Reincarnation

[Age]

There should be lovely, pristine clinics you can go to when you've had enough of this bullshit. Clinics that are full of the best psychedlic drugs where you can go off blissfully into a beautiful fractal universe

I agree! We should be able to step out pleasantly when we're done.

If one is NOT incapacitated, then what is stopping them from 'stepping out'?

Also, maybe if it was easy, people would appreciate and explore their life's potential more.

[Age]

No one said it was a female elephant.

Ooops, there you go again. Making sure to rub it in real good and proper.

It’s your kind of excitement baiting people for a mean and nasty reaction I guess. Not enough just to bait; but you get double the thrill to revel in the reaction, I guess the double kick for you is just too irresistible.

Well, I'll once again ask this serious question.

In principle, what is most important to a person? What is most precious? What will a person defend, sometimes even if it means the end? The answer is the same to each question.

And what is 'that' answer?

[Walker]

You don't know much do you ...

I know what's most important to a person.

However, you cannot even process that sentence in order to make a coherent response other than a declaration of incomprehension.

[Walker]

And what is 'that' answer?

If you review, you will notice that a new condition has been established. That condition is, in the matter of this request, VT speaks for all. That's just how it worked out.

If DAM is any indication, any further chit-chat on the topic is wasted words.

[Iwannaplato]

Yes, I understand why he would have been upset nailed to a cross and left to die a slow agonising death. I understand that anyone in the same situation would also be upset.

Great.

But I brought up the scenario of the crucifixion because earlier you made it sound like in Christianity you could not doubt, should not doubt. But here we have Jesus, in the central part of Christianity, as the central figure, calling out in doubt and despair. To me that says there is room for doubt in Christianity. And I know this from feet on the ground from interactions with Christians.

I stick by the fact that we should not doubt the inevitibility of pain, suffering and death, it's what every living thing has been sentenced to by life. Jesus calling out to God in despair would be a futile appeal because most normal rational intelligent thinking human beings know there is no such thing as a God who is going to save us from death. That's all I've been saying all along.

That's a different issue. As I said, this had to do with....

A fixed belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts.

In reference to Christianity. I don't think that one is expected not to doubt, given points I've made a few times.

Look, I understand why he was upset, no need to keep taking this issue off on a tangent that we end up losing all sight of the actual issue we are supposed to be engaged in.

Supposed to be engaged in? Perhaps there is a subject, reincarnation maybe, that you want us to be engaged in, but I don't know what authority has decided what we are supposed to be engaged in or how their preference is a should for me or you or anyone here.

Are we getting any clearer about this issue yet?

I have understood for quite a while your position on God, etc. As part of your comments you have made statements that I think are not true. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you, so you repeat things I did not comment on, now several times.

[Age]

But if you weren't alive, you couldn't thrash back and forth between hate and love dramatically, which is clearly how you roll rather than playing a completely different game with your energy.

It has been my own experience that thrashing back and forth between hate and love is the same one energy. That's my theory anyway, I'm not asking anyone to agree with that.

For me personally, there is no other game to play. I have been forced to play this game, since I'm alive and there is nothing I could have done to prevent myself from being alive. I didn't make myself alive, so I have no other option than to play the game of being alive. I can hate the experience with just as much passion as I can love the experience. If I could ever have the luxury of personally choosing to be alive, I probably wouldn't.

BUT 'you' could NEVER have the EXACT SAME experiences AGAIN. So, 'you' could NEVER be the SAME 'you' again, and therefore there will NEVER be another 'you' who HATES Life, EXACTLY like 'you' do. If 'you' could come back again, 'you' would have DIFFERENT experiences, which therefore means that 'you' might actually LOVE life, more, than 'you' did back in 'those days', when this was being written.

'you' only HATE Life because of what 'you' HAD TO ENDURE in 'your' childhood

Do you have any other capability you haven't explored yet?

I suppose I've explored everything to be honest.

I've particularly enjoyed exploring living as a recluse, in solitude, alone, which does apparently seem to suit my character very much, it simulates the death state for me, that's when I am at my most happiest and feel most comfort and contentment.

The DESIRE and WANT to be HEARD and LISTENED TO however has obviously NOT diminished.

Falling in love with the opposite sex because I am not gay, is another capability I have explored which is a very blissful experience for me especially when my love for the man is requited back to me with mutual passion and commitment.

But would ANY sane adult human being really expect one, of the so-called 'opposite sex', to love them back when they absolutely and utterly HATE Life.

The love experience is probably one of the most pleasurable experiences I have explored while being alive, but then it can also be one of the most painful experiences when the love is unrequited.

