', "peter kropotkin", obviously have not yet overcome the beliefs you hold. So, why do you have a need to hold such beliefs that you have?
If it is not out of weakness, or indoctrination, then how and why did you come to be holding the beliefs that you do have?
What is the need of doing this?
K: as I am old, about to turn 64, I have had many different and diverse beliefs..
including 3 distinct political philosophies and a dozen philosophical beliefs..\
Indeed, even today, I am changing my own political beliefs from
an engagement with political parties to a dismissal of them..
I have held for years that government is part of the solution,
not the problem.... which puts me at odds with conservatives...
and the second part of your question is why those beliefs and
not other beliefs?
I hold X, Y and Z beliefs because I have put them through the fire...that
is to say, I am not satisfied with my current beliefs, I follow
Nietzsche in that I am constantly attacking my beliefs.. not just
proud in that I have the courage of my convictions.. as most
people are... beliefs do and must change to adapt to our
own changing environment/conditions..
I cannot nor ought to follow beliefs that I held when
I was 20 or 30 or even 50 years old... I am a year or two
from retirement.. beliefs that worked then, don't work now..
and so my beliefs have to change to meet my current situation/
environment.... and given this, I am sure in a few years, my
current beliefs will change again... as I go ever closer to my death...
which will surely happen as the sun coming up tomorrow....
Kropotkin
