Christianity

[Dontaskme]

The I that does not know is the I known.

Ugh.

Who knows? ... IS the one question to all our answers.

You are never the past or the present.

Wisdom reveals that every moment in life renews itself and in between a moment in the mind and in life is moment as well. This signifies that a moment in life and in the mind is eternal.

The eternal Now. The unavoidable void.

Ugh, so scary, help, help me daddy from the void I have become.

[Immanuel Can]

Yes, but I was responding to this:

Being spiritual doesn't require being religious. Being religious doesn't ensure being spiritual.

I don't even know what they mean by that. I'm pretty sure that they don't really, either, because they can't seem to say anything specific.

I also don't see the point in arguing that we can't properly define 'spiritual'.

Sure we can. We just have to avoid circularity when we do.

Your quoting was a bit selective. What I said, in full, was this:

I also don't see the point in arguing that we can't properly define 'spiritual'. Of course we can't.

I should have left that in, and just said, "Of course we can."

...they are general concepts, which appropriately enjoy a general definition.

Great. What's that "general" definition? That's all I'm asking for.

Here's some of what I wrote:

I'm not sure life is that simple. There are lots of reasons why this should be so. Here are a couple of them:

• Some of our most useful concepts are general, and somewhat vague as a result. So the definitions of the words we use to label them are also vague. But we still find the need to discuss these things...

Well, we can't "need to discuss" what we can't understand. That's simply to babble or misunderstand each other.

Vagueness is not a virtue, and not a necessity. Would it not be rather anti-intellectual to suppose we cannot do better in refining our terms, particularly in the case of terms we value so much we want to label ourselves with them?

[*] If our language was composed solely of words that each had one clear and unambiguous meaning, we would require huge vocabularies, maybe exceeding a million words. Even assuming we could create such a language, I don't think many humans could learn or retain such a huge vocabulary.

We do have such a language. It's called "English." Between its Anglo-Saxon, Latinate, Greek, French, Germanic, Chinese, Indian and other roots and cognates, it has well over a million terms in it. But most people know around 40,000, of which they commonly use about half. Even so, the proliferation of terms within the English lexicon is unparalleled and providing synonyms and other definitional terms. If any language can define "spiritual," the English language is the best bet. If it cannot do the job, then perhaps the term is merely ultimately incoherent.

But I think it's nowhere near so difficult as you seem to want to make it. It's not hard to ask a person, in English, what "other terms" he/she thinks of when he/she uses a particular word. There are lots of options to draw on.

[Lacewing]

Many seem to see it as a sort of spirit of nature... It's more about being in tune with it than worshipping it.

Yes.

I've also heard people talk about frequencies of the universe, which one needs to resonate with. It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of people seem to find meaning in it.

Yes, I do that. It's just another way of pointing to the concept that energy moves throughout all things and can inform and transform.
Even science is proving connectivity at quantum levels. Using words like frequency and channel are meant to point to an ability to shift between varied patterns, energies, and potentials.

The spiritual part of it for me has to do with better alignment with a natural flow that we're already part of... but which we may lose touch with as a result of human creations and distractions. (Why would there be a creative god somehow separate from us? Wouldn't such creative energy flow throughout and be represented by/through all things?) The natural flow has demonstrated to be great and powerful. In my own experience, even small shifts in my alignment to attune within that flow (by being aware, open, appreciative, loving, and grateful of life) has produced noticeable and superior results beyond my thoughts/efforts. Consistently and repeatedly! It's like getting out of the way of nature. (As opposed to religious teachings of ruling over nature.)

Our interference in life/nature's amazing alignment creates limitations and roadblocks. This is what I have seen. It is an ongoing human practice to cooperatively dance with alignment and will.

[Immanuel Can]

The I that does not know is the I known.

Ugh.

Ugh, so scary...

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

[Lacewing]

Yes, but I was responding to this:

Being spiritual doesn't require being religious. Being religious doesn't ensure being spiritual.

I don't even know what they mean by that.

You don't want to know. It is in conflict with your beliefs. I've already responded further about it.

I'm pretty sure that they don't really, either, because they can't seem to say anything specific.