WHO do 'you' envision would 'love' one who HATES Life?

And, what is this 'love experience', EXACTLY, which 'you' speak of here?

Even though I am fully aware that the play of opposites ( love and hate ) is all so very fleeting and temporal, and that all that I will hate and love will eventually disappear from the stage of life as though nothing ever happened.

But whether one loves or hates 'Life', Itself, 'Life' NEVER ends NOR ceases.

Life for me personally, is a cocktail of having and having not, wanting and not wanting what I've wanted, desire and disinterest, enthusiasm and apathetic, being attentive and distraction. It's a bumpy rollercoaster ride to nowhere, and the thrill is thinking and believing it is leading somehwere other than a dead end.

OBVIOUSLY 'you' STILL have a great deal to UNCOVER and LEARN.

[Age]

OMG. It wasn't the death that was the issue...Christ knew full well of life\death\life...no big deal. IT is likely to have been the LEVEL OF PAIN\SUFFERING that God permitted Christ to endure.

My issue with life is Y (why) would any moral decent intelligence create a universe comprised of living sentient organisms that were capable of feeling excrutiating pain, suffering, agony, despair and torture, just for the sake of being able to feel the fleeting moments that is known as pleasure.

But there is NO 'excruciating pain', 'suffering', 'agony', 'despair' and 'torture' in Life. Of course other than those things being caused only by 'you', adult human beings.

For example: imagine the sensation of being burnt alive until dead.

Without the cause of one being burned alive by a human being how long do 'you' imagine the sensation/experience would last for?

Now, after that relatively very short period that one is 'dead', as some so. So, what would there REALLY to be concerned about here?

Or jumping out of the twin tower windows knowing on the way down you were never going to see your loved ones ever again,

I wonder if that was what those people were REALLY wondering or thinking about? Also, would a "christian" think that thing?

not to mention the anticipation of knowing you are about to become a pile of pulp as you hit the ground.

Well ALL human bodies end up being a 'pile of pulp' eventually, anyway.

Is it just me atto, or are we obliged to think this is all perfectly ok and acceptable, and that we need to be grateful for our lives because somewhere out-there, there is some mighty loving supreme intelligence much greater than we will ever be, that has created these earthly experiences to be possible.

For me personally, I do not think so, no supreme intelligence would have bothered with such barbaric stupidity.

'you' REALLY DO have SO MUCH MORE to learn and understand here "dontaskme".

[Age]

OMG. It wasn't the death that was the issue...Christ knew full well of life\death\life...no big deal. IT is likely to have been the LEVEL OF PAIN\SUFFERING that God permitted Christ to endure.

My issue with life is Y (why) would any moral decent intelligence create a universe comprised of living sentient organisms that were capable of feeling excrutiating pain, suffering, agony, despair and torture, just for the sake of being able to feel the fleeting moments that is known as pleasure. For example: imagine the sensation of being burnt alive until dead. Or jumping out of the twin tower windows knowing on the way down you were never going to see your loved ones ever again, not to mention the anticipation of knowing you are about to become a pile of pulp as you hit the ground.

Is it just me atto, or are we obliged to think this is all perfectly ok and acceptable, and that we need to be grateful for our lives because somewhere out-there, there is some mighty loving supreme intelligence much greater than we will ever be, that has created these earthly experiences to be possible.

For me personally, I do not think so, no supreme intelligence would have bothered with such barbaric stupidity.

It all comes back to what I have been saying. This God entity can eliminate suffering from the POV of what you PERCEIVE is happening to someone. My best advice is consider your brain is in a simulation and don't just accept that what you perceive is actually happening to a sentient being.

Is this REALLY the 'best' advice 'you' could give?

The God is above that.

[Age]

I love your honesty. Some people get really offended when others don't lust for life the way they do. Well they can really just go fuck themselves. It's none of their business. There should be lovely, pristine clinics you can go to when you've had enough of this bullshit. Clinics that are full of the best psychedlic drugs where you can go off blissfully into a beautiful fractal universe

Thanks Veg.

(((smile)))

Have you ever noticed, no one alive ever walks around with a permanent smile on their face.

Have you ever noticed the way 'you', adult human beings, treat and mistreat children?

Maybe it's because there is nothing to smile about.

So, because human beings do not walk around ALWAYS smiling, then, to "dontaskme", this MEANS that there is absolutely NOTHING AT ALL to smile about.

Some of 'us' can RECOGNIZE and SEE the DISTORTED THINKING here straightaway.

And that we always seem to fake our smile.

So, to "dontaskme", what "dontaskme" does, automatically, transfers to what absolutely EVERY one else does.

