IS and OUGHT

[Dontaskme]

And yes, if we all just drop our beliefs, then the world will be exactly how it is, not how we would like it to be.

Other than trying to get people to stop hurting each other, I don't see why we need to do anything, or change anything. Reality and illusion can coexist quite happily most of the time. We can rationalise a sunset right down to every partical and photon, but that doesn't prevent us from appreciating how magnificent it looks.

We do not need to do anything to change what we are naturally.

We can only embrace our animal nature and not try to be someone we are not, just through fear of not being liked for being exactly who we are as nature dictates.

We can know the beauty just as well as the raw ugliness of nature...and we ought to respect it exactly for what is it ...and what it is does not give a crap about us personally...we only give a crap about ourselves because we are the ones who have invented benevolence, that's our nature, just one part of the whole system, and it's how animals learnt to become civilised. But even that civilised system will eventually fall on it's own sword in the need to defend itself.

[Harbal]

We can know the beauty just as well as the raw ugliness of nature...and we ought to respect it exactly for what is it ...and what it is does not give a crap about us personally...we only give a crap about ourselves because we are the ones who have invented benevolence, that's our nature, just one part of the whole system, and it's how animals learnt to become civilised. But even that civilised system will eventually fall on it's own sword in the need to defend itself.

What a little ray of sunshine you are.

[Dontaskme]

We can know the beauty just as well as the raw ugliness of nature...and we ought to respect it exactly for what is it ...and what it is does not give a crap about us personally...we only give a crap about ourselves because we are the ones who have invented benevolence, that's our nature, just one part of the whole system, and it's how animals learnt to become civilised. But even that civilised system will eventually fall on it's own sword in the need to defend itself.

What a little ray of sunshine you are.

I'm HOT too.

Every one want's a piece of my metaphorical arse. . the sun wanting to shine on itself...parasiting off of itself...an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

Pretty gross, but then it's also deaf dumb and blind to it's gross beauty.

[henry quirk]

But i do NOT expect you to defend "yourself". I KNOW, for a fact, that you can NOT.

Ah, the Soviet inversion: guilty till proven innocent..

So: we done?
just say yes, age

[Walker]

The Religious folks do not seem to be able to accept they are an animal that has a limited life span here on earth...so they invented an immortal self, but that invention was just a BELIEF.....immortality is an illusion.

The Christians try to surpress their animal nature, because it repulses them..it's all about control for them...they are deluded.

Yes, but that in itself is not a reason to condemn them. It is when they tell others what they should believe that condemnation becomes appropriate.

Well, that makes a pair of morons then, doesn't it. Yes, I think so. It takes more than eating, shitting, and fucking to be a human, but that’s about all it takes to be an animal, although animals do say go away with their defense animal noises of fear.

The nature of animals is fear and ignorance. The nature of humans is to rise above that, although when threatened it's the go to response (fear and ignorance) for many humans.

[Age]

Read the article

If you found absolutely ANY thing in what I wrote that you find to be false, wrong, incorrect, inconsistent, unclear, contradictory, or even in conflict, then just bring 'that' to light for us all to look at 'it' and discuss 'it'.

Then, we might find out, for sure, if what I said was false, wrong, et cetera, or whether I have learnt enough already to be able to better explain my views in a way so that they become fully understood.

But if ANY thing in what I have written and said here, which is construed to be wrong in anyway, is NOT highlighted and exposed, then what is perceived to be wrong can neither be corrected, nor cleared up.

Ok. What was extremely interesting in the article was that light loses energy through distance. That the wavelength of light increases over the 'void' of great distance.

Thus, the doppler effect is not key in comprehending what is observed to the extent that of making an assumption that galaxys that are further away are also moving faster away.

I hope that clarifies.

What did you think or BELIEVE you needed to clarify here exactly?

What you said here, and found interesting, was already known, before that article was even written. As can be seen from my words in this forum.

Also, if there was a 'bang', generally known as the 'big bang', and there was inflation and/or expansion, then when looking at galaxies further away, from 'us', then what is seen is them further back in 'time', which means what is being looked at and seen is what was happening closer to the 'big bang'. So, what would be seen and looked at are objects/galaxies moving away, and faster, the further back is looked at. Also, the galaxies are NOT necessarily moving away from 'us', the observer, but rather are moving away from the 'centre' of that 'bang', or expansion.

[Dontaskme]

The Religious folks do not seem to be able to accept they are an animal that has a limited life span here on earth...so they invented an immortal self, but that invention was just a BELIEF.....immortality is an illusion.

The Christians try to surpress their animal nature, because it repulses them..it's all about control for them...they are deluded.

Yes, but that in itself is not a reason to condemn them. It is when they tell others what they should believe that condemnation becomes appropriate.

Well, that makes a pair of morons then, doesn't it. Yes, I think so. It takes more than eating, shitting, and fucking to be a human, but that’s about all it takes to be an animal, although animals do say go away with their defense animal noises of fear.

The nature of animals is fear and ignorance. The nature of humans is to rise above that, although when threatened it's the go to response (fear and ignorance) for many humans.

