the soup de jure...

[Peter Kropotkin]

In thinking about what human beings seek,
we seek permanence, infinity, immutability,
dependability, stability..... our laws, our philosophies, our
theologies, our government, all attempts to find what is
permanent and solid in life... but instead we find our
lives fixed, bounded, limited, restricted, finite...
and what have we found that is universal, common,
global, unlimited? That we are, all human beings,
are connected to each other by needs, biological,
physical, emotional needs... we are, in ways that sometimes
we don't even understand, connected because we are linked
by evolution into being social creatures.. I cannot exist alone,
and you cannot exist alone... I can only survive with the help
of my fellow human beings and you can only survive with the help
of your fellow human beings... all of our biological and physical
needs can only be met within the framework of help by
other human beings... thus we have a society, family,
state, theology, philosophy, all geared to us becoming
human beings...in other words, us becoming human is
a collective process, and it does take a village...

we began, as Nietzsche pointed out, began as animals,
and we are on the road to going from animal to becoming
human.. most of us, most of us is somewhere around being
animal/human to animal... some, some very impressive few
have made the journey to becoming human, fully human...
Goethe, Shakespeare, Gandhi, MLK, Jesus, have pointed
the path to becoming human...

and think of the message that each of these extraordinary
people have given us... each of them, every single one,
didn't say, me or I alone....but every single one said, we or us...
Love they neighbor is a collective message, Goethe's Faust
was a story of one man, one individual man who found himself
by engaging with others.. within a society... in the end, he was
saved by love.... and love can only be found with another...

both MLK and Gandhi created mass movements, mass movements
that engaged thousands of people, indeed millions of people...
it takes a village and beyond to create change..
the question of existence is not how do I become a better person,
but how do we become better, as a people?
The question of becoming a better person is a collective question,
not an individual question.....

and how do we become better, as a people?.. there is a whole
cottage industry that engages with people, by making existence
an "US VS THEM" problem.. ...Americans' vs immigrants, Christians vs non-Christians,
hated of Jews, hated of minorities, hatred of.. whatever the ''hated
de jour'' is..... forcing people into "US vs THEM", is isolating
and dehumanizing, for all involved...

The dehumanizing effect of "every man for himself" cannot
be overestimated....it is a path to failure, both individually
and collectively.... next post I shall engage further into this
question...

Kropotkin

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Is that supposed to be 'soup du jour'?

[Peter Kropotkin]

we Americans, seek the baubles of existence,
we seek wealth, fame, power, material goods,
titles.. all of which are transitory, temporary,
finite, not universal.. and we seek what is permanent,
universal, global, comprehensive, all-embracing...
and the baubles of existence are not universal or
permanent...wealth can and does leave us, as does fame,
as does titles and power and material goods are about as finite as
as something can be...

the question of existence is about how existence is finite,
temporary... and how do we deal with or cope with that
knowledge that everything we see, touch, hear, taste or smell
is finite, temporary, even ideas are finite, temporary
or where might one study Phrenology?

so we are left with everything being finite, impermanent,
temporary.... and how do we handle that problem, intellectually,
emotionally, psychologically? One of the fundamental needs of
all people, is the need to belong.... one of the ways we seek
this need to belong is to hold convictions such as nationalism,
antisemitism, xenophobia, racism, bigotry.. or we find
belonging in our mutual hatred of others.... and it is easy to
hate.. for hate is one of the lower, animal traits.... to hate is to
seek the animal in us.. to love is to seek the human within us....
and anyone who has walked in the mountains can tell you,
it is far easier to walk downhill than to walk uphill....
to seek out what is human in us is walking uphill,
and thus, much harder than seeking out the animal within us,
hatred, anger, lust, greed...

and if there is, as I have suggested, no universal, no permanent
in our world, then we must seek what is universal and permanent
within us, the need/drive to become human....

my soul cannot be sated or satisfied with seeking the finite,
the impermanent, the temporary, but I can find satisfaction
within me by seeking what is universal and permanent within us..
in seeking love, peace, hope, charity, justice, we come the closes
to finding the universal within us... our needs which are
universal in all human beings.... the universal is found within us,
not outside of us... for all human beings, all time, and into
the future, need love, a sense of belonging, a sense of
safety/security, all the essential emotional, psychological
needs of being human.. and of course, we have the physical
needs that all humans, who every was and who ever will be, need..
that is what is universal.. our needs, both physical and
psychological... the universal search is not outside of us,
but inside of us...seek what is universal, that of needs
and how do we meet those needs...

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

Is that supposed to be 'soup du jour'?

K: flunked high school French..

Kropotkin

[Harbal]

In thinking about what human beings seek,

Their keys is the first thing that comes into my mind.

[Belinda]

In thinking about what human beings seek,

Their keys is the first thing that comes into my mind.

Some men seek to complete a task they have begun while others can change their priorities as and when the situation changes. Some men abandon the search for car keys and get their bicycle out of the shed.

[Harbal]

Some men seek to complete a task they have begun while others can change their priorities as and when the situation changes. Some men abandon the search for car keys and get their bicycle out of the shed.

I keep my bicycle in my bedroom. I only live in a flat and don't have anywhere else to put it. As for tasks; I don't seek to complete many, I spend much more time seeking to start them.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Is that supposed to be 'soup du jour'?

K: flunked high school French..