We instinctively know that there's nothing to smile about, and that there's just a natural impartial neutrality about being alive. To Grimace or to Smile, is just a conditioned human reaction to what is essentially an indifferent cold uncaring unforgiving universe.

LOL 'you' begin to speak some sense, but then instantly KILL that off with 'your' OWN MISGUIDED, False, Wrong, and Incorrect INTERPRETATIONS.

Why do we smile for the camera, is it because that's when we get to look at ourself square in the face.

Is that WHY 'you' smile 'for the camera', "dontaskme"?

I guess we wouldn't want to know what's really lurking beneath that smile, so I guess we smile even though our heart is aching, because that's the reality of it, that's about your lot, so you better wear that smile, you better look on the bright side of life.


.

[Dontaskme]

When 'you' have been ABUSED, the way that 'you' have been "dontaskme", then 'we' do NOT expect ANY thing from, NOR of, 'you'.

And, maybe if 'you' were Honest much earlier on in Life, and were NOT pretending, like 'you' do now, then 'you' might have a much BETTER UNDERSTANDING of Life, and living, than 'you' do now.

Also, if 'you', as an adult human being, live in or with pain and suffering, and have been living with NOTHING but pain and suffering, then all 'we' can really do is APOLOGIZE for ALL the ABUSE that 'you', obviously, HAD TO endure as a child.

For if you grew up with NO abuse AT ALL, then you would NOT be living a life of pain and suffering AT ALL, NOW.

No apology is necessary.

There's always 3 sides to every story. There's your side the other person side and then the truth.
The acceptance of something undesirable but inevitable.

[Age]

It all comes back to what I have been saying. This God entity can eliminate suffering from the POV of what you PERCEIVE is happening to someone. My best advice is consider your brain is in a simulation and don't just accept that what you perceive is actually happening to a sentient being. The God is above that.

Alright atto, if that's what you believe is true or real, I have no desire to contest what is your belief.

Personally though, I happen to know by direct experience that suffering and pain is a real sensation that reincarnates over and over again while there is here a free will and choice to procreate more conscious feeling sentient organisms into existence to experience it as well.

And, "others" happen to KNOW, by direct experience, OTHER things, AS WELL.

[Dontaskme]

Yes, I understand why he would have been upset nailed to a cross and left to die a slow agonising death. I understand that anyone in the same situation would also be upset.

Great.

But I brought up the scenario of the crucifixion because earlier you made it sound like in Christianity you could not doubt, should not doubt. But here we have Jesus, in the central part of Christianity, as the central figure, calling out in doubt and despair. To me that says there is room for doubt in Christianity. And I know this from feet on the ground from interactions with Christians.

I stick by the fact that we should not doubt the inevitibility of pain, suffering and death, it's what every living thing has been sentenced to by life. Jesus calling out to God in despair would be a futile appeal because most normal rational intelligent thinking human beings know there is no such thing as a God who is going to save us from death. That's all I've been saying all along.

That's a different issue. As I said, this had to do with....

A fixed belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts.

In reference to Christianity. I don't think that one is expected not to doubt, given points I've made a few times.

Look, I understand why he was upset, no need to keep taking this issue off on a tangent that we end up losing all sight of the actual issue we are supposed to be engaged in.

Supposed to be engaged in? Perhaps there is a subject, reincarnation maybe, that you want us to be engaged in, but I don't know what authority has decided what we are supposed to be engaged in or how their preference is a should for me or you or anyone here.

Are we getting any clearer about this issue yet?

I have understood for quite a while your position on God, etc. As part of your comments you have made statements that I think are not true. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you, so you repeat things I did not comment on, now several times.

Ok, I guess that settles the matter then. Does this make any difference to my personal philosophy on reality. No.

Thanks for nothing.

[Dontaskme]

Age, would you like to receive this as a gift, it's free from me to you.


Here, this is for you! __________

[Age]

It has been my own experience that thrashing back and forth between hate and love is the same one energy. That's my theory anyway, I'm not asking anyone to agree with that.

I imagined you were going to say that... and I agree in part. Everything is made up of the same energy. At the same time, that energy can manifest in so many ways. I guess, being human, enables us to experience the same as different.

By the way, I really enjoyed your clear and easy-to-follow response. At this moment it feels like you and I could be sitting under a tree somewhere, having a cosmic conversation.

For me personally, there is no other game to play. I didn't make myself alive, so I have no other option than to play the game of being alive.

So, you're saying that, for you, there's no other game to play associated with being alive, right?

That sounds like (if I may suggest) that's because that's the game you are committed to.

I can hate the experience with just as much passion as I can love the experience.

