Christianity

[Harry Baird]

Or to put it another way to understand Harry you have to understand the Energy Drink. But understanding the Energy Drink also helps to explain Harry.

Ah, but that's insufficient. You have not yet gotten to the bottom of it. There is more to it than that. Remember, my man: first principles. Harry has more than one.

[attofishpi]

I C wrote:

This is what Jesus Himself was referring to, when He said, "You must be born again." That is, what every person needs, in order to become any different from what he or she is, is an actual "dying" to the old person, and a reconstitution of being by the action of God Himself. He needs a total reconstruction, not merely some set of laws and prohibitions to follow while remaining essentially the same person he or she is. And there is no alternative to that, He said: "You must be born again." It's not an optional thing. There are no alternatives. For a person to become other than she is, or he is, she or he must undergo and actual change of nature conducted by the hand of God Himself. And absent undergoing such a change, the whole process will remain as obscure and seemingly-impossible as locating where the wind is blowing from (that's exactly the analogy He used in speaking on that occasion, to Nicodemus, in John 3). It will simply remain a permanent mystery how anybody could ever be other than they are.

But he seems to understand what it means to be "born again." What does it mean to you?

Personally, I don't think Christ was talking metaphorically about the requirement to be reborn. I believe he is talking about reincarnation, unless yourself or IC can provide another Christ quote that would change my mind?

As you know I disagree with I Cs belief in a personal God governing our universe. I believe that the universe is the body of God.

Pantheism?

You do not believe that God is personable to humans? That, it could or would interact with one on a personal level?

That seems to contradict even the concept of Christ performing miracles - since Christ as a man did not perform the miracle, but his personal 'interface' to God permitted it.

[Sculptor]

In the meantime let's all feast our greedy eyes on these babies!

Diabetes in a can.

[Nick_A]

I C wrote:

This is what Jesus Himself was referring to, when He said, "You must be born again." That is, what every person needs, in order to become any different from what he or she is, is an actual "dying" to the old person, and a reconstitution of being by the action of God Himself. He needs a total reconstruction, not merely some set of laws and prohibitions to follow while remaining essentially the same person he or she is. And there is no alternative to that, He said: "You must be born again." It's not an optional thing. There are no alternatives. For a person to become other than she is, or he is, she or he must undergo and actual change of nature conducted by the hand of God Himself. And absent undergoing such a change, the whole process will remain as obscure and seemingly-impossible as locating where the wind is blowing from (that's exactly the analogy He used in speaking on that occasion, to Nicodemus, in John 3). It will simply remain a permanent mystery how anybody could ever be other than they are.

But he seems to understand what it means to be "born again." What does it mean to you?

Personally, I don't think Christ was talking metaphorically about the requirement to be reborn. I believe he is talking about reincarnation, unless yourself or IC can provide another Christ quote that would change my mind?

As you know I disagree with I Cs belief in a personal God governing our universe. I believe that the universe is the body of God.

Pantheism?

No, I'm not referring to pantheism. God is simultaneously 3 and 1. Beyond the limitations of time and space God is unity; the eternal unchanging or NOW. Creation begins with God voluntarily devolving into 3 or its elemental forces; mind which includes everything in potential, body, the actualization of all potentials, and the Spirit which reconciles mind and body. Man and all life are a necessity in the grand machine we know as the body of God

You do not believe that God is personable to humans? That, it could or would interact with one on a personal level?

That seems to contradict even the concept of Christ performing miracles - since Christ as a man did not perform the miracle, but his personal 'interface' to God permitted it.

What is a miracle? It is the phenomenon normal for a higher level of realty either mechanically or consciously manifesting at a lower level of reality. To us, limited to one level of reality, it seems miraculous. The virgin birth seems absurd until a person opens to intellectually experience levels of reality.

[attofishpi]

I C wrote:



But he seems to understand what it means to be "born again." What does it mean to you?

Personally, I don't think Christ was talking metaphorically about the requirement to be reborn. I believe he is talking about reincarnation, unless yourself or IC can provide another Christ quote that would change my mind?

As you know I disagree with I Cs belief in a personal God governing our universe. I believe that the universe is the body of God.

Pantheism?

