Free will — an investigation

[Pattern-chaser]

Over the years, we have all seen many topics concerning free will. But one thing I have never seen — a clarification of what we mean by the concept of free will. That's what this topic is.

But this is not a definition-freak's topic, that demands a full, precise, and detailed definition, down to the last electron, before further discussion is permitted. Nothing so authoritarian!

This topic seeks to clarify free will. I have two questions to start with; you may have more to add?

1. What freedom(s) does free will bestow?

2. In contrast, what are the freedoms that free will does not, or cannot, bestow, if any?

In other words, if we do or did have free will, what impact would it have on our real-world lives? What are its effects? And if we don't have free will, what does that mean, in terms of real-world consequences?

[Impenitent]

that which the body/mind is capable/incapable of doing...

-Imp

[Pattern-chaser]

that which the body/mind is capable/incapable of doing...

-Imp

Thanks. To which question(s) do your words respond?

[Impenitent]

either/or

-Imp

[henry quirk]

I am a free will. I am a point of causal & creative power. I begin, end, and bend at least some causal chains.

I am not a meat machine.

1. What freedom(s) does free will bestow?

As a free will: I can begin, end, and bend at least some causal chains. Yesterday doesn't determine my today. I am free to attempt just about any damn thing I set my mind to, for any reason I suss out for myself.

2. In contrast, what are the freedoms that free will does not, or cannot, bestow, if any?

Bein' a free will only means I can try: it doesn't guarantee success or that my choices are wise or right.

(I'm describin' myself as a libertarian agent [libertarian agent causation])

[Pattern-chaser]

1. What freedom(s) does free will bestow?

As a free will: I can begin, end, and bend at least some causal chains.

OK, if we have free will, that seems perfectly reasonable, and useful, to me.

Yesterday doesn't determine my today...

...but yesterday does influence my today, surely? I don't exist in isolation; I have a past; I have memories of things that have happened in that past. Without this 'tail' of history, I begin every day anew, with no discernable path or course previously established. My life becomes a succession of unconnected days, each one independent of all that came before. This doesn't seem to accord with the impressions I have of my real-world life. Have I misunderstood something?

2. In contrast, what are the freedoms that free will does not, or cannot, bestow, if any?

Bein' a free will only means I can try: it doesn't guarantee success or that my choices are wise or right.

This too seems reasonable to me.

[henry quirk]

Have I misunderstood something?

Seems so. As I say, yesterday doesn't determine my today. Of course, yesterday influences and informs my today: but it doesn't determine my today.

[Immanuel Can]

This topic seeks to clarify free will. I have two questions to start with; you may have more to add?

1. What freedom(s) does free will bestow?

The power to make a choice. That is, a "will" not predetermined by prior impersonal forces.

2. In contrast, what are the freedoms that free will does not, or cannot, bestow, if any?

It doesn't "bestow" anything else.

It's not a promise of absolute freedom from influence, constraint or input from material facts. One has to choose either with, or in spite of such things. It's not a promise that whatever anybody wants to be true will become true. It's not a guarantee that you cannot surrender your will, if you so choose. It's not a promise of "happiness" on your own terms, or lack of responsibility, or even freedom from oppressive forces and persons. It most certainly does not ever mean "without consequences"; free will presupposes that you will both choose and face those. Most of all, "free" must not be misrepresented as meaning, "total liberty." No such thing is ever available, nor is any such thing every implied. It only means that within the vicissitudes and circumstances of life, one has say as to what one does.

But it is also, as John Locke so clearly put it, premised on the reality God will hold each person accountable for his or her own choices, and that claiming, "I could not have done otherwise" will never work.

Because of that, free will makes morality possible, and moral accountability certain. So it implies, "Choose wisely."

[Pattern-chaser]

Fair enough.

[Pattern-chaser]

Oops! With appropriate attribution:

Have I misunderstood something?

Seems so. As I say, yesterday doesn't determine my today. Of course, yesterday influences and informs my today: but it doesn't determine my today.

Fair enough.

[henry quirk]

Great Crom on His mountain, have we reached sumthin' approachin' accord before the end of the first page?

In this place: that's an accomplishment.

for everyone!

[Lacewing]

Fun investigation. Here's how it looks to me...

Free will enables us to do anything a creator of our capability can do. We are creators of much of the experience that we have. We choose how to react and respond to other creations. We choose what to believe. We may feed beliefs and create more stories. We may create a reality of which we are a uniquely special star.

We can attempt to draw others in or automatically impose our creations or stories on them. We may claim that much is out of our control or that we're just following commandments because it is a god's will and we are merely a devoted servant. We can create self-fulfilling prophecies to prove ourselves good and right. We can be dangerous, twisted little gods with our free-will creations!

With free will, we can continually explore and expand our awareness and ability. We need not blame or attribute anything to anyone else when explaining what we are. There are influences... but they're like shades of color on a palette that we freely create with.

Without free will, how or why would we do any of these things?

[Belinda]

I am a free will. I am a point of causal & creative power. I begin, end, and bend at least some causal chains.

Which causal chains are those, Henry?

[henry quirk]

I am a free will. I am a point of causal & creative power. I begin, end, and bend at least some causal chains.

Which causal chains are those, Henry?

The ones I'm involved in, or that I involve myself in, and the ones I begin.

[Belinda]

I am a free will. I am a point of causal & creative power. I begin, end, and bend at least some causal chains.

Which causal chains are those, Henry?

The ones I'm involved in, or that I involve myself in, and the ones I begin.

Do you think this applies equally to everybody's causal chains that they are involved in?

Does this apply to the causal chains of other animals and plants, or only men?