compatibilism

[Dontaskme]

Don't you ever feel compassion for this painful world?

Sure I do..and at the same time I am embarrassed to be apart of a painful world that I did not ask to be born into in the first place. I sure as heck would not have chose to come here had I have known before hand, just how awfully sick it is.

But if you have been taken by this all-encompassing compassion, even just once, have you not felt that you, really you, are at the origin of all things?

What other proof do you want more certain than this compassion of yours, which is the highest form of love possible?

This makes no sense to me. Why should I care about what I have no control over, or even the control to abort myself in the womb, save having to participate in the origin of all things that I have somehow created??...Hmm, that sounds like a typical new-age spiritual thing to say, which is just trashy junk talking in my opinion.

I've been down that spiritual path, it was inviting and seductive, until I woke-up and realised it was all just a huge cover-up of something that humans were in complete denial of, which was the real raw nature of existence. I soon discovered that spirituality was a method practiced only to assuage the agony and pain of what is a real deep human existential anxiety, the realisation that we are aware we are aware, aware of our birth and our death, and how it was dreaded and feared....so I decided to do a complete 180 / U turn ...out of that emotional mush clap-trap of a mentality, and turned to face the void square in the face without any regret whatsoever. And that was the most positive and enlightened choice to make for me, as if felt 100% the right thing to do.


.

[bobmax]

Don't you ever feel compassion for this painful world?

Sure I do..and at the same time I am embarrassed to be apart of a painful world that I did not ask to be born into in the first place. I sure as heck would not have chose to come here had I have known before hand, just how awfully sick it is.

But if you have been taken by this all-encompassing compassion, even just once, have you not felt that you, really you, are at the origin of all things?

What other proof do you want more certain than this compassion of yours, which is the highest form of love possible?

This makes no sense to me. Why should I care about what I have no control over, or even the control to abort myself in the womb, save having to participate in the origin of all things that I have somehow created??...Hmm, that sounds like a typical new-age spiritual thing to say, which is just trashy junk talking in my opinion.

I've been down that spiritual path, it was inviting and seductive, until I woke-up and realised it was all just a huge cover-up of something that humans were in complete denial of, which was the real raw nature of existence. I soon discovered that spirituality was a method practiced only to assuage the agony and pain of what is a real deep human existential anxiety, the realisation that we are aware we are aware, aware of our birth and our death, and how it was dreaded and feared....so I decided to do a complete 180 / U turn ...out of that emotional mush clap-trap of a mentality, and turned to face the void square in the face without any regret whatsoever. And that was the most positive and enlightened choice to make for me, as if felt 100% the right thing to do.

Where does this compassion of yours come from?

You have come a long way, and now that you are missing only one last step, you have stopped.

You would like to go back, but you can't do it anymore.
You are in no man's land.

Go on! One more last step.

[Dontaskme]

Where does this compassion of yours come from?

You have come a long way, and now that you are missing only one last step, you have stopped.

You would like to go back, but you can't do it anymore.
You are in no man's land.

Go on! One more last step.

If what you have suggested here is true.....''have you not felt that you, really you, are at the origin of all things?''


Then my compassion has come from the realisation that I have completely fucked up by creating my reality.

And out of that compassion, my duty is to delete it and never allow it to happen ever again.

[bobmax]

Where does this compassion of yours come from?

You have come a long way, and now that you are missing only one last step, you have stopped.

You would like to go back, but you can't do it anymore.
You are in no man's land.

Go on! One more last step.

If what you have suggested here is true.....''have you not felt that you, really you, are at the origin of all things?''


Then my compassion has come from the realisation that I have completely fucked up by creating my reality.

And out of that compassion, my duty is to delete it and never allow it to happen ever again.

Yes, but isn't it evil what you have to erase?

You who take away the sins of the world...

But don't you have to become who you are to do that?
The only begotten child must return to the Father.

[iambiguous]

they're liars or mentally ill...but not wrong

To be wrong is to be in honest error, so no: they're not wrong. One lies (deceives), the other is a turnip (incapable).

Sure, I'll let others be satisfied with that distinction. You know, given that we can only actually be satisfied with being right or wrong about anything in sync with the only possible reality in the only possible world.

If that's true, of course.