No, I'm not referring to pantheism. God is simultaneously 3 and 1. Beyond the limitations of time and space God is unity; the eternal unchanging or NOW. Creation begins with God voluntarily devolving into 3 or its elemental forces; mind which includes everything in potential, body, the actualization of all potentials, and the Spirit which reconciles mind and body. Man and all life are a necessity in the grand machine we know as the body of God

You do not believe that God is personable to humans? That, it could or would interact with one on a personal level?

That seems to contradict even the concept of Christ performing miracles - since Christ as a man did not perform the miracle, but his personal 'interface' to God permitted it.

What is a miracle?

Yes, personally I don't like the term.

It is the phenomenon normal for a higher level of realty either mechanically or consciously manifesting at a lower level of reality. To us, limited to one level of reality, it seems miraculous.

Not big on higher and lower "levels", just doesn't compute.

The virgin birth seems absurd until a person opens to intellectually experience levels of reality.

Doesn't seem absurd when one considers Pantheism and sub-atomic reality.

So.

Do you believe in Pantheism, as a Christian or not?

[Nick_A]

Personally, I don't think Christ was talking metaphorically about the requirement to be reborn. I believe he is talking about reincarnation, unless yourself or IC can provide another Christ quote that would change my mind?




Pantheism?

No, I'm not referring to pantheism. God is simultaneously 3 and 1. Beyond the limitations of time and space God is unity; the eternal unchanging or NOW. Creation begins with God voluntarily devolving into 3 or its elemental forces; mind which includes everything in potential, body, the actualization of all potentials, and the Spirit which reconciles mind and body. Man and all life are a necessity in the grand machine we know as the body of God

You do not believe that God is personable to humans? That, it could or would interact with one on a personal level?

That seems to contradict even the concept of Christ performing miracles - since Christ as a man did not perform the miracle, but his personal 'interface' to God permitted it.

What is a miracle?

Yes, personally I don't like the term.

It is the phenomenon normal for a higher level of realty either mechanically or consciously manifesting at a lower level of reality. To us, limited to one level of reality, it seems miraculous.

Not big on higher and lower "levels", just doesn't compute.

The virgin birth seems absurd until a person opens to intellectually experience levels of reality.

Doesn't seem absurd when one considers Pantheism and sub-atomic reality.

So.

Do you believe in Pantheism, as a Christian or not?

No, I don't believe in pantheism. I'm much closer to panentheism. "“Panentheism” is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, derived from the Greek 'theos' meaning God. Panentheism considers God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world.

John 14:20. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

[attofishpi]

What is a miracle?

Yes, personally I don't like the term.

It is the phenomenon normal for a higher level of realty either mechanically or consciously manifesting at a lower level of reality. To us, limited to one level of reality, it seems miraculous.

Not big on higher and lower "levels", just doesn't compute.

The virgin birth seems absurd until a person opens to intellectually experience levels of reality.

Doesn't seem absurd when one considers Pantheism and sub-atomic reality.

So.

Do you believe in Pantheism, as a Christian or not?

No, I don't believe in pantheism. I'm much closer to panentheism. "“Panentheism” is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, derived from the Greek 'theos' meaning God. Panentheism considers God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world.

John 14:20. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Well, Panentheism allows for a personable God, but you don't believe in such a concept?

[Harbal]

What is a miracle?

I would say it is an event that causes a false perception in those who witness it. A "miracle" is usually a deliberate deception, with the deceived being the willing victims of the fraud.

[Nick_A]

Yes, personally I don't like the term.



Not big on higher and lower "levels", just doesn't compute.




Doesn't seem absurd when one considers Pantheism and sub-atomic reality.

So.

Do you believe in Pantheism, as a Christian or not?

No, I don't believe in pantheism. I'm much closer to panentheism. "“Panentheism” is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, derived from the Greek 'theos' meaning God. Panentheism considers God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world.

John 14:20. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Well, Panentheism allows for a personable God, but you don't believe in such a concept?

I remember reading a nice story about this question. A student at a seminary school was questioned by the bishop to explain why he didn't believe God can do everything. The student simply said God can't beat the ace of trumps with the deuce.

The universe is an integrated whole governed by laws To change one things requires changing everything. For God to stop a hurricane it would change everything. Change requires conscious knowledge of universal laws which we don't have.

