Schrodinger's Cat Thought Experiment

[Dontaskme]

Never mind Age …I don’t really care about your tailspin way of speaking, I knew I shouldn’t have replied to you.


All I care about is Roy’s voice right now, it’s the only voice I truly resonate with.

Bye

[Age]

Never mind Age …I don’t really care about your tailspin way of speaking, I knew I shouldn’t have replied to you.

You say and write:

"The knowing that is claimed knowing, namely the named one…knows nothing….because the claimed knower is known, but not by the claimed knower…but by the unclaimed knowing of every concept known."

To which I attempt to CORRECT, for 'you', yet it is 'me' who supposedly has "the tailspin way of speaking".

All I care about is Roy’s voice right now, it’s the only voice I truly resonate with.

Bye

Okay, but just like the weather, who and what you currently resonate with 'now' will change, and very soon I will add.

[Dontaskme]

Never mind Age …I don’t really care about your tailspin way of speaking, I knew I shouldn’t have replied to you.

You say and write:

"The knowing that is claimed knowing, namely the named one…knows nothing….because the claimed knower is known, but not by the claimed knower…but by the unclaimed knowing of every concept known."

To which I attempt to CORRECT, for 'you', yet it is 'me' who supposedly has "the tailspin way of speaking".

All I care about is Roy’s voice right now, it’s the only voice I truly resonate with.

Bye

Okay, but just like the weather, who and what you currently resonate with 'now' will change, and very soon I will add.

You do not know me so stop assuming shit about me. Stfu

Roy is my boy…that’s all I have to say..

I’m done with your stupid games. You do my head in.

[CHNOPS]

Just answer this question:

¿In that TRASNCENDENCE of the voice in your head, you still seeing colors and hearing sounds?

Yes or not.

[Age]

Just answer this question:

¿In that TRASNCENDENCE of the voice in your head, you still seeing colors and hearing sounds?

Yes or not.

Without the 'thinking', the 'voice in a head' phenomenon, the body is obviously still experiencing through not just those two senses of seeing and hearing but through all five senses, that is; of course, if all five of them are working at the time.

Since the time senses start working, they are continually sensing (the 'world' around them), and transferring 'information' to the 'data base', or the brain, which, through language, that 'input', or 'incoming sensory information', becomes 'thought', which in turn can become 'knowledge', which can then be expressed to other human bodies, and brains. The outpouring of true, right, accurate, and correct 'thought', is Right 'knowledge', while the rest is just Wrong 'knowledge'.

The brain, by the way, works exactly like a computer does. That is; the human brain can only 'put out' what has been 'put into' 'it'.

The Mind, however, is another completely different story.

But to answer your question here directly, in TRANSCENDENCE of the voice in your head, YES, the body is still seeing what are referred to and known as 'colors', still hearing what are referred to and known as 'sounds', still smelling what are referred to and known as 'smells', still tasting what are referred to and known as 'tastes', and still feeling what are referred to and known as 'objects'. But these five 'things' known as 'colors', 'sounds', 'smells', 'tastes', and 'objects', as some people like to claim and argue exist only in 'thought', or 'mental construct/concept', only. But, obviously they do exist in some form or another, as 'they' have been able to form 'conceptual thinking' around, or about, 'them'. And, as there is obviously ONE 'thing' being AWARE of 'them', through 'sensory experiences', those 'conceptual known things' are still being seen, heard, smelt, felt, and tasted.

[Dontaskme]

To which I attempt to CORRECT, for 'you', yet it is 'me' who supposedly has "the tailspin way of speaking".

Age, you are simply too convoluted and extremely twisty for my liking. Talking to you is torture to be honest, nothing to do with you as a personality or anything, it's just that I'm just not on the same mental realm as you, and simply have no desire to be, ok.

I'm with Roy now.

And here's the thing Age...Only I (DAM ) decides what is correct and what is not correct when it comes to matters within my own mental realm of thoughts. Only I get to make that decision as to whether I ( DAM ) is correct, or have made an error.

When I realise I have been wrong about something, then it will be me, Dam, who will correct my judgement, my error, and no one else.

