Reincarnation

[Harbal]

You were a flower once, I remember watering you during the night.

Thank you.

[Iwannaplato]

You can evade and dance like this on the screen. But off there in real life, wherever you are, those things you are hiding and not saying, they come through clearly.

How can you possibly know what any of us are like away from "the screen"?

So, in the exchange dontaskme and I are having the epistemological issue that struck you was how I could know this about her, not all the things she is saying about reality and all of us, including some pretty condescending stuff?

Here are some things she has said to me and then also to us....

God/religion is the ultimate pleasure your mind has created.

Your thinking mechanism which demands permanence is a dead thing.

''My mind'' is the ultimate pleasure your mind has created.

Poor you, ye of little knowledge.

And yes, Harbal, I realize she is aiming this is a wide generalized spray, in some way, whereas I was speaking directly to her. She may not think she is a human or an individual, but rather this echoing oneness. I think there is some truth in that, but for me she is an individual, and she says a lot of stuff about us humans, sometimes in ways that echo Age. But her messages include me (and you, though she is fond of you, so the condescension may never be aimed at you at an individual level). But regardless of the spiritual, generalized spray format, I think some of her assertions have epistemological problems that seem not to matter to you.

[Dontaskme]

Iwannaplato

Is there anything wrong with sharing my philosophy on reality and life on a philosophy forum?

What is it about my philosophy that you find condescending?

[Harbal]

So, in the exchange dontaskme and I are having the epistemological issue that struck you was how I could know this about her, not all the things she is saying about reality and all of us, including some pretty condescending stuff?

I just don't think you can accurately infer things about a person based on what they post online. People make totally wrong assumptions about me all the time, so I know from my own experience.

I think some of her assertions have epistemological problems that seem not to matter to you.

No, I don't suppose epistemological problems do bother me much. One or two posters here have worrying religious and political views; they are the only things that really bother me.

[attofishpi]

Why would he be upset about the inevitable part of being alive?

I think the answer regarding Jesus in any case was because he was human.

It is likely that the PAIN threshold that God allowed to occur had gone too far...that and the factor relating later to others, and their DOUBT of God when running the gauntlet of God's TESTS.

[popeye1945]

Why would he be upset about the inevitable part of being alive?

I think the answer regarding Jesus in any case was because he was human.

It is likely that the PAIN threshold that God allowed to occur had gone too far...that and the factor relating later to others, and their DOUBT of God when running the gauntlet of God's TESTS.

Which god?

[attofishpi]

I think the answer regarding Jesus in any case was because he was human.

It is likely that the PAIN threshold that God allowed to occur had gone too far...that and the factor relating later to others, and their DOUBT of God when running the gauntlet of God's TESTS.

Which god?

Oooh, haven't heard an atheist with that question before, cliche muppet! THE God.

[popeye1945]

It is likely that the PAIN threshold that God allowed to occur had gone too far...that and the factor relating later to others, and their DOUBT of God when running the gauntlet of God's TESTS.

Which god?

Oooh, haven't heard an atheist with that question before, cliche muppet! THE God.

I am HE, my children, tie your asses to a tree and come drink of my words and you shall be forgiven, all you wretched bastards.

[Age]

AND, EVERY time you bring up this 'concept', 'I' am going to inform 'you' that what 'you' call 'mysterious' is NOT 'mysterious', AT ALL, to ALL of 'us'.

The 'you' is a mystery even to itself because there is no way for 'you' to be present at your own conception or your own death. So that which is a mystery cannot not be a mystery as the concept is known. A 'known'' can never be made unknown, that simply wouldn't make any sense either.

Although 'you' are absolutely FREE to say and do absolutely ANY thing, I suggest 'you' telling "others" what they can or can not know and do is NOT going to help 'you', AT ALL.

It is mostly because of those BELIEFS, which 'you', adult human beings, have and hold onto, the reason WHY things do NOT make 'sense', to 'you'.