I get that. I can see and experience that, myself. Isn't that the amazing thing about being alive? From all the sameness, we can create and experience so much difference? It's all like 'colorful paint' that we can create with. It's all like single cells that can turn into so many different things. It's all atoms... all the same... with the capability for vast manifestations. Magnificent! And yes, within the confines of being human, it can feel terribly restricted. But this is how we experience all the sensory stuff humans are capable of, yes?

Here is ANOTHER one with SO MUCH MORE to learn and understand here.

Flesh and blood... capable of feeling euphoria and capable of being hacked up. The glory of life may be to experience it passionately while we can.

"dontaskme" is experiencing Life VERY passionately.

As can be CLEARLY SEEN here "dontaskme' 'passionately' HATES Life.

For reasons I don't know, my awareness is here in this human body.

When, and if, 'you' become NOT SO CLOSED, then the reason WHY there IS awareness in the human body becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR.

I've experienced everything from absolute bliss to complete and utter despair. Is it possible to see the beauty in all of it?

And, it is ALSO possible to see the ugliness in all of it, as well. As can be CLEARLY SEEN.

When, and if, 'you', "lacewing", ever become Truly OPEN ALSO, then 'you' too can SEE the True possibilities here.

Personally, I think so. An incredible experience playing out across a blank screen of so much possibility.

WHY does what is just NATURALLY happening and occurring HERE seem like an 'incredible' experience, to 'you'?

There is so much that I (this awareness) can inject into it!

AND, so much of what 'you' inject is False, Wrong, and Incorrect. As can be CLEARLY SEEN above.

There have been many chapters. I practice my craft of creating. Like playing a game over and over, hoping for better odds while using my improved capabilities. Remember how I've previously spoken about living on a beautiful woodland property that I developed?

So, here we have one who thinks or BELIEVES that 'it' can create MORE 'beauty' than Nature, Itself.

I wonder if this one would STOP to CONSIDER that 'it' is just wanting to 'develop' Nature, Itself, into what it, ALONE, wants and desires, and considers to be 'beautiful'?

Well, I recently moved! I let it go. Such a wonderfully magical place! Yet, maintaining it (my creation) was becoming a burden.

JUST MAYBE IF 'you' had left Nature alone, then It would NOT have OVERTAKEN and OVERRIDDEN 'your' miserable and fruitless attempt to 'develop' It.

'creating' things for 'your' OWN personal desires and wants is just a fruitless, greedy, and VERY SELFISH way of life and living anyway.

So, I sold it to some ecstatic people (they get to create with it now), and I'm exploring new territory... on lots of levels. It appears that I use the 'sameness', the 'one energy', to continually create with through this human form. What will I create 'here' and 'now'? It's all unknown, but I'm excited to see. I don't imagine there are any limits to it.

There are NO limits, to the ways 'you', VERY GREEDY and SELFISH adult human beings can 'create' 'things' for 'your' GREEDY and SELFISH personal DESIRES, while DESTROYING thee One and ONLY home that 'you' HAVE and ALL SHARE.

But carry on as 'you' are, money is the most important thing here, right?

I suppose I've explored everything to be honest.

Perhaps 'everything' you've considered so far? Might there always be more -- even from/within the human experience -- in an expanding Universe of so many levels and possibilities?

LOL Here we have ANOTHER one who thinks or BELIEVES that thee Universe IS EXPANDING.

Hey, I ask myself these questions too! And there are times I cannot see beyond a particular experience/perspective.

At least this one is Honest about how CLOSED 'it' REALLY IS.

It's all temporary and it's always shifting.

What does the 'It' refer to here?

Are 'you' NOT YET AWARE that some of 'this' is NOT 'temporary' AT ALL?

'your', 'it is ALWAYS shifting' comment in your sentence SHOWS that 'you' ARE.

I think we can ride the flow rather than standing in place and feeling jarred by all of the natural movement going on.

'you' THINK 'we' can do this, but 'you' VERY RARELY do this "yourself".

'you' have some of the most CLOSED and thus FIXED IN PLACE views and BELIEFS in this forum "lacewing".

Which have REALLY JARRED 'you', as 'we' have been continually MOVING ALONG HERE.

I've particularly enjoyed exploring living as a recluse, in solitude, alone, which does apparently seem to suit my character very much.

I have enjoyed that a lot in my life too. It's not part of my life now, though, as I've embarked on a partnership adventure.

Falling in love with the opposite sex because I am not gay, is another capability I have explored which is a very blissful experience for me especially when my love for the man is requited back to me with mutual passion and commitment. The love experience is probably one of the most pleasurable experiences I have explored while being alive, but then it can also be one of the most painful experiences when the love is unrequited.