Philosophy for me is about resonating with other peoples ideas ..and then adjusting our own mental models accordingly if there is any new data coming through to us that we had not thought about before often giving new life to old worn out habitual ways of looking at things...Roy's ideas have revealed new horizons, and sent them my way, many new ways of looking at things, so to speak, he wows me....but you haven't, and don't..ok?

No one gets to make my decision's as to whether I have been correct or incorrect for me...that's my job, and there is one thing I never do here, and that is to shy away from the idea I might have been wrong about something. Yes, I will always admit with complete humble honesty that I have got something wrong, but that's up to ME to correct ..not you... Are we clear on that?

Anyway, I'm done with your need to extract models of the truth from out of other people, just to see if it matches with your own model. And that's the last word you will hear from me on this matter...until I decide we meet again.

[Harbal]

I'm with Roy now.

Yes, I think you might have already mentioned that.

[Iwannaplato]

I mean, Harbal keeps it simple. Kudos.
But I find the details fascinating also.

What struck me, after the obvious, was the constant...
'the fact I can even navigate'
'I understand'
'I know'
'I understand'
'I knew what was going to happen'
'I knew what was going to happen'
'I know'
'I understand'
'I understand'

I, I, I, I and....understand.

Yeah, sure elephants in the room, but talk about being stuck up in your head and not noticing the context. Even, self-care. Not the smoking of a hallucinogen, but the posting this in youtube. The heady justifications for this are already forming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp7iP7Ayj0k&t=128s

[Harbal]

So, this video....maybe what will stand out is how teenager on pot having insights silliness of it. Others may be struck by the lack of self-care. Not of smoking this hallucinogen, but of posting it.

It took me a little while to work out what was going on in this bizarre video. My first thought was that Roy had been woken from his afternoon nap on the sofa by a severe bout of cramp in his leg, and was having one of those not knowing whether to laugh or cry episodes. The amount of effing that Roy was doing supported that impression, as it is what I also do when I am woken by cramp in my leg. I can't say how similar my performance is to Roy's in any other respect, as I don't tend to have a video camera trained on my sofa in order to capture such moments. It did, however, gradually become apparent that what was being witnessed here was a man in the midst of having an epiphany, in real time, as it was happening. And that also better explains the presence of the video camera. While one might wonder why someone would set up a camera to document an occurence of cramp, should it happen, it is quite easy to see why they would want to record an instance of pure enlightenment unfolding. And that suggests a considerable amount of foresight on Roy's part.

[Age]

To which I attempt to CORRECT, for 'you', yet it is 'me' who supposedly has "the tailspin way of speaking".

Age, you are simply too convoluted and extremely twisty for my liking.

Have you ever considered how your words come across to "others"?

For example do you really think your words, "The knowing that is claimed knowing, namely the named one…knows nothing….because the claimed knower is known, but not by the claimed knower…but by the unclaimed knowing of every concept known." come across as straightforward and NOT 'too convoluted and extremely twisty', for the liking of "others"?

Do you really believe that those words of yours are understood by absolutely anyone here besides me?

If yes, then who else KNOWS what you are on about here?

For I could PROVE that even you do NOT YET KNOW what you are actually referring to, and meaning here.

Talking to you is torture to be honest, nothing to do with you as a personality or anything, it's just that I'm just not on the same mental realm as you, and simply have no desire to be, ok.

I'm with Roy now.

LOL you write this like I would care.

And here's the thing Age...Only I (DAM ) decides what is correct and what is not correct when it comes to matters within my own mental realm of thoughts.

Okay. But when you 'try to' speak for me and/or "others", then I will remind you that I can CORRECT you.

Only I get to make that decision as to whether I ( DAM ) is correct, or have made an error.

When you 'try to' speak for me and/or "others", then WE decide whether you are correct or not. Is that understood by you?

When I realise I have been wrong about something, then it will be me, Dam, who will correct my judgement, my error, and no one else.

When you 'try to' TELL us what is possible or not, then I will CORRECT you, especially in those cases where I have ALREADY DONE and ACHIEVED what you CLAIM are IMPOSSIBLE. Is this understood by you?

Philosophy for me is about resonating with other peoples ideas ..

'Philosophy' to me is VERY, VERY DIFFERENT.