On the other hand, assuming free will, when have you ever admitted to being wrong about anything? You're sort of stuck here...as are most objectivists. If you do admit that you were wrong about something like guns and abortion and free will, you are acknowledging that you may well be wrong about others things as well.

Right?

Note to others:

Again: how does he not project here as the caricature of the authoritarian objectivist?

The "cartoon character" blowhard I spoke of elsewhere:

"I said it, that settles it!!"

Guns, abortions, free will...everything.

Yep. Just. Like. You. (do you read your own posts?)

I challenge you to note something from a post of mine that, in regard to value judgments or the Big Questions, amounts to me insisting that just because I say something that makes it true.

I got no clue what you're askin'...so I'll take a guess and wing it (but I'll avoid bein' preachy): Reality is not a rudderless affair; there is a moral dimension; man is not just a hopped-up, turbo-charged, monkey

it embarrasses him not in the least to post things like this

Do you read your own posts?

Do you? In fact all you ever seem to do of late is to take "snippets" from them.

Though, sure, technically, let's try to pin down the exact definition and meaning of the word "crap". Let's then connect it to the world such that there can be no doubt that in regard to guns and abortions and free will other points of view either are or are not crap.

It comes out of your butt. It stinks. No one sensibly wants to touch it.

Odd. For someone obsessed with defining the meaning of words "logically", one would think you would jump at the opportunity to explain why technically those who don't share your own convictions regarding guns and abortions and free will are full of crap. Their assessments, in coming out of their butts, stink.

As an ethic: recognizin' and respectin' natural rights is perfect.

From the gun control thread:

Nope. It's natural rights, not constitutional rights.

Right, natural. Going back to the Deist God who created nature and those like you who through Reason are able to lay claim to the only logically and epistemological sound arguments that there are in regard to buying and selling bazookas.

Sure, the determinists have their experts, the libertarians their own. Just Google it. But here's the thing: nothing in the way of that Big Breakthrough such that the media around the globe are splashing those big bold headlines about the "free will question" finally being resolved:

"Deist God Proven To Have Implanted Free Will In Human Souls"

And free will must be a natural right because it is perfectly natural to believe that the Deist God created it for us mere mortals here on planet Earth. Who could possibly doubt that?!

Yes, do that. Ask are mind and brain the same? or are mind and brain two different things? .

Okay, but here how are we not back to this:

All of this going back to how the matter we call the human brain was "somehow" able to acquire autonomy when non-living matter "somehow" became living matter "somehow" became conscious matter "somehow" became self-conscious matter.

Then those here who actually believe that what they believe about all of this reflects, what, the ontological truth about the human condition itself?

Then those who are compelled in turn to insist on a teleological component as well. Usually in the form of one or another God.

Meanwhile, philosophers and scientists and theologians have been grappling with this profound mystery now for thousands of years.

Either in the only possible reality in the only possible world or of their own volition.

Connecting the ontological and teleological dots between the Deist God and mere mortals and brains and minds and Googling.

For example, beyond what you merely believe is true about it "in your head".

[Dontaskme]

Where does this compassion of yours come from?

You have come a long way, and now that you are missing only one last step, you have stopped.

You would like to go back, but you can't do it anymore.
You are in no man's land.

Go on! One more last step.

If what you have suggested here is true.....''have you not felt that you, really you, are at the origin of all things?''


Then my compassion has come from the realisation that I have completely fucked up by creating my reality.

And out of that compassion, my duty is to delete it and never allow it to happen ever again.

Yes, but isn't it evil what you have to erase?

You who take away the sins of the world...

But don't you have to become who you are to do that?
The only begotten child must return to the Father.

But I’m not the origin of all things. I cannot erase evil from the world, no more than I can destroy every single living creature on the planet including myself…and then know I’ve erased all evil from the face of the earth.


I cannot know I am the origin of all things just as I cannot know the state of “ non-existence “ ….so while there is conscious knowing..there will always be evil.

Do you see what I mean?

I really do not know what you are saying regarding the begotten son returning to the father, I’ve no idea what that’s supposed to mean at all.

[bobmax]

But I’m not the origin of all things. I cannot erase evil from the world, no more than I can destroy every single living creature on the planet including myself…and then know I’ve erased all evil from the face of the earth.