That's my experience too. It's different now, though, than I've experienced before. The relationship I'm in is more about creating a kind partnership that serves us both, hopefully for the remainder of our lives.

Feeling the NEED to be WITH someone ELSE SHOWS and REVEALS the ABUSE one has gone through, previously.

We both left our previous lives behind to explore new territory together. It was terribly brave... and utterly overwhelming at times... but the rewards have been beyond imagination.

And there has absolutely been NO greediness NOR selfishness AT ALL on your parts, correct "lacewing"?

Also, WHY is just doing some thing different being, so-called, 'terribly brave'?

And, one would NOT feel 'utterly overwhelmed' by just doing some thing different if they were NOT 'trying to' FIGHT what is just the NATURAL process of things.

We are really good to each other (most of the time ).

So, 'you' two have STILL NOT YET grown up. But this is the result of ABUSE.

I've never had a kinder and more supportive partner. He shows that he adores me every day.

WHY do 'you' even NEED to feel 'adored'?

The answer, by the way, is BECAUSE 'you' STILL do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' AM, EXACTLY.

This is who he has become despite struggling with alcoholism many years ago...

LOL 'you' state this like people who liked to drink alcohol previously can NOT 'love' EVER AGAIN.

and he is open to exploring the potential of the Universe with me as it manifests in the life we are creating together now.

WHY do 'you' keep mentioning the 'potential of the Universe' like there ever was some sort of limit here?

I treasure him, and I'm continually exploring 'more' that I can become individually too.

WHY do 'you' NOT 'treasure' EVERY one EQUALLY?

There just seems to continually be ways for this 'sameness' to keep manifesting, ya know?

But it has been "dontaskme" that has been TELLING 'you' that there is ONLY this ONENESS, or 'sameness'. And, OBVIOUSLY, this SAME ONENESS IS ALWAYS 'manifesting'.

Even when I think I've experienced the pinnacle, there's more!

LOL
LOL
LOL

Thinking or BELIEVING there was some 'pinnacle'.

I am SO GRATEFUL... and I think that has been an important key for me!

BUT, IF 'you' had been ABUSED, like some "others" HAVE, then 'you' would NOT be SO GRATEFUL, and WOULD HATE Life, as much as they DO.

'you' come to LEARN and UNDERSTAND this Fact, through FULL EMPATHY, which comes NATURALLY when being Truly and FULLY OPEN.

I've heard it said: if we don't have gratitude for what we have, we don't get more.

Some could say that 'you' are now just RUBBING 'it' IN, to "dontaskme".

Seriously, HOW could ANY one be 'grateful' for absolutely ANY thing when they absolutely HATE living, and Life, Itself?

What do 'you' imagine that they would be 'grateful' for, EXACTLY?

It's probably easier for people to imagine/believe how much worse things can get... and then they see that is so.

So, when there is NOT one single thing that one LIKES about being alive and living, what do 'you' imagine they could think of that could get worse?

But why not practice the opposite, equally true potential? How much better/greater things can get... and see that is so! Imagine that the most blissful way you've ever felt can be magnified and experienced even greater. Why not?

WHY NOT imagine and consider how 'it' feels for one when they just HATE Life, Itself?

HOW about INSTEAD of TELLING "others" what 'you' do, and PREACHING to them that they 'should' do that ALSO, 'you' STOP and CONSIDER the "other"?

JUST MAYBE just doing 'this' VERY SIMPLE and EASY little thing WILL make Life, and living, MUCH BETTER for EVERY 'one', (of 'you').

It's a bumpy rollercoaster ride to nowhere, and the thrill is thinking and believing it is leading somehwere other than a dead end.

I think it helps to let go of any specific ideas about where it leads or what it's limited to. Be in the moment with gratitude and allow the potential for more gratitude to manifest.

And when 'you' are on 'your' 'death bed' are 'you' going to be GRATEFUL for 'dying' AS WELL?

[Age]

The natural state is peace of mind independent of external circumstances, although some situations are more challenging than others, until they become effortless, and to be effortless is relaxed.

But 'what circumstance' do 'you' imagine or envision would be 'more challenging'?

Although the world and sensation may be spinning around you like a top, if you're the still axis then you're at peace, no matter the rotation.

But 'you' just said and implied that there are SOME situations that are MORE challenging. I can NOT think of absolutely ANY, so hopefully 'you' will CLARIFY this here for 'us'.

However, the question still remains.

What is most important to a person?

But we are waiting for 'you' to answer this question, which was posed to 'you', "walker".