Remove the BELIEFS and 'sense' just comes, and flows, NATURALLY.

The Sense of any Sensation is obviously known in the experience of it. But that's not the sense being pointed to here, what's being pointed to here, is how are we supposed to make sense of the affirmation that Jesus is the son of his Father who is not human.

OBVIOUSLY that was NOT what was being POINTED to here at all. What WAS being pointed to here WAS in regards to making 'ANY sense' or, in other words, making 'sense of things'. Which is VERY DIFFERENT from making sense to that ONE thing about "jesus" and some alleged non human father.

Now, making sense of that ONE thing IS VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY to do, by the way.

One just needs to remove their mispreconception 'you' have here in order to just begin to see, RECOGNIZE, and learn what thee actual and irrefutable Truth IS, EXACTLY.

And that Jesus was also born of a barren woman, namely from his Virgin Mothers womb.

And you KNOW this how?

Now, that's what I am talking about when it comes to making sense of this religious idea that there is a God who is not human but this God is the Father of Jesus who is human.

OF COURSE God is NOT a human being.

AND, making sense of the idea that God is the Creator of ALL 'things', including 'you', human beings, is VERY EASY and VERY SIMPLE, as I keep informing you.

And then this idea grows into an even bigger idea that Jesus who is walking on a planet earth is not actually from this planet.

Who has this idea?

In other words, it doesn't make any sense in the sense that knowledge really does inform one that one really does need to come from a womb in order to exist as a human being.

Convoluting 'things', like you are doing here once again, will NOT help you in making sense of ALL-OF-THIS.

[Age]

Well the life of Christ is all bullshit to you so I guess it matters not.

More like it's all ''Dogma''

A fixed belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts.

Personally, I doubt that ''people'' know anything at all of their apparent existence and how existence was/is possible even.

'you', people, may well NOT KNOW, but UNDERSTANDING and KNOWING 'your' existence, as well as Existence, Itself, is ALL rather VERY SIMPLE and EASY, REALLY.

It's not like you were present and got to witness your own personal birth or your own personal death. No person has ever experienced the actual birth of itself. So what here could possibly reincarnate?

The irrefutable answer is ALREADY WELL UNDERSTOOD and KNOWN. BUT, be ause you BELIEVE otherwise this will remain 'a mystery', to 'you'.

How could there be a rebirth of a 'someone' that has never witnessed it's own birth....except in this conception, the word itself, aka knowledge?

There, OBVIOUSLY, could NEVER be a rebirth of an individual 'person'. But NOT because 'you', people, do not witness 'your' OWN births, but instead of because it is just a physical and logical IMPOSSIBILITY.

Once who and what 'you' ARE, EXACTLY, is, ALSO, WELL UNDERSTOOD and KNOWN, then 'this' will ALL make PERFECT 'sense'.

What if the ''immaculate conception'' just means...there was no 'thing' that is born....except in this conception, the word itself?

ANY word, term, or phrase can mean absolutely ANY thing.

Atto, don't you see, that all we can know about anything is what we make-up using the sound of conceptual words, that have absolutely no origin other than silence and void.


Anything that can be claimed to be known about origins of existing as a living being can only be a likened to a dream character or a cartoon character. A character that can only be imagined to be real.


Nothing is real, everything must therefore, be nothing more than just an imagined story, no one wrote, that everyone is reading.

[popeye1945]

Religiosity is anti-intellectual so necessarily is theology, one who has mastered theology has mastered nothing. I think like religion the belief in reincarnation is getting into magical thinking. I personally know of no evidence for either, the one thing they have in common is belief without evidence and this is generally with religion-made sacred ignorance/belief. At the very least religion is non-falsifiable if it is to be included in discussions of philosophy it should be limited to the flights of imagination accorded to metaphysics. Even here with metaphysics, it must occasionally be asked to touch the earth for a grounding in reality. It saddens me that so much time is devoted to the archaic ignorance of simpler times and that it still casts a detrimental shadow inhibiting the progress of humanity and its conditions in the world.

