The future looks good - or bad?

[Sculptor]

You have to wonder how safe a controlled H-Bomb is going to be compared the the perfectly safe nuclear power plants like the ones are Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima and elsewhere.

There was a proposal for a Fusion Torus, around 1990.
They said at the time that it would be on a commercially viable scale in about 20 years.

Then there was the infamous "Cold Fusion" experiment, which was impossible but made the news across the world, but was not replicable. Why? because it was definitely impossible.

[BigMike]

You have to wonder how safe a controlled H-Bomb is going to be compared the the perfectly safe nuclear power plants like the ones are Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima and elsewhere.

Murphy's First Law says, "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." This is likely to be true for future fusion plants as well, it is naïve to believe otherwise. But unlike what happened at Chernobyl, radioactive materials won't be spread halfway around the world. Even though people could die, the worst thing that could happen in an accident would be a localized explosion. There will be absolutely no radioactive pollution that can cause cancer. In this regard, they will be secure.

Nevertheless, we are still in the early stages. We have not yet figured out how to perform fusion on a massive scale.
Despite this, the subject of this discussion is not the logistics of how to get there; rather, it is the preparations, if any, that must be made for when we reach such a social state.

[Belinda]

You have to wonder how safe a controlled H-Bomb is going to be compared the the perfectly safe nuclear power plants like the ones are Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima and elsewhere.

Murphy's First Law says, "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." This is likely to be true for future fusion plants as well, it is naïve to believe otherwise. But unlike what happened at Chernobyl, radioactive materials won't be spread halfway around the world. Even though people could die, the worst thing that could happen in an accident would be a localized explosion. There will be absolutely no radioactive pollution that can cause cancer. In this regard, they will be secure.

Nevertheless, we are still in the early stages. We have not yet figured out how to perform fusion on a massive scale.
Despite this, the subject of this discussion is not the logistics of how to get there; rather, it is the preparations, if any, that must be made for when we reach such a social state.

Does technical advance always or normally cause social disruption?

[BigMike]

Nevertheless, we are still in the early stages. We have not yet figured out how to perform fusion on a massive scale.
Despite this, the subject of this discussion is not the logistics of how to get there; rather, it is the preparations, if any, that must be made for when we reach such a social state.

Does technical advance always or normally cause social disruption?

This could have effects comparable to the agricultural, industrial, and information revolutions. Together with automation, robots, and artificial intelligence, access to nearly free energy will have a profound effect on society. We will gradually become a Kardashev type I civilization, and begin moving towards type II. People will be replaced as a source of labor, both physical, mental, and intellectual, and we will need to implement some form of citizen's salary unless all goods and services are provided for free. I can easily conceive of the end of economics, the "science of scarcity," when there is no longer any scarcity. This time it will cause significant social disruptions, the only question is how. That is my opinion.

[Belinda]

Nevertheless, we are still in the early stages. We have not yet figured out how to perform fusion on a massive scale.
Despite this, the subject of this discussion is not the logistics of how to get there; rather, it is the preparations, if any, that must be made for when we reach such a social state.

Does technical advance always or normally cause social disruption?

This could have effects comparable to the agricultural, industrial, and information revolutions. Together with automation, robots, and artificial intelligence, access to nearly free energy will have a profound effect on society. We will gradually become a Kardashev type I civilization, and begin moving towards type II. People will be replaced as a source of labor, both physical, mental, and intellectual, and we will need to implement some form of citizen's salary unless all goods and services are provided for free. I can easily conceive of the end of economics, the "science of scarcity," when there is no longer any scarcity. This time it will cause significant social disruptions, the only question is how. That is my opinion.

I too like to cross bridges before I come to them.

[Alexis Jacobi]

If it does happen that AI and the class with the power to control and direct it begins to push human beings out of the picture, excess human beings will become a target. So too will those excessive populations that place too much burden on the earth’s resources and ruin natural systems. AI would clearly note that a necessary object should be to reduce or eliminate those unneeded populations and so too would the ‘elite’ class.

So AI will become ‘the enemy’ of the general population and those rendered useless and unnecessary. But this understanding has obviously already emerged and, indeed, there are superfluous people and populations for which there is little use. They were useful as long as they were exploitable. But once their usefulness has expired they must be slated for some form of elimination.