Kropotkin

You need that to use google? There is also a thing on here called and editing function.

[Peter Kropotkin]

So, part of the search within philosophy, is this search
for what is actually permanent, universal, enduring,
perennial (note that philosophy is often called perennial philosophy,
by dealing with questions that have bedeviled humanity since the
beginning of time)

And given that we have already decided that the baubles of
existence, fame, money, power, material goods, titles are, at best,
impermanent, transitory, ephemeral, what does seem to be permanent
and enduring to us, philosophically?

certainly not the baubles of existence, but what about ideas,
feelings, emotions, beliefs... things that impact the mind, soul,
emotions? I have suffered, from illness to the pain of watching
death to growing old, to knowing that I am far closer to my death
than I am to my birth... for that is part of the human condition,
to remember the past, to feel the present and fear the future...

but also, in knowing that the "I", Kropotkin will also die, no
longer exists and my physical body will end...religions/theology
gives us the faint hope of "life after death" a foolish hope,
I am reminded of Hamlet's soliloquy...

"... to die, to sleep; to sleep; perchance to dream: ay, there is the rub;
for in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we have
shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause:"

or the fact that we might not dream at all... now as Hume suggested,
my impending death is not a sure thing, for what certainties do we have
in life? My future death is an assumption on my part, as is most
of theology, assumptions all... that we have a soul, that we will live
forever in heaven, that there is a god, that there are angels and demons
and hell and sin and salvation... assumptions all...and part of the task
of Philosophy is to remove, end assumptions, to learn what is
real and what isn't...to discover or work out what is transitory,
and impermanent and temporary and find out what is permanent
and forever in our lives....

so, frankly, we can remove much of what passes for important in life,
as crap... the search for power or money or material possessions, fame,
as they are transitory and fleeting...

so, I ask, what is permanent in our lives?

Plato believed in the idea of "eternal form" that which is
of "higher" reality than material goods or our baubles of existence....
but that Platonic idea is based on the assumption of a higher power who
created those "eternal forms"... eternal forms require assumptions...
and we philosophers are not in the business of making assumptions...
and our ''business'' is to remove assumptions and find what is permanent...

but Kropotkin, isn't that an assumption.. nope, we seek the truth,
and in seeking the truth, we remove assumptions and
find what is permanent... and that is why Nietzsche's "overcoming"
is so important... we are overcoming the already installed
assumptions of the family, the state, society, the media, our
very education is a litany of assumptions...designed to
make us workers and producers and consumers...to make us
"good citizens" but not to make us human beings or wise or
free to discover our own possibilities... no....

it seems to me that the road itself is permanent and real...
the road from us going from animal to animal/human to becoming
fully human... free from the assumptions that we currently have...
that man has some destiny to fulfill or to find..... we do not have
a destiny to fulfill... we can only become who we are by
overcoming our animal instincts..... ..

the path to becoming human, that is what is permanent in our lives....
my own possibilities are what is real... It is no longer possible
for me to reach many of my earlier possibilities, to be a great
track star or to become an astronaut or to climb Mt. Everest..
those possibilities no longer exist for me..... but becoming
the greatest philosopher of all time, that is still possible for me...
and so, that is what I strive for... to becoming the greatest philosopher
of all time....I most likely will fail, but not because of lack of
effort or desire... and the goal, that possibility is what is
real in my life....until it isn't.... and then I must find another
goal/possibility to seek... so what is real/permanent in my life?
the possibility of becoming something... I may or may not
reach it, but that journey of becoming is what is permanent
and real in my life...and why? Because it isn't dependent on
external or outside of me factors... the possibilities I decide on
and accept are what is real in my life... and even those will
change because of age, illness, chances in life...
but my choices, possibilities are what matters in my life...

for I and I alone decide what my choices and possibilities are,
not someone else....and that makes all the difference in
the world....but as I am reminded by Nietzsche, the battle,
doesn't lay outside of me, fighting forces outside of me,
but of my engagement within me...that is the true battle
of existence... in becoming, as my own choice and an engagement
with my own possibilities and goals... to become human on my
own terms and possibilities...

Kropotkin

[FlashDangerpants]

Is that supposed to be 'soup du jour'?

I only opened this thread to see if he had done a clever Latin to French pun or was just doing a Bone Apple Teat routine by mistake.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Is that supposed to be 'soup du jour'?

I only opened this thread to see if he had done a clever Latin to French pun or was just doing a Bone Apple Teat routine by mistake.

I just don't understand why posters just leave their sloppy, nonsense headings 'as is' instead of simply editing them. Extreme arrogance I suppose. Probably arseholes in the 'real world'...

[Walker]

Is that supposed to be 'soup du jour'?

I only opened this thread to see if he had done a clever Latin to French pun or was just doing a Bone Apple Teat routine by mistake.

I just don't understand why posters just leave their sloppy, nonsense headings 'as is' instead of simply editing them. Extreme arrogance I suppose. Probably arseholes in the 'real world'...

Talk about your hyperbolic extrapolations. Hang 'em high.

*

soup du jour = soup de jure

is like

touché touché = touchy touchy.

Sort of.

(Did you observe the beauty of that formatting. The ease of reading. The clarity.)

[RJami1]

While some men may adjust their priorities as and when the situation changes, others work to finish a task they have started. Some men give up looking for their car keys and take their bikes out of the storage building.