I cannot know I am the origin of all things just as I cannot know the state of “ non-existence “ ….so while there is conscious knowing..there will always be evil.

Do you see what I mean?

I really do not know what you are saying regarding the begotten son returning to the father, I’ve no idea what that’s supposed to mean at all.

You insist with knowledge...

While the question is being, not knowing.

What is the importance of knowing?
Knowledge is useful, indispensable, but only to go somewhere.
When you get there, knowledge is no longer needed, what matters is being.

The fact that you are at the origin of all things is not a knowledge. Because it's not something you can own.
To know we must in fact possess.

Instead here you are the one who is possessed.
And you are possessed with compassion.

You have noticed that you are thrown into the world.
But this observation is the starting point of your adventure, not the conclusion of a defeat.

Because once you observe this, you should ask yourself what is important then in this situation you are in.

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, you should try to get the Truth out of yourself.

This operation is usually very painful. Because it usually leads us to hell.

So observe that in reality there is only you.
There is no one else but you.
There is you and the world.

And the world ... is none other than the Father.

As long as you are there you are the only begotten child.

When you are gone, you will be the Father again

[Dontaskme]

But I’m not the origin of all things. I cannot erase evil from the world, no more than I can destroy every single living creature on the planet including myself…and then know I’ve erased all evil from the face of the earth.

I cannot know I am the origin of all things just as I cannot know the state of “ non-existence “ ….so while there is conscious knowing..there will always be evil.

Do you see what I mean?

I really do not know what you are saying regarding the begotten son returning to the father, I’ve no idea what that’s supposed to mean at all.

You insist with knowledge...

While the question is being, not knowing.

What is the importance of knowing?
Knowledge is useful, indispensable, but only to go somewhere.
When you get there, knowledge is no longer needed, what matters is being.

The fact that you are at the origin of all things is not a knowledge. Because it's not something you can own.
To know we must in fact possess.

Instead here you are the one who is possessed.
And you are possessed with compassion.

You have noticed that you are thrown into the world.
But this observation is the starting point of your adventure, not the conclusion of a defeat.

Because once you observe this, you should ask yourself what is important then in this situation you are in.

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, you should try to get the Truth out of yourself.

This operation is usually very painful. Because it usually leads us to hell.

So observe that in reality there is only you.
There is no one else but you.
There is you and the world.

And the world ... is none other than the Father.

As long as you are there you are the only begotten child.

When you are gone, you will be the Father again

I do not know what you are saying to me.


All I know is that pain hurts like hell, and I would not choose to create a world where people suffer the pain of being a sentient feeling living organism…it’s something Frankenstein would create ..not a rational thinking intelligence like conscious feeling organisms know from having to experience this knowledge via direct experience….knowing pain and suffering and then intentionally imposing it on others through procreation so that they too will know and feel it…is just a stupid unintelligent idea in my logic.

[henry quirk]

when have you ever admitted to being wrong about anything?

*In-forum, multiple times. In the Real World, multiple times.

*

If you do admit that you were wrong about something like guns and abortion and free will, you are acknowledging that you may well be wrong about others things as well.

Absolutely. As I said to you the first time you said all this: I could very well be wrong about everything. So: go ahead, show me I'm not a free will. Offer your string of evidences I have no natural rights.

Prove I have no right to my life, my liberty, my property. Prove my property is forfeit becuz of what other folks do with theirs.

Bring what's...

"in your head"

...to the table and make me see nihilism is the way.

Convince me I'm bio-automation just goin' through motions determined by yesterday.

Now, as you have before (remember?) you'll challenge me to prove my positions. I've offered you, and others, multiple times, the evidences that convince me, and, along with those evidences, I've always issued the caveat: **none of this may work for you.

See, unlike you with nihilism, I don't require you to believe what I do, or that you should be moved by what moves me. As long as you understand I do believe these things about myself and you, that I believe these things with, what is for me, good reason, then you can go and live as you like and I'll keep doin' the same.

Seems like a good deal to me. But not to you. It's imperative for folks like you that folks like me stop.

Why?

*

I challenge you to note something from a post of mine that, in regard to value judgments or the Big Questions, amounts to me insisting that just because I say something that makes it true.

In pretty every post you assert nihilism is the One, True, Way. Any one disagrees and you fulminate with the best of us.