Possibly then it is the sci-fi scenarios that contain the dystopian prophecies. If so the ‘war’ has already begun.

Against this backdrop who then can be said to be ‘useful’?

A ‘smart’ AI system would recognize that the earth’s ecological systems need to be restored and preserved. And human protoplasm reduced by what? Seven-eighths? Seen from one perspective we do not have much ‘use’, do we?

I wonder if this same process has occurred elsewhere in our universe? When a technology became so sophisticated that biological beings could reengineer themselves into different types of entities? When they took it upon themselves to ‘cull’ the unneeded among them?

How can I get on the side of those who will live and prosper? Should I bother to try?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Do you really think that only the top 1% of people will have jobs and money to buy things? Do you really think that the 99% of people who don't have jobs will be okay with dying of hunger?

How are you going to fight the self-regenerating AI robot-army protecting the elites' interests?

A ‘people’s AI army’. A Panbiotic Liberation Army. A nerdy, psychologically mal-adjusted hacker-core recovering their ‘usefulness’ and fighting for (true) human rights.

[Skepdick]

A ‘people’s AI army’. A Panbiotic Liberation Army. A nerdy, psychologically mal-adjusted hacker-core recovering their ‘usefulness’ and fighting for (true) human rights.

LARP-ing to the rescue!

[Alexis Jacobi]

Are you familiar with the deforestation taking place in the Amazon?

On the southern crest of the unscathed Amazon rain forest, a storm inundates a wooden shack just off a sodden mud road. Inside, Antonio Bertola sits clutching a $1 beer under a painting of the Virgin Mary, his face ruddy and his clothes tatty from a lifetime of work on the land.

Living in South America as I do I face the useless, the unneeded — the destructive human vermin — that destroy the Earth.

We simply must bravely and resolutely face the next inevitable stages. We all knew it was coming. We must take an entirely dispassionate attitude. A worldscale army of “contraceptive drones” is what I’m thinking — as a first step.

Later, when he is properly culled, he can still exist in our memory, right? Or perhaps in an electronic memory. The larger question is How to compost his body …

[promethean75]

"How are you going to fight the self-regenerating AI robot-army protecting the elites' interests?"

just like this, skep. BigMike is Matt Damon.

[BigMike]

If it does happen that AI and the class with the power to control and direct it begins to push human beings out of the picture, excess human beings will become a target. So too will those excessive populations that place too much burden on the earth’s resources and ruin natural systems. AI would clearly note that a necessary object should be to reduce or eliminate those unneeded populations and so too would the ‘elite’ class.

Your predictions about the future are obviously based on movies. Of course, these are not the only possible outcomes. Nonetheless, your description is plausible. So, as civilized people, I believe we should begin discussing what kind of future we want and how we can prepare for it. We must immediately begin putting in place safeguards to prevent the worst-case scenarios from becoming a reality.

[Belinda]

Are you familiar with the deforestation taking place in the Amazon?

On the southern crest of the unscathed Amazon rain forest, a storm inundates a wooden shack just off a sodden mud road. Inside, Antonio Bertola sits clutching a $1 beer under a painting of the Virgin Mary, his face ruddy and his clothes tatty from a lifetime of work on the land.

Living in South America as I do I face the useless, the unneeded — the destructive human vermin — that destroy the Earth.

We simply must bravely and resolutely face the next inevitable stages. We all knew it was coming. We must take an entirely dispassionate attitude. A worldscale army of “contraceptive drones” is what I’m thinking — as a first step.

Later, when he is properly culled, he can still exist in our memory, right? Or perhaps in an electronic memory. The larger question is How to compost his body …

The solution to the problem of too many human beings is political. There is a statistically significant link between increased education especially for women and girls, and smaller families.

Contraceptive technology is quite easy to deliver. It is more difficult to persuade males to wear condoms. This is why education, vocational training, and financial independence for women and girls is the way ahead.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Your predictions about the future are obviously based on movies. Of course, these are not the only possible outcomes. Nonetheless, your description is plausible. So, as civilized people, I believe we should begin discussing what kind of future we want and how we can prepare for it. We must immediately begin putting in place safeguards to prevent the worst-case scenarios from becoming a reality.

Sure, partially, but its also a twist on Brave New World and other dystopian literature.

I think that *dystopian* future is already here. Power will not be capable of avoiding exploiting the level of control possible as AI gets 100 times more sophisticated.