Also, you only resonate with those who say or claim the SAME things as you do.

and then adjusting our own mental models accordingly

If ANY of 'you' did NOT have a mental model that was contrary or inconsistent with what is ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True and Right, then 'you' would NOT have to adjust ANY of 'your' Wrong mental models.

if there is any new data coming through to us that we had not thought about before often giving new life to old worn out habitual ways of looking at things...Roy's ideas have revealed new horizons, and sent them my way, many new ways of looking at things, so to speak, he wows me....but you haven't, and don't..ok?

Do you FORGET what you write, on purpose or unknowingly?

Also, what EXACTLY is in "roy's" ideas that was new to you?

I have YET to even ask "roy" what is the EXACT view, idea, or message that "roy" was 'trying to' get across here.

To me there are so many inconsistent, contradictory, and self-refuting views and messages in what I have seen "roy" say and claim so far.

No one gets to make my decision's as to whether I have been correct or incorrect for me...

BUT we get to decide when you are Wrong and Incorrect when what you say and claim applies to us. Is this understood by you?

that's my job, and there is one thing I never do here, and that is to shy away from the idea I might have been wrong about something.

What thee actual Truth is regarding this can be clearly seen here.

Yes, I will always admit with complete humble honesty that I have got something wrong, but that's up to ME to correct ..not you... Are we clear on that?

Are we clear that when you say and claim that I cannot do some thing, which I have ALREADY DONE, then you are Wrong and Incorrect?

Anyway, I'm done with your need to extract models of the truth from out of other people, just to see if it matches with your own model.

LOL Here is ANOTHER example of you completely and utterly MISSING the POINT.

And that's the last word you will hear from me on this matter...until I decide we meet again.

Well you could conclude with this sentence with EVERY reply, and they would all be just as meaningless, and condescending.

Do you REALLY BELIEVE that it is 'you', alone, who singularly decides when 'we' meet again?

[Dontaskme]

Okay. But when you 'try to' speak for me and/or "others", then I will remind you that I can CORRECT you.

These conversations always remind me of the pot calling the kettle black..they are just pointless and go nowhere, but round and round in endless circles. I'm right your wrong kind of nonesense.

The point is, in my opinion anyway, is that we can only see what we are meant to see, and only hear what we are meant to hear, and only resonate with what feels right for us...that until we are able to see another way, from another point of view. And only when that time comes and not one second before. To assume someone is incorrect or wrong, is fine, because that's the only way the assumer can be right, if someone else is wrong.

Well, I'm just so over that mental word play where one has to be incorrect to make another correct, I'm so over it.

I'm always speaking from my own direct truth as I have lived and experienced it here where my mind is located, and not from some other source.

I simply present it here on a philosophy forum that is designed to share philosophical ideas.

I in no way expect other readers to believe or assume I am informing them that my model is the correct one. That's up to the reader to decide for themself. I don't care if people like you or any one else see my model as needing correction, because in my mental sphere, my model is correct because I am the one constructing it in the first place, and then I'm simply presenting it as my absolute truth...that's all. I'm not forcing anyone to accept it...they can do what they like with it...even say it's incorrect, which is fine by me, I'll just keep plugging on with my own version, and no one elses opinion matters to me, it's simply water off a ducks back. We all have a tendency to want to do that.

I didn't agree with Roy when I first came to this forum when he talked about the idea of ending suffering on a permanent basis...but as I have delved more and more into his theory, I have had my mind changed, and realised I was wrong, and that Roy was right..and that's how this one here operates...I go soley by what feels right for me, yes, I can have my mind changed about things, I'm never totally fixed by just one idea...I'm always open and flexible.


In my logical way of thinking, you may think you are correcting me, and may even believe that is what you are doing, but in reality, you can no more correct what is already correct in my head here, than you can believe you know what's going on inside my head, that you feel the need to correct it, which you certainly cannot. Only I am inside my head, metaphorically speaking. Only I know what feels right for me here.

Talking to you Age, is like being trapped inside a washing machine going round and round, where the door lock is jammed and there is no hope in hell of me ever getting out.

[Harbal]

There was something else that struck me about the video, and that was Roy's feet. I know there are probably no rules to these matters, but one somehow doesn't expect those rare moments of pure enlightenment to come to one while wearing socks. I cannot help but think that one should be bare footed at such times, or perhaps wearing sandals, but to just be wearing socks on one's feet seems somehow disrespectful to the spirit of the occasion; especially thick, wooly socks. I also found it unfortunate, and somwhat disappointing, that Roy had to experience such a wonderful event wearing corduroy trousers, and dingy brown ones at that.