[attofishpi]

No, I don't believe in pantheism. I'm much closer to panentheism. "“Panentheism” is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, derived from the Greek 'theos' meaning God. Panentheism considers God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world.

Well, Panentheism allows for a personable God, but you don't believe in such a concept?

I remember reading a nice story about this question. A student at a seminary school was questioned by the bishop to explain why he didn't believe God can do everything. The student simply said God can't beat the ace of trumps with the deuce.

The universe is an integrated whole governed by laws To change one things requires changing everything. For God to stop a hurricane it would change everything. Change requires conscious knowledge of universal laws which we don't have.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are stating. Are you stating that God is not omnipotent to our reality?

[Nick_A]

Well, Panentheism allows for a personable God, but you don't believe in such a concept?

I remember reading a nice story about this question. A student at a seminary school was questioned by the bishop to explain why he didn't believe God can do everything. The student simply said God can't beat the ace of trumps with the deuce.

The universe is an integrated whole governed by laws To change one things requires changing everything. For God to stop a hurricane it would change everything. Change requires conscious knowledge of universal laws which we don't have.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are stating. Are you stating that God is not omnipotent to our reality?

Yes. God as the eternal unchanging or NOW cannot change the machine or its body. To do so ruins the purpose of the body. That is what the seminary student was pointing out. For the deuce to beat the ace destroys the purpose of the game. For the eternal unchanging to interfere with the forever changing universe within it, destroys its purpose.

That is the purpose of the Christ: to bring change for the quality of the being of Man for those open to it.

[attofishpi]

I remember reading a nice story about this question. A student at a seminary school was questioned by the bishop to explain why he didn't believe God can do everything. The student simply said God can't beat the ace of trumps with the deuce.

The universe is an integrated whole governed by laws To change one things requires changing everything. For God to stop a hurricane it would change everything. Change requires conscious knowledge of universal laws which we don't have.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are stating. Are you stating that God is not omnipotent to our reality?

Yes. God as the eternal unchanging or NOW cannot change the machine or its body. To do so ruins the purpose of the body.

So the body of God is the universe, which God DID change to create the Earth, but now that HE did that, he cannot change anything within the Earth because that would change the purpose of God?

That is the purpose of the Christ: to bring change for the quality of the being of Man for those open to it.

So Christ had water changed into wine - this was something that God did, it changed its body (a very very very small part of it)?

[bobmax]

What is a miracle?

I would say it is an event that causes a false perception in those who witness it. A "miracle" is usually a deliberate deception, with the deceived being the willing victims of the fraud.

Since a miracle is an inexplicable event that can never be explained except as a transcendent phenomenon, the only true miracle is this life itself, where there are no miracles.

[Nick_A]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are stating. Are you stating that God is not omnipotent to our reality?

Yes. God as the eternal unchanging or NOW cannot change the machine or its body. To do so ruins the purpose of the body.

So the body of God is the universe, which God DID change to create the Earth, but now that HE did that, he cannot change anything within the Earth because that would change the purpose of God?

God did create the great machine and its levels of reality including the earth. Genesis 2 uses the term LORD God. Is there a difference between God and LORD God?

That is the purpose of the Christ: to bring change for the quality of the being of Man for those open to it.

So Christ had water changed into wine - this was something that God did, it changed its body (a very very very small part of it)?

Biblical language uses three words to describe qualities of truth. Stone refers to truth effecting the outer man like the stone tablets. Living water describes the quality of truth which can touch the inner man like sacred scripture. However a person who has experienced water can give its quality to another. This is called changing water into wine.

[Nick_A]

What is a miracle?

I would say it is an event that causes a false perception in those who witness it. A "miracle" is usually a deliberate deception, with the deceived being the willing victims of the fraud.

Since a miracle is an inexplicable event that can never be explained except as a transcendent phenomenon, the only true miracle is this life itself, where there are no miracles.

Is a baby a miracle? What is this life force producing sperm and eggs, yang and yin, in human beings. It arises from the earth some would call a miracle. Being born again or born from above is similar except that the life force descends from above rather than arising from below. Can the miracle of life be understood or must it remain a miracle?