Our discussions of what we’d like as future will take a remote place behind what power is doing and will do.

A related issue, wondering if you know of her work?

[BigMike]

Your predictions about the future are obviously based on movies. Of course, these are not the only possible outcomes. Nonetheless, your description is plausible. So, as civilized people, I believe we should begin discussing what kind of future we want and how we can prepare for it. We must immediately begin putting in place safeguards to prevent the worst-case scenarios from becoming a reality.

Sure, partially, but its also a twist on Brave New World and other dystopian literature.

I think that *dystopian* future is already here. Power will not be capable of avoiding exploiting the level of control possible as AI gets 100 times more sophisticated.

Our discussions of what we’d like as future will take a remote place behind what power is doing and will do.

A related issue, wondering if you know of her work?

What you're saying about targeted marketing is frightening, and it's already happening. However, in contrast to the difficulty we face in the long run, I do not believe that it poses an immediate risk to our lives or existence. In a previous post that was more about the future, which is the main topic of this forum, you said that "excess human beings" and "unneeded populations" might have to be killed off in the future. It seems to me like an unnecessary and dangerous "solution," like a cold wind from the past.

It will be easier to reach an agreement on what to do in the short term if we can reach a consensus regarding the type of future we foresee. Dealing with targeted marketing may be one of these short-term goals, but only if we discuss it and make it plausible that our future will be bleak without our actions.

On the other hand, the loss of a person's livelihood due to automation may pose a threat to their survival. When you lose your job as a shop assistant, train to become an Uber driver, and then lose your job as an Uber driver due to self-driving cars, it can feel like an uphill battle to find work you're qualified for; you are trapped in a death spiral and running out of options. At some point you and millions of others will not find work anywhere. Next you will become billions in number, unable to pay for life essentials.

Those who are still employed, on the other hand, will run out of customers to whom they can sell their goods and services. Even they will start to gradually disappear from the labor market.

What should we do in response when the time comes? A citizen's salary is my solution, as well as that of many others. But there are additional obstacles, such as determining who, if anyone, owns the energy radiated by the sun or the energy released in the binding of different atomic nuclei.

[Age]

Your predictions about the future are obviously based on movies. Of course, these are not the only possible outcomes. Nonetheless, your description is plausible. So, as civilized people, I believe we should begin discussing what kind of future we want and how we can prepare for it. We must immediately begin putting in place safeguards to prevent the worst-case scenarios from becoming a reality.

Sure, partially, but its also a twist on Brave New World and other dystopian literature.

I think that *dystopian* future is already here. Power will not be capable of avoiding exploiting the level of control possible as AI gets 100 times more sophisticated.

Our discussions of what we’d like as future will take a remote place behind what power is doing and will do.

A related issue, wondering if you know of her work?

What you're saying about targeted marketing is frightening, and it's already happening. However, in contrast to the difficulty we face in the long run, I do not believe that it poses an immediate risk to our lives or existence. In a previous post that was more about the future, which is the main topic of this forum, you said that "excess human beings" and "unneeded populations" might have to be killed off in the future. It seems to me like an unnecessary and dangerous "solution," like a cold wind from the past.

It will be easier to reach an agreement on what to do in the short term if we can reach a consensus regarding the type of future we foresee. Dealing with targeted marketing may be one of these short-term goals, but only if we discuss it and make it plausible that our future will be bleak without our actions.

On the other hand, the loss of a person's livelihood due to automation may pose a threat to their survival. When you lose your job as a shop assistant, train to become an Uber driver, and then lose your job as an Uber driver due to self-driving cars, it can feel like an uphill battle to find work you're qualified for; you are trapped in a death spiral and running out of options. At some point you and millions of others will not find work anywhere. Next you will become billions in number, unable to pay for life essentials.

Those who are still employed, on the other hand, will run out of customers to whom they can sell their goods and services. Even they will start to gradually disappear from the labor market.

What should we do in response when the time comes? A citizen's salary is my solution, as well as that of many others. But there are additional obstacles, such as determining who, if anyone, owns the energy radiated by the sun or the energy released in the binding of different atomic nuclei.

Considering the Fact that 'money' and the 'want of more money' are completely UNNECESSARY things in Life, ANY concern about, or over, jobs and money is also a completely UNNECESSARY thing, in Life.