*

In fact all you ever seem to do of late is to take "snippets" from them.

True. As I say: we've done all this before, multiple times (you may not remember but I do). So much of what you post is the same old, same old...which I've addressed...it's tiresome. So I snip: to reduce your redundancies and my boredom.

Also: I'm a minimalist. You and other wordy SOBs (hi, Alexis!) love to drone on and on and on. Mebbe if I were retired, or a shut-in, or just spent my life on-line I would transform into a forum-bloater. But I work, I'm raisin' a kid, and I have other interests. I keep it short & (I hope) substantial instead of long, repetitive, and fluffy.

*

Their assessments, in coming out of their butts, stink.

They do.

*

free will must be a natural right

Nope. A free will is what you are. You have a natural right to yourself; a natural right to your life, liberty, and property. And it's wrong for someone to take, hobble you in your use of, or direct your life, liberty, and property without just cause.




*with flash, with you, with others

**it's remarkable to me it doesn't...I assert you know you're a free will, know you have a natural right to your life, liberty, and property, and know it's wrong, as moral fact, for others to unjustly deprive you of life, liberty, and property...so, yeah, it's remarkable to me when folks like yourself argue you're robots with no natural claim to yourself

[Belinda]

Where does this compassion of yours come from?

You have come a long way, and now that you are missing only one last step, you have stopped.

You would like to go back, but you can't do it anymore.
You are in no man's land.

Go on! One more last step.

If what you have suggested here is true.....''have you not felt that you, really you, are at the origin of all things?''


Then my compassion has come from the realisation that I have completely fucked up by creating my reality.

And out of that compassion, my duty is to delete it and never allow it to happen ever again.

But DAM is not some isolated, sequestered mind floating around in nothing. DAM is set into an environment, including an environment of other people. After all it's unlikely DAM was reared since infancy by apes, wolves, or robots.

Therefore, DAM, you did not create your reality. Your undoubted compassion was inborn to some extent and nurtured by significant others around you.

Your feeling of and belief in duty is, like your compassion, maybe to some extent inborn but largely fostered by your environment in which you learned the concept of duty.

[BigMike]

All compatibilists should read the "No Free Will: But So Much More" book by Domenic Halvah. It sure clears up things a lot of things.

[bobmax]

Therefore, DAM, you did not create your reality. Your undoubted compassion was inborn to some extent and nurtured by significant others around you.

Your feeling of and belief in duty is, like your compassion, maybe to some extent inborn but largely fostered by your environment in which you learned the concept of duty.

But learning is never a receiving truth from someone else.

Rather, learning is an awakening, a becoming aware of the truth that is already within us.

And this we can see in an infant, everything is already in him.

No communication would be possible if it were a question of sending truths from one place where it is present in another where it does not yet exist.

Communication is instead an awakening of the truth that is already everywhere.

Do we really want to think that there is a truth here that is not already there?

Truth is Being itself!

Therefore compassion in DAM comes only from himself.
Because he is the origin of all things.
As are you.

[henry quirk]

All compatibilists should read the "No Free Will: But So Much More" book by Domenic Halvah. It sure clears up things a lot of things.

Dom, why do you dismiss free will (dismiss havin' or bein' one)?

[Iwannaplato]

All compatibilists should read the "No Free Will: But So Much More" book by Domenic Halvah. It sure clears up things a lot of things.

Dom, why do you dismiss free will (dismiss havin' or bein' one)?

A tack most free will defenders don't take is that even if determinism is true, it might be bad to believe it. So it ends up being a kind of virus.
https://theconversation.com/the-psychol ... will-97193
That article links to research showing that shifting from a belief into free will leads to a variety of anti-social behaviors.
More controversial (also covered in the article) is that people believing in free will may be happier.
Links for this also in the article.

[BigMike]

All compatibilists should read the "No Free Will: But So Much More" book by Domenic Halvah. It sure clears up things a lot of things.

Dom, why do you dismiss free will (dismiss havin' or bein' one)?

Because free will is simply not true. What is more, and much worse, is that it is the cause of most of the evil in the world today. Good people should shun it like fire, when they are first made aware of it. Only arrogantly wicked individuals refuse to even learn, let alone accept, the truth.