Says the man who believes in a god and who continually makes up all kinds of dishonest and distorted interpretations for that and everything else.

[Lacewing]

The I that does not know is the I known.

Ugh.

Ugh, so scary...

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

There is value there. It's just not your language, I.C. Your own language often sounds utterly hollow and boring. We each attune to different things.

[Harbal]

But then, why say anything about it at all? It's clear they want you to take away some vaguely positive impression about them. We just can't, at present, tell what it is.

But what would life be without its little mysteries?

[Dontaskme]

The I that does not know is the I known.

Ugh.

Ugh, so scary...

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

Daddy bore a son to be born on earth just to die and then be born again and again and again....takes a bore to bore.

So boring this bore boring business, boring away all day but going nowhere but here. This gaping hole that cannot be filled since it's perfectly and absolutely whole. And that which is whole cannot be made unwhole by boring holes in it.

Don't be a cheese, be a fruit and nut cake.

[Dontaskme]

The I that does not know is the I known.

Ugh.

Ugh, so scary...

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

Yes, all stories get boring, like yesterdays old newspaper only fit for wiping your arse. Tis only the here and now, that is original fresh and alive, whereas, the believe in a 2000+ year old jewish zombie rising from the dead is on another level of very hollow and boring, I agree.

[Belinda]

Ugh, so scary...

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

There is value there. It's just not your language, I.C. Your own language often sounds utterly hollow and boring. We each attune to different things.

Immanuel is extremely explicit. I don't always agree with him but I do understand his terminology.

[Belinda]

Ugh, so scary...

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

Yes, all stories get boring, like yesterdays old newspaper only fit for wiping your arse. Tis only the here and now, that is original fresh and alive, whereas, the believe in a 2000+ year old jewish zombie rising from the dead is on another level of very hollow and boring, I agree.

I wish, DAM, you and I had been better taught Christian doctrine. In my experience very few preachers are worth listening to even when they are intelligible. However one does hear good talks by Christians. I heard one today on TV; the archbishop who spoke at the service in St Anne's Cathedral in Belfast on the occasion of the death of Queen Elizabeth II. Don't give up!
There's a connection between non- dualism and Christianity.

[Lacewing]

No. Just so utterly, utterly hollow...and boring.

There is value there. It's just not your language, I.C. Your own language often sounds utterly hollow and boring. We each attune to different things.

Immanuel is extremely explicit. I don't always agree with him but I do understand his terminology.

Well, deceptiveness can be a silver-tongued devil. I am not impressed by the pomp. It does not hide that the content and responses are full of evasive distortions. There is more truth reflected in DAM's word salads. I wish she would serve it up more clearly, but evidently she is most served by her method. Just as I.C. is served by his, and I am served by mine.

[Harry Baird]

Apropos of absolutely nothing, I just happened to have stumbled upon this song, which is so powerful in every sense that I have been listening to it on repeat for hours:

Anouk - Nobody's Wife

But it's the darndest thing. When I hear the lyrics "spread my wings", I can't help but think to myself... wings... wing... wingdings... I've heard something like that before.

[Belinda]

There is value there. It's just not your language, I.C. Your own language often sounds utterly hollow and boring. We each attune to different things.

Immanuel is extremely explicit. I don't always agree with him but I do understand his terminology.

Well, deceptiveness can be a silver-tongued devil. I am not impressed by the pomp. It does not hide that the content and responses are full of evasive distortions. There is more truth reflected in DAM's word salads. I wish she would serve it up more clearly, but evidently she is most served by her method. Just as I.C. is served by his, and I am served by mine.

I too like that people are all different, differ in their approaches to life and belief. If it were not so we could not learn from one another and would be like billiard balls pushmepullyou inanimates. Note that some political regimes seek to make every individual as like each other as possible, and seek to do so sometimes by enormous cruelties.

[bobmax]

I too like that people are all different, differ in their approaches to life and belief. If it were not so we could not learn from one another and would be like billiard balls pushmepullyou inanimates.

Only if there is good faith on both sides.
If there is bad faith even on one side, it is just a waste of time.