[attofishpi]

Religiosity is anti-intellectual so necessarily is theology, one who has mastered theology has mastered nothing. I think like religion the belief in reincarnation is getting into magical thinking. I personally know of no evidence for either, the one thing they have in common is belief without evidence and this is generally with religion-made sacred ignorance/belief. At the very least religion is non-falsifiable if it is to be included in discussions of philosophy it should be limited to the flights of imagination accorded to metaphysics. Even here with metaphysics, it must occasionally be asked to touch the earth for a grounding in reality. It saddens me that so much time is devoted to the archaic ignorance of simpler times and that it still casts a detrimental shadow inhibiting the progress of humanity and its conditions in the world.

All very well Poppy, apart from as an atheist, that you are wrong.

Philosophy is love of wisdom. What is love of wisdom to an atheist? True philosophy is theist based.

[Iwannaplato]

I just don't think you can accurately infer things about a person based on what they post online. People make totally wrong assumptions about me all the time, so I know from my own experience.

So, when she does this with me as an individual and us in general, she would be doing something you consider inaccurate?

I think some of her assertions have epistemological problems that seem not to matter to you.

No, I don't suppose epistemological problems do bother me much.

OK, well, from what I quoted first in this post, it seemed like you were bothered by the epistemological problems of me inferring things about her. I was bothered by her doing this in relation to me and after a bit responded in kind. But it's good to know you don't have a problem with either one of us doing this, rather than just one of us (me).

[Iwannaplato]

Why would he be upset about the inevitable part of being alive?

I think the answer regarding Jesus in any case was because he was human.

It is likely that the PAIN threshold that God allowed to occur had gone too far...that and the factor relating later to others, and their DOUBT of God when running the gauntlet of God's TESTS.

I certainly wasn't being critical of Jesus here. My point was that dontaskme had said

A fixed belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts.

about Christianity.

. I think that is false generalization. And as I said, while some Christians may have this attitude, I think many do not. And I used the crucifixion scenario as one reason why I don't believe this is a fair summation.

dontaskme presents her version of spirituality and he model of reality with great certainty here. In her presentations of the way things are she puts forward ideas of various phenomena and of humans, including us. I think this is problematic and this was one point where her models fall short. Perhaps there's an axe to grind distorting the model.

Even the most central, spiritual figure of Christianity shows doubt in the most central document of the religion.

[Age]

Religiosity is anti-intellectual so necessarily is theology, one who has mastered theology has mastered nothing. I think like religion the belief in reincarnation is getting into magical thinking.

Is what 'you' think absolutely true?

If 'Yes', then okay.

But if 'No', then 'you' could be completely wrong here.

I personally know of no evidence for either, the one thing they have in common is belief without evidence

This is like saying and claiming, I personally know of no evidence for two things, and the one thing those two things have in common is SOME people have beliefs in those two things. Which, is really just saying and claiming NOTHING, AT ALL.

and this is generally with religion-made sacred ignorance/belief. At the very least religion is non-falsifiable if it is to be included in discussions of philosophy it should be limited to the flights of imagination accorded to metaphysics.

'Religion', itself, may well be unfalsifiable, but what 'you', human beings, choose to BELIEVE in are falsifiable. Just like the things that 'you', "popeye1945", choose to BELIEVE in are falsifiable, of which some can be falsified. But those things are still what you 'religiously' choose to BELIEVE, and maintain a BELIEF IN. Some of them you have absolutely NO proof NOR even evidence for. So, without proof NOR evidence all you really have is just some religious FAITH in them.

Even here with metaphysics, it must occasionally be asked to touch the earth for a grounding in reality. It saddens me that so much time is devoted to the archaic ignorance of simpler times and that it still casts a detrimental shadow inhibiting the progress of humanity and its conditions in the world.

The inhibiting factors of 'you', human beings, which you are doing and displaying here by the way, is what stops and prevents 'you', human beings, from progressing forwards.