Philosophy

[Wizard22]

Response to Sy Borg (opc forum)

I advocate for an Objective analysis of Meaning of Life. Life is Biological. If a man's life is meaningful, then so too is an animal's, so too is a dog's, an alligator's, a zebra's, a turtle's, etc. Subjectivity is a main problem, addressing this question. A Nihilist believes, "because *MY* life has no meaning, then nobody else's has meaning either" or worse, that "all life has no meaning!!!" So Meaning of Life should not be judged according to the absolute Negative, to Annihilation. Why does the Nihilist make such a big fuss? Because s/he is completely Demoralized, Hopeless, Directionless, without a Goal, without a Purpose, etc.

Yet, Nihilism is important in the sense, that sometimes you need to stare into Darkness, before you seek-out the Light, so-to-speak. After you see the Meaning in nothingness, then you can begin to appreciate the Meaning in everythingness.


The Meaning of Life can be answered more pragmatically too... some great men in human history have led millions of other men, whole nations, to Victory. Sometimes this means war, take it for what you will. Great thinkers, scientists, philosophers...great athletes, these ones are most convincing about a "Meaning of Life", or worthwhile Purpose. Most of humanity aspires to greatness, to Heroes and Legends.

Why is Alexander the Great heralded for so many millenniums beyond his death? How about Jesus Christ? Plato? Take your pick.

In some examples, a Meaningful Life, a Purposeful Life, is more obvious than everybody else who settles for less, not to say that a Common or Average life is without meaning...but certainly lesser, no?

[Wizard22]

You are MISSING the point.

How so?

[Wizard22]

By "reality" do you just mean those aspects of the physical universe that a human being is capable of perceiving? Even if that is all you are asking, I am more curious about the nature of the answers you are hoping to get.

I believe that Reality includes existence, information, and data beyond one's senses. I call this "Objectivity". Most people only take their immediate consciousness, proximity, and opinionated beliefs as their "Reality", which is entirely Subjective, self-centered, and egotistical. One most attempt to go "beyond oneself", to enter into Philosophy, or Empiricism/Science for that matter.

[Harbal]

I believe that Reality includes existence, information, and data beyond one's senses. I call this "Objectivity". Most people only take their immediate consciousness, proximity, and opinionated beliefs as their "Reality", which is entirely Subjective, self-centered, and egotistical. One most attempt to go "beyond oneself", to enter into Philosophy, or Empiricism/Science for that matter.

We might think there must be an objective reality, but I don't see how we can ever fully know what it is. And even if it were possible to discover what it is, we will never be able to experience it. Scientific instruments can tell us that there are all sorts of things going on that we were hitherto completely unaware of, but knowing about them does not change the way we experience life.

[Wizard22]

I wouldn't use the word "meaningful" there. Some people make more impactful choices, find themselves in positions to make decisions that affect more people. I don't equate that with "meaning" personally. Some people end up in the history books, some don't. What was the meaning of Hitler's life, in your opinion?

Hitler's Meaning was very profound; he basically "impacted" the entire world, world history, you and me asking and answer this about him, right now, almost a Century later.

Most of Western Civilization claims that Hitler is Evil, because of his eradication of Jewry and International Cliques in Central Europe, who then primarily escaped and flooded into America in the 1940s. So, obviously, as Westerners, nobody must speak against this or have their livelihoods threatened.

[Wizard22]

We might think there must be an objective reality, but I don't see how we can ever fully know what it is. And even if it were possible to discover what it is, we will never be able to experience it. Scientific instruments can tell us that there are all sorts of things going on that we were hitherto completely unaware of, but knowing about them does not change the way we experience life.

We access "Objective" reality through logical deduction and inference.

For example, human senses have "blind-spots". So just because a ball leaves your field-of-vision, doesn't mean the ball becomes non-existent. If you ignore a ball thrown at you, your ignorance does not negate the ball coming at you. Closing your eyes isn't going to stop it. You have to treat Reality as Objective, by default. You "know" of things that you do not immediately perceive, which is why you move or catch the ball.

[Harbal]

For example, human senses have "blind-spots". So just because a ball leaves your field-of-vision, doesn't mean the ball becomes non-existent. If you ignore a ball thrown at you, your ignorance does not negate the ball coming at you. Closing your eyes isn't going to stop it. You have to treat Reality as Objective, by default. You "know" of things that you do not immediately perceive, which is why you move or catch the ball.

Okay, so what would going beyond that look like?

[Age]

You are MISSING the point.

How so?

I said, 'In the visible sense, God is thee Universe, Itself.

I NEVER said, 'God is ALL of the 'things', within thee Universe, Itself.

That is the point that you WERE missing here.

