Is morality objective or subjective?

[Harbal]

Your life -- just your life -- is it yours?

For the time being, it is, but my ownership will expire eventually.

[henry quirk]

Your life -- just your life -- is it yours?

For the time being, it is, but my ownership will expire eventually.

And is it difficult to see that everyone, anyone, even the slaver, like you, understands his life is his and no other's?

And: yes, we die. And: no, I don't think there's an afterlife.

[FlashDangerpants]

C'mon, H, is your life, liberty, and property yours?

What I think you mean is that these things are mine according to some mutual understanding between myself and other human beings. My right to keep possession of these things would be a human right, not a natural right. I have an entitlement to keep possession of property because the other people in my society have agreed to my right to own it, and the institution of the law has been created to protect that right. If society grants me a right, and someone violates it, I can appeal to the law, but if I think I have a right that hasn't been granted to me by society, to whom do I appeal in that case?

Or ... Henry might have some principle that is actually more fundamental than his self-ownership one. It would have to do the work that the self-ownership principle doesn't do, namely the bit where if I have a right X, then you have the right X and we have the shared duty to respect each other's right X.

Normally that would be the reciprocal principle of fairness that underlies all moral systems other than Henry's, VA's and God's.* . Henry's thing falls apart because he tries to get that sort of principle FROM the ownership one, without quite understanding that he needs it FOR the ownership one.


*in the IC version of God's system anyway. In Jebus' one that IC doesn't like, it's very clear that not doing unto others, and not judging lest one becomes judged and so on become the centrepiece of the second half of that book thing they like.

[attofishpi]

C'mon, H, is your life, liberty, and property yours?

Henry, you have your life, it will never be free, in fact nobody's life is free from responsibility, and as far as property is concerned..try taking that beyond the grave such that you still own it!

What you hope for, is a farce.

[henry quirk]

What you hope for, is a farce.

I don't hope to be: I know I, like you, am a free man with an inalienable natural right to my life, liberty, and property.

Doesn't seem farcical to me: just true.

[promethean75]

Fish is saying you came into this world with nuthin' and yer gonna leave it with nuthin', Henry. Your life belongs to the Father and all that matters is that you're right wit him. All that property and liberty and life don't mean diddly squat.

Now go with God, my good man.

[henry quirk]

Your life belongs to the Father

Nope. It's mine. Not even God in Heaven Above has a claim on me. If He thinks otherwise, then we -- He and me -- gotta a problem.

[promethean75]

You'd pull a damn shotgun on God too, wouldn't ya Henry?

[henry quirk]

You'd pull a damn shotgun on God too, wouldn't ya Henry?

Yep.

[attofishpi]

You'd pull a damn shotgun on God too, wouldn't ya Henry?

Yep.

As a Pantheist, you could do it now, just take aim anywhere

[henry quirk]

You'd pull a damn shotgun on God too, wouldn't ya Henry?

Yep.

As a Pantheist, you could do it now, just take aim anywhere

Since I'm not a pantheist: that would, in my view, be waste of ammo.

[attofishpi]

Yep.

As a Pantheist, you could do it now, just take aim anywhere

Since I'm not a pantheist: that would, in my view, be waste of ammo.

Anyone that shoots Trump is not wasting ammo.

[henry quirk]

As a Pantheist, you could do it now, just take aim anywhere

Since I'm not a pantheist: that would, in my view, be waste of ammo.

Anyone that shoots Trump is not wasting ammo.

Not seein' what that has to do with anything, but: okay.

[attofishpi]

Since I'm not a pantheist: that would, in my view, be waste of ammo.

Anyone that shoots Trump is not wasting ammo.

Not seein' what that has to do with anything, but: okay.

..not even humour?

But yeah, still a waste of ammo when a baseball bat should suffice.

[Sculptor]

As a Pantheist, you could do it now, just take aim anywhere

Since I'm not a pantheist: that would, in my view, be waste of ammo.

Anyone that shoots Trump is not wasting ammo.

Probably the best use for ordinance I can think of.