[Dontaskme]

I mean, Harbal keeps it simple. Kudos.
But I find the details fascinating also.

What struck me, after the obvious, was the constant...
'the fact I can even navigate'
'I understand'
'I know'
'I understand'
'I knew what was going to happen'
'I knew what was going to happen'
'I know'
'I understand'
'I understand'

I, I, I, I and....understand.

Yeah, sure elephants in the room, but talk about being stuck up in your head and not noticing the context. Even, self-care. Not the smoking of a hallucinogen, but the posting this in youtube. The heady justifications for this are already forming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp7iP7Ayj0k&t=128s

This is exactly how it works for some people. It's not for everyone, but for those who recognise this, it's normal. This has happened to me many times...in fact I remember one time I felt like I was going to collapse because I could not catch my breath I was so overwhelmed by an epiphany I was having at the time.

As for the I

There is only I for there is no other I

[MagsJ]

But that's not what he said. He said 'Yes, it does remove all emotion.'
You even quoted that, in your response to me. Why change the words?

..the non-creation of, so being emotion less doesn’t mean being an emotionless person, but that a person’s emotions are under their own control.. hence my change of definition, to best-clarify the ‘state’ that Roy mentioned.

I wasn’t attempting to fool anyone, but to best-describe the ‘state’.

In any case: Have you removed all emotion? If not, then you are talking about something else.

I don't think you are correct about the meaning of cessate or cessation, but that's not so relevant.

I do not 'get triggered' by others, so there is no emotion/s to be removed.. I am emotion less, but not emotionless.

Cessation? ..a stopping of or ceasing of, an ‘action’ ‘thought’ or ‘feeling’.

If one had really, so-called, 'cessated' their emotions a long time ago, then they would now be emotionless.

And, if one really had NO emotions to be removed, then they would NOT be a full 'human being'.

Also, not 'getting triggered by others', does not mean that there are NO emotions. Emotions can continually come and go, and they so do, without there ever being any necessity for 'getting triggered by others' at all.

And of course reducing stress levels, if they are unhealthy, is a good thing.

..ever been stuck in ‘fight or flight’? ..is why.

Nobody cares whether you’re struggling and stressed.. you gotta do that yourself.. control input/output, to lesson the unnecessary burden of others’ whims.

Sure.. but some have more emotions thoughts and feelings to trigger, than others.

An example.. has someone ever expected a/any reaction from you, but you don’t give one? People don’t like that.. why?

Could be an introvert/extrovert thing.

[Dontaskme]

Yeah, sure elephants in the room, but talk about being stuck up in your head and not noticing the context. Even, self-care. Not the smoking of a hallucinogen, but the posting this in youtube. The heady justifications for this are already forming.

Why not try switching the context from ''my /your head'' to just HEAD..or no head, as in not mine, but HERE all the same.

One who claims to know head.. has never actually seen their own head. So who's being heady here? have you noticed that?

I've personally reached non-dual realisation without the use of any hallucinogenic drugs, or any other consciousness altering substances. I know many people have used them, but I haven't, I've never touched any drug in my entire life, wouldn't dream of it, not even weed. I don't even drink or smoke. Nor am I on any meds for any medical condition. I'm really healthy, so I guess I'm just a weird one, I don't know.

I personally came to self-relisation naturally, and very early, probably as young as I was first aware of myself and others. Instantly I knew there was something not quite right with the world....And I had no hand in any of this realisation, it just came to me from nowhere. I have no idea why I am the way I am, and not like other people who are identified with the material realm as real. I had my first real memorable epiphany completely spontaneously out of the blue when I was 7 years old... guess what came rushing through my thoughts?.....it was...oh no,...not this place again..I've been here before, I've awoken from my dark dreamless sleep, and here I am again in the waking world..again...that's what came rushing through my thoughts at 7 years old. I understand this is not unusual.


The problem for me was that I knew I was an eternal being. But I was forced into believing I was a separate self, by the indoctrination that was superimposed upon me, by my particular CULTure that I was born into. And so that was when the belief in personal identity grew and grew and grew so vast, that I completely forgot about my eternal self.


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