Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:51 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 2:41 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:41 pm
Of course I recognize that one can choose to align oneself with Christian ethical ideas and admonitions while being, perhaps, incapable or doubtful of all the wildest mystic and magic beliefs of traditional or historical Christian faith. The mystical and the magical drop away as unnecessary and then one is left in an immediate present having to make reasoned choices.
I agree. You seem to see a problem about Christianity, but your latest claim is not problematic. I don't understand what else there is for you to say.
I'd put it this way: I have been forced to see a very significant problem about *Christian belief* (and about belief and belief-systems generally) as a result of my association and interactions with Immanuel Can. I regret that this seems like a personal issue -- it certainly is not. Immanuel Can demonstrates to me what can happen, and possibly what will inevitably happen, when a relatively strong mind capable of reasoned analysis gets *possessed* by religious fanaticism. Frankly, I am unsure even how to define this fanaticism. I regard it (as I have said) as a *disease of the mind*. But what really is its origin? Or what really is its function? These are questions that require more study and commentary.
Presently, I am interested in a contemporary notions:
hasbara (הַסְבָּרָה). The word means explanation or explaining on the surface but really it indicates explaining and molding through what we call *spin*. It is a Machiavellian term I'd suppose and essentially indicates 'deceit' and 'deceitfulness' as a public-relations strategy.
If it is not completely clear I see American Evangelical Christianity as having become, perhaps having allowed itself to become, a tool of geo-political machinations. And since (as I regularly say) my interest is in the present and in contemporary events, the relevance of the topic of Christianity only has importance to the degree that we talk about our own reality. If I must explain some part of my present emphasis developed as a result of something Immanuel Can said to me a few years back. I will paraphrase: "We non-denominational Christians do more for Israel than most others" (something to this effect). I regard Israel and Israeli power as having deeply penetrated into the very halls of US power. This is not debatable from my perspective. Thus the idea of
hasbara takes on tremendous significance.
What interests me -- let's say as a philosophical and cultural issue, and there is a personal element also -- is how the Christian religious perspective (hope, belief, prophecy) which is based on Biblical tropes, is manifested or allowed to become iterated and replicated by the believer. The Machiavellian way to see this would be to say that elites know the truth about the raw use of power which excludes *morality* and *ethics* in the larger pursuit of power-objectives. While simultaneously the *believer* is convinced through
hasbara-arguments (spin) that what he is asked to advocate and support is, somehow, part of *God's plan*.
So it seems to me highly relevant, and also genuinely interesting, to examine the argument-structure of Immanuel Can who is, I might say, a chemically-pure Evangelical Christian
Zionist. I include the Zionist aspect because it is thoroughly central to Evangelical Christian discourse (though Immanuel states that he has no relationship to it).
How far can we go, how far do we go, in self-deception about real power issues? I see this as a very deep problem. At the same time, or in any case this is part of my interest and consideration, Evangelical Christianity has a strong focus on that which has always been central to Christian conversion which was known as *taking the Christian cure*. The neophyte starts as a compromised victim of his own concupiscence which operates on many different levels. He comes into the Christian circle and submits himself to God's healing power. "To get right with God" is a phrase often used. Could it be said that I have an argument against that? No, in fact I recognize it as valid. But I am unable to un-see that American Evangelical Christianity has -- how can I put it fairly? -- been infiltrated by hidden interests.
And of course this is a complex and a fraught topic for a host of reasons.
Here is a clear statement from the
Evangelical perspective:
One of the first promises in the Bible is given to Abram, whom God appointed to be a blessing to the whole earth. Not only did God tell this patriarch that he would receive a good land and have many children, but He also promised Abram, “I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse” (Gen. 12:1–3). That’s an incredible promise, isn’t it? God will favor those who favor Abram and set Himself against those who oppose Abram.
Like me, you probably want God’s blessing and favor on your life. This verse gives us the secret to obtaining that blessing. We just need to bless Abram. Abram, later renamed Abraham, died some four thousand years ago. So, one might think that it is no longer possible to bless him. That is not the case. The promise to Abraham was passed down through his son Isaac to his grandson Jacob (Gen. 27:1–29). Jacob, of course, was renamed Israel, his sons being the founding fathers of the tribes of Israel. So, the promise of Abraham passed on to Israel as well (Num. 24:1–9).
So, God is going to bless those who bless Abraham, which means He is going to bless those who bless Israel. And this promise was never withdrawn. It must come to pass, which means it is still in force today. But does the Israel of God exist today?
Now if you were to ask me *Why are you interested in these things? What possible relevance does this have to your own life?" it would require lots more explanation.
I do not have a very favorable opinion of a significant
aspect of Judaism either because I see Judaism, like Evangelical Christianity, as having been compromised. It is a complex topic but Israel has in a significant way replaced an abstract 'god' and the Holocaust has also replaced or supplanted the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth on the cross for most Jews.
In contemporary society now and today -- and here I refer to more suppressed areas and channels -- the Jewish Question is being talked about. I know about this because I resolved to study it. A large part of the present geo-political struggles, and certainly the American national struggle, has a sort of invisible backdrop of power and power-games -- and this has to do with Israeli machination (I do not know how to mention this except in a terse way). The entire topic is off-limits of course in all conventional media. And this is why I refer to
hasbara.
I do recognize that these are issues that no one without a Jewish or Israeli connection has interest in (hence no or little interest here and, also, no conversation on contemporary issues) but since you invited me to share my thoughts, well, there you have it.
Here is an ironic video that was published in Ha'aretz:
Hasbara
I regard Rabbi Manis Friedman as
a master of hasbara but at the same time he reveals the true underpinning to the Israel issue (which is also expressed by a general Straussian Machiavellian analysis). I doubt that many people here are much interested in these things but I admit that they fascinate me.
I see. That seems self-contradictory but I guess it's ok.
Amazing. It must be all the counter-evidence to two of the Bible's key stories (creation and flood) that has you convinced? What aspects of that monster Yahweh have you convinced he's the true God? Is it fear that you'll burn in hell for not showering him with praise or do you get warm, fuzzy feelings from divinely inspired genocide?