Those same humans that fear their own self made creator. A creator they made up out of their own image namely ( Frankenstein) who then makes more monster models of itself over and over again, and then gives them a free will already knowing what they will do with that free will. But then just sits back doing fuck all about the ensuing chaos that comes with the consequence of been given this amazing dumb gift of free will. Yeah, that's one hell of a sick sadistic creator, who will then punish you if you disobey your free will with threats of hell. I mean fancy making up the idea you have a creator who does nothing about evil it has created on earth, but rather just loves to get off watching it's own wretched and evil creations mess up their lives.

And so in dread and absolute terror and fear, the human then makes up this other nicer side to their own man-made creator who they now say will save them from their own sick sadistic creation by promising them an eternity in some pink fluffy heaven where they sing and dance with angels and eat candyfloss all day, but only on the proviso they do not fuck up their lives by using their free will to do so.

So yeah, it's the humans, they are the ones who live in fear, they are the only dumb stupid creature to make up just about any cock and bull story they can imagine as a back up tool they use to assuage their pathetic refusal to accept nature, and their aching not-knowing pointless insignificant existence within nature that they have absolutely no control over whatsoever..so they make up some creator that they then believe does have control..but then does fuck all to control what it has created.

And that's why non-interferring animals, are luckier than humans, namely those who do not make up sadistic creators who create more sadistic versions of itself...I mean what sort of a creator would ever think of making a creature that just sits on the toilet all day. Jeeze, couldn't he have come up with something more intelligent than that, Nah, only an idiot would want this shit. There's no rising above the enormous pool of quick-sand in this sinking shit swamp that has been set up for us to die a slow painful and horrible death.....while your creator just looks on and does nothing but laugh it's head off.


.

[Harbal]

Well, that makes a pair of morons then, doesn't it. Yes, I think so. It takes more than eating, shitting, and fucking to be a human, but that’s about all it takes to be an animal, although animals do say go away with their defense animal noises of fear.

The nature of animals is fear and ignorance. The nature of humans is to rise above that, although when threatened it's the go to response (fear and ignorance) for many humans.

The suggestion that humans are just another animal seems to have touched a sensitive nerve with you, Walker. The thought of it obviously distresses you.

[uwot]

All I would add is that there is a certain cerebral weakness that compels the hard of thinking to insist their beliefs amount to knowledge.

I suppose that is what I am saying, or at least that people act upon their beliefs as if they were knowledge. I find it hard to avoid the conclusion that human beings have an innate tendency to invest in belief systems...

I think we both know that what most people are interested in is results. That can be anything from immediate gratification to long term peace of mind and since people's desires and needs are many and varied, what people believe and why they believe it are hopelessly complicated. Clearly many people have an ability to believe things they wish to be true with little or no evidence that it is the case. For example, unless god is guilty of favouritism, and you really have to have a high opinion of yourself to believe that, then the evidence for his existence is the same for everybody. Some people wish or need to believe, some don't.

...and this tendency is present in us in order to facilitate social cohesion. It was probably essential in the past that all the members of a tribe or society believed the same thing, which amounted to having a shared religion.

Religions generally have a pantheon populated with a variety of gods, one or other of which can appeal to the desires and needs of most members of a society. So they are cohesive, precisely because they are inclusive on the one hand, but they are also divisive because they exclude anyone who doesn't accept the overall premise. Christianity caters to special interests by having a patron saint for most of them.

Not least because there can then be an imposed religious authority. This no longer seems to be the case in modern Western societies, and there isn't the same pressure on us to believe in a particulat religious doctrine, yet we still can't abandon our instinctive predisposition towards having religious beliefs. At least some of us don't seem to be able to abandon it, and this has manifested itself in the vast array of weird and wonderful beliefs we come across today.

I'm all for weird and wonderful, it's only when ideas are insisted on, or worse imposed, that they become tedious or dangerous.

[attofishpi]

I'm all for weird and wonderful, it's only when ideas are insisted on, or worse imposed, that they become tedious or dangerous.

Boonyism looks like a half decent religion.

[Immanuel Can]

Proper Christians believe historical Jesus and the Biblical portrayal of Jesus Christ were the same person. I think many modern Christians think The Bible is a like a modern history book.

Is it true that everything about Jesus that is in the Bible was written long after his death?

The Biblical authors were His contemporaries, and those, like Paul, who lived at the time when the events and teachings they recorded could have been instantly verified or gainsaid by many people still alive.

[uwot]

Boonyism looks like a half decent religion.

That's because he was a half decent batsman. Here's what a proper god does after cricket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDyk-FgtKz0 All laud Freddy Flintoff.

[uwot]

Is it true that everything about Jesus that is in the Bible was written long after his death?

Well assuming Jesus was an historical figure then yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel

[attofishpi]

Boonyism looks like a half decent religion.

That's because he was a half decent batsman. Here's what a proper god does after cricket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDyk-FgtKz0 All laud Freddy Flintoff.

lol..that video needs to be turned into an advert for Kumho Sports Tyres.

[Age]

But i do NOT expect you to defend "yourself". I KNOW, for a fact, that you can NOT.

Ah, the Soviet inversion: guilty till proven innocent..

So: we done?
just say yes, age

Why do you use my name in the reply, but do not use it in the quote?

Also, I was just correcting you, and you not even attempting to defend "yourself" is just further evidence that you could NOT defend "yourself" here.

It could also be said that you wanting this 'to be done' is even more and further evidence that you can NOT defend "yourself" here.