[Belinda]

We might think there must be an objective reality, but I don't see how we can ever fully know what it is. And even if it were possible to discover what it is, we will never be able to experience it. Scientific instruments can tell us that there are all sorts of things going on that we were hitherto completely unaware of, but knowing about them does not change the way we experience life.

We access "Objective" reality through logical deduction and inference.

For example, human senses have "blind-spots". So just because a ball leaves your field-of-vision, doesn't mean the ball becomes non-existent. If you ignore a ball thrown at you, your ignorance does not negate the ball coming at you. Closing your eyes isn't going to stop it. You have to treat Reality as Objective, by default. You "know" of things that you do not immediately perceive, which is why you move or catch the ball.

The ball was always "non-existent". Any existence the ball had depended on human ideas and perceptions. Perceptions are filters of possibilities and don't display reality to us.

[Flannel Jesus]

I wouldn't use the word "meaningful" there. Some people make more impactful choices, find themselves in positions to make decisions that affect more people. I don't equate that with "meaning" personally. Some people end up in the history books, some don't. What was the meaning of Hitler's life, in your opinion?

Hitler's Meaning was very profound; he basically "impacted" the entire world, world history, you and me asking and answer this about him, right now, almost a Century later.

Most of Western Civilization claims that Hitler is Evil, because of his eradication of Jewry and International Cliques in Central Europe, who then primarily escaped and flooded into America in the 1940s. So, obviously, as Westerners, nobody must speak against this or have their livelihoods threatened.

None of that indicates "meaning" to me. "Impact" and "meaning" are not synonyms as far as I'm concerned

[Wizard22]

Okay, so what would going beyond that look like?

Science for the most part,

Humans have developed tools to 'see' beyond our visible senses. So a tool can detect light at Ultraviolet or Infrared spectrums. The Hadron Collider just started revving up, discovering new information about sub-atomic particles. Humanity has a long record of Chemistry and Physics, new discoveries and inventions. With Physics, humans can run computations on phenomena that humans cannot directly interact with, for example with nuclear radiation, or deep space travel.

All of that is accessed through Deduction (Rationality/Logic) and acceptance of Objective Reality.


Perhaps these Objective approaches can be applied to Meaning, Purpose, Goals, Significance of Life. If they can, and I believe they can, then it lends large credence as to the Meaning of a particular life, or a society, compared to others, and that obviously (even through common sense) you and I can admit that some lives are more or less "Meaningful" than others.

A life wasted on drug-abuse, over-dosing in a ditch in an alleyway, never to be remembered or cared about by others...is that more or less meaningful?

Here's another question: why waste your Life?!? Life is precious, don't waste it, right??

[Wizard22]

I said, 'In the visible sense, God is thee Universe, Itself.

I NEVER said, 'God is ALL of the 'things', within thee Universe, Itself.

That is the point that you WERE missing here.

If God is "thee Universe, itself" then I interpret that as "all things". How do you mean it?

[Wizard22]

None of that indicates "meaning" to me. "Impact" and "meaning" are not synonyms as far as I'm concerned

A criminal may live a life of crime, robbing, attacking, generally brutalizing and assaulting others, and deem his life meaningful to him. Just because you or I objective to "his Meaning", doesn't overrule what he thinks or believes subjectively about himself, his morality, or his ethics. So you can call his life "impactful" instead of "meaningful", but that only side-steps the larger issue: how can lives be lived most meaningfully? If they even should be? Or can they be? Or what would it look like, exactly? Must it be, "morally good"?

[Age]

I believe that Reality includes existence, information, and data beyond one's senses. I call this "Objectivity". Most people only take their immediate consciousness, proximity, and opinionated beliefs as their "Reality", which is entirely Subjective, self-centered, and egotistical. One most attempt to go "beyond oneself", to enter into Philosophy, or Empiricism/Science for that matter.

We might think there must be an objective reality, but I don't see how we can ever fully know what it is.

How do you define 'objective reality', "harbal"?

And even if it were possible to discover what it is, we will never be able to experience it.

If you do NOT YET SEE how you could EVER FULLY KNOW what some 'thing' is, EXACTLY, then how do you ALREADY KNOW that you could NEVER experience that NOT YET KNOWN 'thing'?

Scientific instruments can tell us that there are all sorts of things going on that we were hitherto completely unaware of, but knowing about them does not change the way we experience life.

[Harbal]

Perhaps these Objective approaches can be applied to Meaning, Purpose, Goals, Significance of Life. If they can, and I believe they can, then it lends large credence as to the Meaning of a particular life, or a society,

But in order to get excited about it, or look forward to it, don't you have to have some concept of how our perception of reality might be changed?

Here's another question: why waste your Life?!? Life is precious, don't waste it, right??

If one person can happily spend his life playing computer games, and another needs to be making scientific breakthroughs at the cutting edge of physics to feel fulfilled, who is to say which life is more wasteful?